My draft opinions

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Angry Ram

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Damnit, I'm not denying his talent. It's the when he wants to go part. That's it. I won't get butthurt if he does get drafted by the Rams, he's the guy I just want to least want to be seen drafted b/c of said issues. I feel the either one of the 2 tackles or Sammy Watkins can upgrade positions of weakness/uncertainty and the Rams have a need for, w/o worrying about effort.
 

jrry32

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Damnit, I'm not denying his talent. It's the when he wants to go part. That's it. I won't get butthurt if he does get drafted by the Rams, he's the guy I just want to least want to be seen drafted b/c of said issues. I feel the either one of the 2 tackles or Sammy Watkins can upgrade positions of weakness/uncertainty and the Rams have a need for, w/o worrying about effort.

My personal preference is a trade down but if we stay at #2, imo, we can't pass on that sort of talent.
 

RamFan503

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I'm not saying we should draft Clowney. I just don't buy the idea that he is going to take plays off in the NFL - nor do I think that one play you posted is all anyone sees in him. He has a pretty significant body of work.

I do think he would have a far greater positive impact for us than Watkins though. I just don't see anything more than good prospect when I watch Sammy play. Maybe I'm wrong. If we draft him I sure as hell hope I am.
 

PhxRam

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I dont buy for one second that guys like Quinn, JL, Long would let some rook come in and dog it.
 

jrry32

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I dont buy for one second that guys like Quinn, JL, Long would let some rook come in and dog it.

Agreed. And all his former players say that Gregg Williams doesn't allow the same. You either buy in and play your heart out or he rides you and benches you.
 

LesBaker

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Agreed. And all his former players say that Gregg Williams doesn't allow the same. You either buy in and play your heart out or he rides you and benches you.

And what then if that happened?
 

RamFan503

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And what then if that happened?
What then if that happened with anyone? All this talk of not being a hard worker is being generated from Spurrier saying he isn't AS great of a work out machine as Latimore and then teams doing everything in their power to take him out of games? I'm not on the draft Clowney train but I also think there is a bit of tear down mentality going on around the media and it filters down to fan boards.
 

Alan

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jrry32 with these thoughts:
And that's really something that's misrepresented. People assume that because 95% of coaches talk in circles and say nothing but platitudes(coach talk) that if a coach says something negative, it must mean more than it does. But that's just Spurrier.

The guy has ripped his own starting QBs a new arsehole. He's ripped his own OL and OL Coach. He's ripped his offense. That's who he is. He's blunt and a little too candid to the media.

And Spurrier really didn't say anything bad. So yea, I think that's making a mountain out of a molehill.

My point, though, isn't so much that it can be flipped...only that Sammy Watkins has warts on his character that people are all too eager to overlook. And I like Watkins. I just think the people are giving Clowney way too much grief.
Does that make it any less effective?

As for your point, I already agreed that Watkins character concerns should receive a little more scrutiny. Possibly Clowney's should receive a little less but it's that time of year where all things get magnified to provide the talking heads with material to talk about. Having said that, I totally disagree with your contention that Watkins foibles are in the same ballpark as those of Clowney. I'm talking from a performance standpoint here. Watkins less than fantastic stats in the middle of his college career can easily be explained away in terms that don't involve questions about his abilities on the field. Clowney's lack of production can't be explained away so easily and the comments from his coach are only a tiny molehill the equation. That's the problem. His lack of production last year brings into question just how good is he. Those questions don't exist when talking about Watkins.
 

bwdenverram

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I think what most are saying is Clowney has had many people (coaches, media or other) that have questioned his work ethic.
Now, NONE of us know what that will mean in the NFL, but it is a concern. We all have our preferences on who is drafted. But I would bet we all will be happy and support whoever we do end up taking. I'll trust Fisher and Snead will do what is best for the team. Thus far I think they have done a great job.

I know I'll support Clowney, Watkins, Robinson, Matthews or whoever we take.
 

RamFan503

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Does that make it any less effective?

As for your point, I already agreed that Watkins character concerns should receive a little more scrutiny. Possibly Clowney's should receive a little less but it's that time of year where all things get magnified to provide the talking heads with material to talk about. Having said that, I totally disagree with your contention that Watkins foibles are in the same ballpark as those of Clowney. I'm talking from a performance standpoint here. Watkins less than fantastic stats in the middle of his college career can easily be explained away in terms that don't involve questions about his abilities on the field. Clowney's lack of production can't be explained away so easily and the comments from his coach are only a tiny molehill the equation. That's the problem. His lack of production last year brings into question just how good is he. Those questions don't exist when talking about Watkins.
No but questions about his ability to translate to elite at the NFL level do.
 

Alan

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RamFan503 with this:
No but questions about his ability to translate to elite at the NFL level do.
That's true of every player in the draft isn't it?
 

RamFan503

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That's true of every player in the draft isn't it?
Yes but was lesser with other prospects. A 6'1" receiver with less than elite speed and some drop issues in his history doesn't excite me personally unless we already had the line that could allow him to flourish. Add to that a bust for performance enhancing drugs.... I think there are significant questions - not just the "no guarantee" reservation.

Of course I reserve the right to love the guy and everything he could bring if we draft him.
 

Memphis Ram

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Yes but was lesser with other prospects. A 6'1" receiver with less than elite speed and some drop issues in his history doesn't excite me personally unless we already had the line that could allow him to flourish. Add to that a bust for performance enhancing drugs.... I think there are significant questions - not just the "no guarantee" reservation.

Of course I reserve the right to love the guy and everything he could bring if we draft him.

Watkins was a very good college player. Yet, I'm still amazed that a kid who caught 70% of his receptions within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage (http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46006/349/peshek-top-4-wr-metrics), and rarely saw press coverage (from what I've seen) has so blindly been accepted as the next great NFL WR. And that some want the Rams to use a top 6 or so selection at the position in what many consider one of the DEEEPEST WR draft classes in years.(n)
 

Memphis Ram

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I dont buy for one second that guys like Quinn, JL, Long would let some rook come in and dog it.

I don't either. Just like Vermiel didn't let Kevin Carter loaf (Same work ethic rep coming out).

Unless Spurrier changed, that just doesn't sound like what he had in South Carolina.

"Because Spurrier was so hands-off on defense, it got to the point where guys on defense were doing whatever the heck they wanted to do," Hasselbeck said. "You had LaVar Arrington freelancing and Jeremiah Trotter doing his own thing. I think they even tried to bench Bruce Smith at one point because he wasn't the same player, but [Smith] went above Spurrier and started the following week.

"Spurrier definitely has a reputation for being laid-back and relaxed and not having a whole bunch of rules," Hasselbeck said. "You'd have guys with their cell phones going off in the meetings, and there wouldn't be any consequences. That kind of thing permeates the whole culture being created in a bunch of different areas.

"Coaches who are successful in creating a comfortable environment also know what boundaries to set up, and I don't know that any boundaries were ever set up when I was there.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...ulture-contributed-steve-spurrier-failure-nfl
 

Alan

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RamFan503 with this:
Yes but was lesser with other prospects.
That's a very subjective view on your point isn't it? You see so many things you like about him that you've come to the conclusion that he's very low risk. That conclusion isn't unique to you in that every GM has to think that way about every player they draft or they wouldn't draft them. Still, everyone has their own unique assessment for each player.
How's the can't miss Aaron Curry doing? The concerns about Watkins remind me of the concerns about Stedman. There are so few college programs that run a program that mimics the NFL that questions will abound about virtually every player.

At least that's what I think. :coffee: ;)
 

Username

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Which is why it's kind of funny to me. Lets flip the script, lets say Clowney had his "down" year as a sophomore and his dominant year as a junior.(flip his sophomore and junior years) Whereas Watkins has his dominant year as a sophomore and his subpar year as a junior(flip his sophomore and junior years), do you think that Watkins would be getting the same treatment as Clowney?

IMO, yes. Clowney didn't even get arrested and suspended. So it's weird to me how people never question Watkins's character but believe Clowney will be some mega bust. Like I said earlier, I think if you flipped the script, people would be saying the same thing about Watkins while not questioning Clowney's character. Victims of the moment.

I think Watkins "issues" are less of a problem with the gen pop simply because they happened in the past, and he's had a year to prove he's obviously matured. Clowneys issues are currently ongoing. To me he's just got a slight prima donna attitude right now. His work ethic is more of a worry than his character to me. Something imo that would be more of a long term concern than anything.

To me neither has "character issues" that would bother me to the point of not drafting them.
 

RamFan503

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"Alan - trying to pigeon hole my argument pontificates with]That's a very subjective view on your point isn't it? You see so many things you like about him that you've come to the conclusion that he's very low risk. That conclusion isn't unique to you in that every GM has to think that way about every player they draft or they wouldn't draft them. Still, everyone has their own unique assessment for each player.
How's the can't miss Aaron Curry doing? The concerns about Watkins remind me of the concerns about Stedman. There are so few college programs that run a program that mimics the NFL that questions will abound about virtually every player.

At least that's what I think. :coffee: ;)

I haven't come to the conclusion that Clowney is very low risk any more than someone like Watkins.

And why you wanna dis my boy AC. He was a perfect waste of Seattle's first pick.
 

Alan

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RamFan503 hitting me when I'm only partially armed:
I haven't come to the conclusion that Clowney is very low risk any more than someone like Watkins.

Well it's that time of the night but I'll do my best. :LOL:

"Yes but was lesser with other prospects." Who are the other prospects you mentioned? I assumed you were talking in general and mentioned Curry as an example of "other prospects". One man's garbage is another man's fertilizer.

That was too bad the Seahags wasted their 1st rounder wasn't it. :ROFLMAO:
 

jjab360

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Which is why it's kind of funny to me. Lets flip the script, lets say Clowney had his "down" year as a sophomore and his dominant year as a junior.(flip his sophomore and junior years) Whereas Watkins has his dominant year as a sophomore and his subpar year as a junior(flip his sophomore and junior years), do you think that Watkins would be getting the same treatment as Clowney?

IMO, yes. Clowney didn't even get arrested and suspended. So it's weird to me how people never question Watkins's character but believe Clowney will be some mega bust. Like I said earlier, I think if you flipped the script, people would be saying the same thing about Watkins while not questioning Clowney's character. Victims of the moment.
If you switch Watkins' sophomore and junior years, he'd be getting the same treatment as Marqise Lee or worse right now.