Marcus Mariota: Everything’s There But the Fire

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NJRamsFan

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The Rams defense would suck ass without the RGme trade. We'd have half the talent and a chicken legged QB who cant read a defense. His injuries are actually proof that massive gifts of picks to land a unknown NFL player is a horrible idea. I'd bet the Redskins would give up their one playoff run in which they never stood a chance to take that trade back.
I actually wrote a long response to this and deleted it because im fairly certain you didnt read my post.

-While I dont agree the rams d would "suck ass" without the RG3 trade it definitely helped us...but how is that related to what I said?
-I never suggested we should have or would have drafted RG3 so us having a chicken legged qb who cant read a defense comes out of left field
-His injuries don't PROVE anything. Just an unfortunate turn of events like any other injury.
-Hindsight being 20/20...Of course the Redskins wouldn't have made the trade for RG3 had they known he would suffer injuries the way he has. That's not exactly a profound thought. I do maintain that minus the injuries the Redskins would still trade every player we received as compensation for a healthy franchise leading RG3
 
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LesBaker

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I actually wrote a long response to this and deleted it because im fairly certain you didnt read my post.

-While I dont agree the rams d would "suck ass" without the RG3 trade it definitely helped us...but how is that related to what I said?
-I never suggested we should have or would have drafted RG3 so us having a chicken legged qb who cant read a defense comes out of left field
-His injuries don't PROVE anything. Just an unfortunate turn of events like any other injury.
-Hindsight being 20/20...Of course the Redskins wouldn't have made the trade for RG3 had they known he would suffer injuries the way he has. That's not exactly a profound thought. I do maintain that minus the injuries the Redskins would still trade every player we received as compensation for a healthy franchise leading RG3

I dunno.......if you had a chance to get Brockers, Jenkins, Ogletree, Bailey, Stacey and Robinson for a healthy Griffin wouldn't you make that trade? Thats a lot of talent to get for just one guy IMO. And you have to add Austin to the list I think because without the extra picks they may not have moved up.
 

NJRamsFan

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I dunno.......if you had a chance to get Brockers, Jenkins, Ogletree, Bailey, Stacey and Robinson for a healthy Griffin wouldn't you make that trade? Thats a lot of talent to get for just one guy IMO. And you have to add Austin to the list I think because without the extra picks they may not have moved up.
I don't think its about rather have in this scenario. IMO with a healthy RG3 this is a true win/win scenario. I'm saying I don't think Washington looks back if RG3 doesn't get hurt.
 

Irish

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I dunno.......if you had a chance to get Brockers, Jenkins, Ogletree, Bailey, Stacey and Robinson for a healthy Griffin wouldn't you make that trade? Thats a lot of talent to get for just one guy IMO. And you have to add Austin to the list I think because without the extra picks they may not have moved up.
You can't really make the comparison because it leaves several factors out:

1) Picks are worthless unless the guy making the picks is worth a damn. No guarantee those players would be picked with those picks had the Redskins held them. On top of all of that, add those players to the Redskins roster now and substitute Cousins for RG3. Is that team automatically a better team than the Eagles? I don't think so.

2) Prospects and talent are almost worthless if your key cogs aren't in place. This means Quarterback, Left Tackle, Either #1 WR or RB, Pass Rusher, and Shut down CB. Outside of Robinson, none of those selected players really fit the mold, so you are kind of spinning your wheels.

3) RG3, when healthy, is worth more to a team than all of those players mentioned above put together. His scrambling makes offensive linemen's jobs easier, his passing ability makes his WRs better (imagine Brian Quick and Kenny Britt replacing Pierre Garcon and 2014 Deseasn Jackson), and his grasp of the read option makes an above average Alfred Morris a star.

4) No guarantee RG3 is as injured playing for Jeff Fisher. He certainly would not have been rushed back for the playoff game.

5) RG3, when healthy, is not a guy, he is a star. Put him on a team starving for star talent (Rams) and it would have changed the fortune and the course of a franchise forever.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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Great in college doesn't mean great in the NFL. I have read and agree with some scouts that say he is more Manzeil and less Wilson.
 

jrry32

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The play against Michigan State that really teased Mariota’s potential was the 37-yard touchdown strike to Lowe that gave the Ducks the lead for good at 32–27, near the end of the third quarter. Lowe ran a looping vertical route to the outside from his slot position, and the Spartans had enough defenders to thwart the play. But Mariota looked quickly at the receiver in the middle of the field, which cleared out the safety, then threw a dart to Lowe before he was truly open. That’s graduate-level passing and indicates he is capable of running a full-field-progression NFL offense.

THAT play teased his potential? A play where there was a coverage bust leaving the WR wide open by a mile. Puhlease. You can come up with something better than that.

Mod edit: Fixed that for ya. :cool:
 

jrry32

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3) RG3, when healthy, is worth more to a team than all of those players mentioned above put together. His scrambling makes offensive linemen's jobs easier, his passing ability makes his WRs better (imagine Brian Quick and Kenny Britt replacing Pierre Garcon and 2014 Deseasn Jackson), and his grasp of the read option makes an above average Alfred Morris a star.

5) RG3, when healthy, is not a guy, he is a star. Put him on a team starving for star talent (Rams) and it would have changed the fortune and the course of a franchise forever.

Except RGIII has looked entirely mediocre since his knee injury. And calling him a better QB than Bradford right now is majorly questionable. So no, I don't think he is worth more to the Rams than all those players if we're assuming a healthy Sam.

I also 100% disagree with the assertion that scrambling makes an OL's job easier. It doesn't. Having the ability to scramble CAN. But you want to know what makes the OL's job easier? Getting the ball out quickly to the WR. That's why Peyton Manning is consistently the least sacked(or one of the least sacked) QB in football behind just about any OL.
 

ChrisW

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Except RGIII has looked entirely mediocre since his knee injury. And calling him a better QB than Bradford right now is majorly questionable. So no, I don't think he is worth more to the Rams than all those players if we're assuming a healthy Sam.

I also 100% disagree with the assertion that scrambling makes an OL's job easier. It doesn't. Having the ability to scramble CAN. But you want to know what makes the OL's job easier? Getting the ball out quickly to the WR. That's why Peyton Manning is consistently the least sacked(or one of the least sacked) QB in football behind just about any OL.

I saw an article where Peyton is averaging like 2 seconds before the ball is out so far this year. A full second below RGIII.
 

Boston Ram

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Mariota is so hard to evaluate IMO. Reminds me of Greg Robinson. There is just not enough tape that shows NFL type plays. With Robinson it was no tape of him on an island pass blocking. With Mariota, its the window throws and throwing to a space or location. His receivers always seem to be so wide open and of course there is just the offense he runs at Oregon. I enjoy watching him play at the college level, but I struggle with how his game will translate and the NFL level.

He has the skill set, I just worry about the instincts and ability to read and diagnose coverage, he will have a big adjustment to make.
 

dieterbrock

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Except RGIII has looked entirely mediocre since his knee injury. And calling him a better QB than Bradford right now is majorly questionable. So no, I don't think he is worth more to the Rams than all those players if we're assuming a healthy Sam.

I also 100% disagree with the assertion that scrambling makes an OL's job easier. It doesn't. Having the ability to scramble CAN. But you want to know what makes the OL's job easier? Getting the ball out quickly to the WR. That's why Peyton Manning is consistently the least sacked(or one of the least sacked) QB in football behind just about any OL.
Great post
 

blue4

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I actually wrote a long response to this and deleted it because im fairly certain you didnt read my post.

-While I dont agree the rams d would "suck ass" without the RG3 trade it definitely helped us...but how is that related to what I said?
-I never suggested we should have or would have drafted RG3 so us having a chicken legged qb who cant read a defense comes out of left field
-His injuries don't PROVE anything. Just an unfortunate turn of events like any other injury.
-Hindsight being 20/20...Of course the Redskins wouldn't have made the trade for RG3 had they known he would suffer injuries the way he has. That's not exactly a profound thought. I do maintain that minus the injuries the Redskins would still trade every player we received as compensation for a healthy franchise leading RG3

I read your post. I'll admit I have no idea what you're trying to say. The fact that RGIII has been mediocre and injured does indeed show the folly of trading your future for one guy. I don't see how any of this doesn't apply to your post. It's not hindsight to talk about his injuries when many of us predicted them before the draft.
 

NJRamsFan

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I read your post. I'll admit I have no idea what you're trying to say. The fact that RGIII has been mediocre and injured does indeed show the folly of trading your future for one guy. I don't see how any of this doesn't apply to your post. It's not hindsight to talk about his injuries when many of us predicted them before the draft.
You jumped in the middle of the conversation. If you go back to the beginning my only point is that I feel Marcus Mariota is going to be an absolute star in this league and I wouldnt mind trading up to draft him.
 

blue4

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You jumped in the middle of the conversation. If you go back to the beginning my only point is that I feel Marcus Mariota is going to be an absolute star in this league and I wouldnt mind trading up to draft him.

I actually followed the conversation from the beginning. V3 brought up Eli Manning as evidence of not trading extra picks, which I liked that post, then you refuted that with RGIII, which I responded to. My only point is that trading up that costs you extra 1st round picks is bad news. I used your RGIII example to show why that's my opinion.
 

NJRamsFan

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I actually followed the conversation from the beginning. V3 brought up Eli Manning as evidence of not trading extra picks, which I liked that post, then you refuted that with RGIII, which I responded to. My only point is that trading up that costs you extra 1st round picks is bad news. I used your RGIII example to show why that's my opinion.
Okay in that case. Eli Manning won 2 super bowls. period. Speculation is fine and dandy but clearly this is not an example of trading up being a failure. So I don't understand that stance.

As far as my point on RG3, it was that, after his rookie year where he lit it up and led Washington to the playoffs they were more than happy giving up the picks they did to land RG3. Obviously if you take into account the injuries the trade favors the rams heavily. But, IMO Washington successfully traded up and landed a star franchise QB, unfortunately for them he got hurt and hasn't looked the same...but that's the nature of the NFL. Players sometimes get injured.

The reason I bring up these 2 examples is to show trading up can, and has been done (recently) successfully. It is not a end all be all fact that its not worth it to trade up, it depends on the player and whether or not your franchise feels hes going to be a super star. If the Rams feel Mariota is going to be as good as I do, I can assure you they will pull the trigger (within reason) on a trade to land him.

As I mentioned earlier, I could understand if your stance was Marcus Mariota is not good enough or not worth trading up for. That would be perfectly understandable to me. But to say trading up is never worth it, what are you really saying? its a sentiment that NFL scouts, GMs, and Coaches, clearly disagree with as its been done many times in the past and will continue to be done in the future.

Obviously its risky to trade up for a player. Obviously its failed in the past. If you have a solid roster, (as the rams do IMO) and adding a franchise QB would allow you to turn the corner and become contenders, and you have a QB on your board rated as high as I have Mariota rated, its time to go all in.
 
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blue4

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Okay in that case. Eli Manning won 2 super bowls. period. Speculation is fine and dandy but clearly this is not an example of trading up being a failure. So I don't understand that stance.

As far as my point on RG3, it was that, after his rookie year where he lit it up and led Washington to the playoffs they were more than happy giving up the picks they did to land RG3. Obviously if you take into account the injuries the trade favors the rams heavily. But, IMO Washington successfully traded up and landed a star franchise qb, unfortunately for them he got hurt and hasnt looked the same...but thats the nature of the NFL. Players sometimes get injured.

The reason I bring up these 2 examples is to show trading up can, and has been done (recently) successfully. It is not a end all be all fact that its not worth it to trade up, it depends on the player and whether or not your franchise feel hes going to be a super star. If the Rams feel Mariota is going to be as good as I do, I can assure you they will pull the trigger (within reason) on a trade to land him.

As I mentioned earlier, I could understand if your stance was Marcus Mariota is not good enough or not worth trading up for. That would be perfectly understandable to me. But to say trading up is never worth it, what are you really saying? its a sentiment that NFL scouts, GMs, and Coaches, clearly disagree with as its been done many times in the past and will continue to be done in the future.

Obviously its risky to trade up for a player. Obviously its failed in the past. If you have a solid roster, (as the rams do IMO) and adding a franchise qb would allow you to turn the corner and become contenders, and you have a QB on your board rated as high as I have Mariota rated, its time to go all in.

I agree with much of what you say. I think we disagree on how much is too much.
 

NJRamsFan

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I agree with much of what you say. I think we disagree on how much is too much.
Fair enough. I hope the Rams can construct a trade for less than what we got from Washington to move up for Mariota