Mason and Ireland on Case Keenum

[Kentuckyrams]

That's my concern - we gave up so much for Goff, but will we have an offense that makes that worthwhile? It's sort of like why buy a luxury sports car if you only plan on going 25 mph on a dirt road?

 

[wolfdogg]

I liked what I saw goff do in the first (Preseason) series against the best d in football. Marched right down and made a big boy throw for a td in Denver. He's probably more comfortable than that now and i'd like to see him start against Tampa. If he can't hang in the first half then put Case in for the 2nd half and let the d save the day. I don't see goff doing any worse, and I'm thinking he'd be better then keenum, based on what goff has done with the the starters.

 

[wmc540]

I liked what I saw goff do in the first (Preseason) series against the best d in football. Marched right down and made a big boy throw for a td in Denver. He's probably more comfortable than that now and i'd like to see him start against Tampa. If he can't hang in the first half then put Case in for the 2nd half and let the d save the day. I don't see goff doing any worse, and I'm thinking he'd be better then keenum, based on what goff has done with the the starters.

Pulling a rookie QB after a half isn't probably the greatest thing you can do for his psyche.

 

[Ramlock]

That's my concern - we gave up so much for Goff, but will we have an offense that makes that worthwhile? It's sort of like why buy a luxury sports car if you only plan on going 25 mph on a dirt road?

My experience with luxury sports cars is that there is a break-in period.

Until my car reaches 2000 miles, I keep it under 4500 rpm as directed.

You want to hit the power band after the car has tempered a bit.

http://www.porscheownersmanuals.com/2014-macan/11/5-30767/Brake-pads-Breaking-in-new-brake-pads

 

[Angry Ram]

Ok but Keenum does have 2 int on the season so I don't think the mistake free card belongs in his deck.

True, although one was a batted ball into the air. Not entirely his fault. His other one was bad.

Keenum was pretty awful, and has been for two games now.

Not on Sunday. His numbers would've been better if Kenny didnt drop that 3rd down and Lance kept his feet in. He had a good game Sunday.

I like the guy, but inaccurate passes have hurt us, small size has hurt us, and taking sacks that he could have thrown away almost cost us the game yesterday (took us out of field goal range, and shortened our drives).

It's hard to just throw the ball away when you are in the defenders arms almost immediately after the ball is snapped. Not his fault.

The system and playcalling is also bad, so it's not all on Keenum.

Well, when all else fails....

 

[jrry32]

I think Keenum did an overall good job yesterday, however, there easily could have been one or two pick 6's. One in particular was that screen pass to Austin(?) that bounced off of his stone hands into the air, between two Hawk defenders....It was pure luck we didn't get killed on that one...and even though it wasn't in Keenum's power to stop his WR from creating a jump ball, Keenum would have been blamed for the turn over and the lost game. There would be pro-Goffers in here crucifying pro-Keenumers....lol

I doubt it. The "pro-Goffers" also watch the game. They'd recognize that mistake was on Austin.

 

[jrry32]

I have read this before and I don't get it. What specifically do you mean Keenum can't stretch the field? Did he not throw a 40 yard pass down the left sideline to Kendricks yesterday?

Not taking sides in the Keenum versus Goff debate. Just stating that when the Rams run a play-action pass and a receiver runs down the field, Keenum has the arm strength to get the ball there.

To me, it's the offensive philosophy. If you put Goff in the game, are the Rams all of sudden going to start throwing the ball 30 - 40 yards downfield every other time they throw the ball? I don't think so. I was at camp in Irvine for 5 or 6 of the 11-on-11 practices and a majority of the time the passes go to short and intermediate routes.

Keenum can throw a deep ball. They are less about arm strength than they are about touch and accuracy. Keenum's biggest issue is throwing into tight windows in the intermediate range, especially outside the numbers. His passes float. He just doesn't throw with a lot of zip.

But for me, arm strength isn't the big problem with Keenum. It's his inconsistent accuracy, issues with field vision, and struggles with the blitz.

 

[jrry32]

True, although one was a batted ball into the air. Not entirely his fault. His other one was bad.

Generally, I'd say that's true. On that one, I disagree. He tried to force it into a window with four defenders lurking and no throwing lane. It was a bad read and resulted in exactly what you'd expect to happen.

Not on Sunday. His numbers would've been better if Kenny didnt drop that 3rd down and Lance kept his feet in. He had a good game Sunday.

I'd point more to the Austin drop. It looked like there was something there on that play. Can't blame Lance for that play. Can't blame Case either. He made a great throw. It just wasn't a catch that could be made. Lance did everything he could.

It's hard to just throw the ball away when you are in the defenders arms almost immediately after the ball is snapped. Not his fault.

I think he's talking about the sack on the naked boot where Keenum stopped rather than continuing his boot and throwing it away. Might also be talking about the sack near the end of the game where Keenum held it too long on 3rd and 17.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

So does that mean that putting in Goff would or wouldn't change the offense? Would it just be more Fisherball? And if that's the case (no pun intended), then why give up so much for Goff?

Fisher loves what Goff can do, but has no intention of letting him do it, or at least that is my biggest fear.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Keenum almost had two pick sixes in this pre season. But with that said, he didn't do anything yesterday "to lose this game" with our awesome Ds balls out playing. But he can't stretch the field and Gurley is getting smacked at the line of scrimmage on every dam play. If Gurley can get past the first line of D he can be a home run hitter, and that is going to win games, not Keenum. Hurry up Goff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With Wilson's uncanny knack for game winning drives, I'd say the defense saved the game, and made Keenum's bad sacks seem less glaring.

I have read this before and I don't get it. What specifically do you mean Keenum can't stretch the field? Did he not throw a 40 yard pass down the left sideline to Kendricks yesterday?

Not taking sides in the Keenum versus Goff debate. Just stating that when the Rams run a play-action pass and a receiver runs down the field, Keenum has the arm strength to get the ball there.

To me, it's the offensive philosophy. If you put Goff in the game, are the Rams all of sudden going to start throwing the ball 30 - 40 yards downfield every other time they throw the ball? I don't think so. I was at camp in Irvine for 5 or 6 of the 11-on-11 practices and a majority of the time the passes go to short and intermediate routes.

There is no zip on his passes. They take too long to get there and require a lot of separation. Against San Francisco, Case had a few opportunities to throw a pass into a tight window and he couldn't do it. Th a is a glaring weakness in a close game IMO.

Keenum can throw a deep ball. They are less about arm strength than they are about touch and accuracy. Keenum's biggest issue is throwing into tight windows in the intermediate range, especially outside the numbers. His passes float. He just doesn't throw with a lot of zip.

But for me, arm strength isn't the big problem with Keenum. It's his inconsistent accuracy, issues with field vision, and struggles with the blitz.

For me it is all of those things and arm strength.

 

[RamFan503]

Gentlemen, regardless of how you spin it, Keenum is still the girl with a great personality.

Um... She's pretty hot. Thinking that's a bad example.

 

[shaunpinney]

With regards to Case taking sacks and NOT throwing it away, that may be the gameplan, take the sack, punt on 4th not risk it by throwing and being intercepted - I seem to recall alex smith saying that was the way things were in SF

 

[FrankenRam]

I think Keenum did an overall good job yesterday, however, there easily could have been one or two pick 6's. .....

Sooooo....., now CK is getting dinged because what could have happened.(??) Not what did......what could have? Seriously?!?!

 

[LumberTubs]

I thought Keenum had a massively improved game this week over last week. He was throwing down field more (and being asked to throw down field more so credit to Boras too) and with success yet the running game still didn't get going and, until it does, drives will falter and the offense won't get many TDs.

Teams will watch what we did on Sunday and realise that we can throw the ball somewhere other than horizontally to Austin and will surely have to start respecting that which will mean fewer players stacking the box surely? I know it wasn't Drew Brees wearing 17 in blue and yellow on Sunday but it has to be enough to back them off a bit.

We'll see how Tampa Bay approach the game. I've read that their pass D is poor so Keenum should have some success (he'll have to cus I've also read that their run D is good).

 

[den-the-coach]

Um... She's pretty hot. Thinking that's a bad example.

At our age, they are all hot,,,,Anyway it was the GIF and for the record I liked her better as a blond or maybe it was that elf costume.

 

[fearsomefour]

Maybe some offensive designs are designed around a players abilities.

That would be called coaching....

 

[fearsomefour]

Pulling a rookie QB after a half isn't probably the greatest thing you can do for his psyche.

I never bought this stuff. You always hear it but I don't buy it. Any other position there are not these concerns. Switch out a RB or Onlineman and there is no hang wringing about his confidence. What this narrative is really about is prep reps for a QB. By default the starter gets the lion share of reps.
If going in and then out is going to shatter him he was never going to make it anyway.

 

[Bruce2980]

No idea what you're implying.

John Elway was not placed in a dink and dunk offense because he could thread a needle by throwing a laser 50 + yards in the air placing the ball in the face of his receiver in between two defenders, so the horizontal bop football offense was not going to fit his talents. Keenum would not have performed in that offense and would have been picked off twenty times a game trying to do that. So an intelligent coach would call plays that Keenum could make, and that is because we have a guy that "can't stretch the field." And to me that means getting defenses out of the 8 and 9 men in the box. When Elway faced that type of defense it was on an all out blitz and he made them pay big time for it. I don't see defenses respecting Keenum or his arm strength and they won't because they know that Gurley will beat them for a touchdown long before Kennums arm will. Without checking stats I bet Gurley has had longer touchdown runs that Keenum has had touchdown passes. And those stats that you put up were including RAC and YAC. I bet Keenums passes in the air were much shorter than what in on the stat sheets.

 

[fearsomefour]

You guys kill me.
Goff will start in time. Maybe because he is completely ready and maybe by default.
A couple of things.....
Goff averaged a pic or fumble about every 10 pass plays during the preseason. Those are relatively low pressure snaps vs mostly vanilla defenses. He also did some very nice things. But, I don't see how anyone could have watched him in the preseason and think he was ready to leave the nest. That said, he did improve as the preseason progressed.
Arm strength has little to do with throwing deep. Throwing a 40 or 50 yards ball is very unimpressive for an NFL or college QB. Most passes are short by comparison. Getting the ball out on time to the right receiver in a small window....sometimes into a portion of the window (throwing a guy open or not getting him grt laid out) is key. Most deep balls are rainbows thrown to an area, a bucket so to speak that the WR runs to. My son can throw a football 60 yards.....big deal.
Arm strength shows up throwing that 20 to 25 yard out, fitting the ball into tight coverages and being able to recover quickly and get the ball to secondary guys or on the run. That out pattern is a real indicator of arm strength. The ball is going downfield 20 yards, let's say, but if it is thrown from the middle of the field it is also traveling 25 or so yards out to the side and has to be thrown flat and hard, can't float that one.
Case probably does not have the arm strength to complete that throw. This is why the Rams run short out patterns. Keenum will have most of his success in the middle of the field, this is why it was nice to see the Rams run some intermediate stuff Sunday. There is risk with these throws of course....traffic. Keenum has to have a good mental game, reading Ds, finding secondary guys and getting rid of the ball quickly, because he doesn't have the physical gifts to improvise (see Aaron Rodgers).
Goff certainly has the arm strength that Keenum does not.
But, the other things aren't there yet. How close is he? Only the coaches know. His progress during the preseason I take as a positive sign.
Important things a QB needs....
Mental efficiency....knowing the D, reading blitzes and hot reads, knowing the secondary targets ect.
Vision, see above
Quick release, this is what makes pocket passers like Brady, Warner and Marino so hard to defeat with pass rush. The quick compact release combined with smarts, vision and fearlessness.....look out.
Lastly is arm strength. Plays are designed to happen quickly and usually to minimize risk. If a guy is always relying on his arm strength to bail him out....well, not good.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

My experience with luxury sports cars is that there is a break-in period.

Until my car reaches 2000 miles, I keep it under 4500 rpm as directed.

You want to hit the power band after the car has tempered a bit.

http://www.porscheownersmanuals.com/2014-macan/11/5-30767/Brake-pads-Breaking-in-new-brake-pads

I get this 100%
But you are still driving your Porsche under 2000 miles -- you need to drive the damn thing 2000 miles to get it to where you can let loose a bit

GOFF - zero miles

We need to put this guy in NOW and get break-in period over and done