Morning Ram-blings; a trade missed

  • To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

CGI_Ram

Hamburger Connoisseur
Moderator
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
48,150
Name
Burger man
http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/4561/morning-ram-blings-a-trade-missed

By Nick Wagoner

EARTH CITY, Mo. -- In the two NFL drafts since general manager Les Snead and coach Jeff Fisher have handled the reins for the St. Louis Rams, they've proved adept at manipulating the selection process with timely trades. They've moved up and down the draft board with equal aplomb, more often than not coming out for the better on the other end.

Time will tell if all of those moves will be winners and it's much too soon to declare any picks either a success or a bust. Early returns indicate the biggest trade of the 2012 NFL draft in which the Rams dealt the No. 2 pick to Washington is going to pay big dividends. But almost two seasons later, there's one deal the Rams made that already looks to be heavily tilted against them.

With the Rams heading to Seattle for Sunday's season finale, this would seem a good time to look back at the trade the Rams made that hasn't worked out. After the Rams traded with Washington, they moved back again from No. 6 to No. 14 in a trade with Dallas. St. Louis received the Cowboys' second-round pick, No. 45 overall, to make that move.

When the Rams came on the clock for the third time in the second round and with defensive tackle Michael Brockers, receiver Brian Quick and cornerback Janoris Jenkins already in tow, they decided to recoup the fifth-round pick they'd given up in a 2011 deal with Denver to get receiver Brandon Lloyd.

In need of a linebacker, the Rams had hosted Bobby Wagner and Mychal Kendricks as part of their 30 pre-draft visits. Both were on the board when the Rams came up at No. 45. Instead of making the pick, the Rams dealt it to Chicago to move down to No. 50 and get back that fifth-round selection.

Before the Rams could make their pick, Philadelphia grabbed Kendricks at No. 46 and Seattle followed by nabbing Wagner at No. 47. Just like that, two possible targets at a position of need were off the board. Making matters worse, Chicago used the pick obtained from St. Louis to draft emerging star wideout Alshon Jeffery. Not that the Rams had expressed much interest in Jeffery or that they were certain to take one of the linebackers, but the move has been a miss for them so far.

At No. 50, the Rams ended up drafting running back Isaiah Pead, who contributes on special teams but otherwise hasn't done much worthy of a second-round pick and used the fifth-round selection on guard Rokevious Watkins. Watkins has already been released and is currently with the Kansas City Chiefs.

Wagner will start at middle linebacker for Seattle on Sunday and has already emerged as one of the league's best young linebackers. The Rams have since added rookie linebacker Alec Ogletree, giving them a rising star at the position as well.

It'd be unfair to expect any regime to have a perfect track record when it comes to the draft but it's understandable if Rams fans watch Wagner on Sunday and wonder what could have been.
 

Alan

Legend
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
9,766
Hindsight.

But.

I think the percentages are stacked against you when you trade down high in the draft just to get a 5th round selection who will have little chance of being a good pick.

Horrible math IMO. I would never have done it. I would probably have just gone ahead and made a horrible pick.:lol:
 

PhxRam

Guest
Hindsight.

But.

I think the percentages are stacked against you when you trade down high in the draft just to get a 5th round selection who will have little chance of being a good pick.

Horrible math IMO. I would never have done it. I would probably have just gone ahead and made a horrible pick.:lol:

I agree..

Unless another RGIII trade comes along, I am staying put.
 

CGI_Ram

Hamburger Connoisseur
Moderator
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
48,150
Name
Burger man
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
Every draft is filled with hindsight selections.

There is not a single perfect GM out there. None.

The key is to hit on most, and accept there will be misses.
 

V3

Hall of Fame
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
3,848
All I'll say is that it isn't hindsight if on draft day you believe something and it turns out to be true. That's what gets me.
 

PhxRam

Guest
All I'll say is that it isn't hindsight if on draft day you believe something and it turns out to be true. That's what gets me.

And if it turns out to be wrong?

In hindsight you would have not made that pick.
 

Thordaddy

Binding you with ancient logic
Joined
Apr 5, 2012
Messages
10,462
Name
Rich
At the time we needed bodies because we knew the bodies we had weren't worth keeping,I got no issues with the logic, that 5th round choice the next year turned out to be Zac Stacy,and FWIW some people who are panning the trade down in this thread panned the trade up for Stacy,which is why I am not fond of these hindsight threads
 

Alan

Legend
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
9,766
PhxRam possibly misunderstanding my stance:
I agree..

Unless another RGIII trade comes along, I am staying put.

I think you might have misunderstood what I was trying to say. Or I just wrote it badly. Or both.:D

I want to trade down. I just don't believe in trading down to pick up a low round pick. Trading our 1st or 2nd round pick with the Browns to get an extra 1st rounder or an extra 2nd and 3rd rounder would be fine with me. I don't see any player that would be picked with the first 5 selections I can't live without.

Trading down with a high pick (1-3 round) just to get a 5th rounder is the height of folly IMO. 1st thru 3rd rounders have a large chance of being successful picks while a 5th rounder (with exceptions like Zac:D) usually isn't worth squat. I would never pass up a player you like just to get a low round pick. Maybe a 4th rounder, depending on other variables but never a 5th.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Thordaddy

Binding you with ancient logic
Joined
Apr 5, 2012
Messages
10,462
Name
Rich
And bets are since they only traded down 5 spots they had five players ranked as tossups and maybe even none of the guys mentioned they "missed on"
 

V3

Hall of Fame
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
3,848
And if it turns out to be wrong?

In hindsight you would have not made that pick.

If I wanted a player during the draft and they turn out to be bad, I'll admit to it. It's NOT hindsight if you see something in a player that suggests they'll be very good and then they go on to be that. If it was all hindsight then what is the point of scouts? Just have a monkey pick pictures of the players if it's all hindsight.

I'm not saying this to toot my own horn. I'm saying it because it's beyond frustrating when a stupid fan like me can see certain things about prospects that the Rams don't. I wanted Levonte David but would have been fine with Wagner or Kendricks. David was still available even after the trade down.
 

Thordaddy

Binding you with ancient logic
Joined
Apr 5, 2012
Messages
10,462
Name
Rich
Yeah and all this "miss talk" ignores things like systems players are fits for and in Wagners case he plays 8 games a year against offences that can't audible,these analyses carry an all things equal assumption that just don't hold true
 

PhxRam

Guest
If I wanted a player during the draft and they turn out to be bad, I'll admit to it. It's NOT hindsight if you see something in a player that suggests they'll be very good and then they go on to be that. If it was all hindsight then what is the point of scouts? Just have a monkey pick pictures of the players if it's all hindsight.

I'm not saying this to toot my own horn. I'm saying it because it's beyond frustrating when a stupid fan like me can see certain things about prospects that the Rams don't. I wanted Levonte David but would have been fine with Wagner or Kendricks. David was still available even after the trade down.

Well I am not much of a GM myself.

I thought Indy made a HUGE mistake in taking Manning over Leaf.
 

V3

Hall of Fame
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
3,848
Well I am not much of a GM myself.

I thought Indy made a HUGE mistake in taking Manning over Leaf.

Yeah, I hadn't gotten into the draft yet at that point. Certain positions are easier to judge also, IMO. QB can be tough. I have no idea what I would have said on that one. I think I'm probably worst at judging OT's. I thought Smith was going to be good. :rofl: See, I totally admit to that blunder. lol
 

PhxRam

Guest
Yeah, I hadn't gotten into the draft yet at that point. Certain positions are easier to judge also, IMO. QB can be tough. I have no idea what I would have said on that one. I think I'm probably worst at judging OT's. I thought Smith was going to be good. :rofl: See, I totally admit to that blunder. lol

I don't remember the Rams getting to much grief for selecting Smith at that time.

One thing no scout/gm can measure is heart and desire.

Look at honey badger this year. By all measurables to small to make it in the NFL. I would take that dude in a second now after watching him compete.
 

max

Hall of Fame
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
3,010
Name
max
The trade wasn't as bad as the pick.

They could have taken Lavonte David instead of pead. David was on the board at 50.
 

iced

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
6,620
love how everyone plays the hindsight card when talking about Alshon Jeffrey...

yet the clearly most talented receiver that everyone could have had was Josh gordon (supplemental draft, 2nd rounder) - no ones playing that hindsight card lol