Let's Talk About The OLine...

[Ramhusker]

So it seems to be nearly a consensus that Rhaney and Donnal are this OL's weakest links?

 

[BonifayRam]

Not sure they can carry 11 this year and Williams is a pure LT not a Guard, also IMO, unless Rhaney can showcase something different in preseason if they keep 11 I would give Kush a long look or pick somebody else up because the only thing that Rhaney showed last season was that he should consider moving to Spain and becoming a professional matador.

Yep I with you on Rhaney's true worth...not much. That's why if I were Boudreau I have several of the probable reserve OL'ers get a ton of center action OTA's,Training Camp & pre season. Any time given to a one post reserve OL'er like Rhaney is wasted time. Either Rhaney shows he is vastly improved his abilities @ both OG posts or he is cut bait. Rams lost FOUR OL'ers who happen to be starting at the time of their injury for long periods of time (Saffold/Brown/Williams) went IR'd & Donnal was lost to a knee, starting for Havenstein wk11 & was never seen again. A 5th starter Havenstein suffered thru two lower leg injuries & missed a lot of time too. So a large OL cadre is advised.

I see something special in Darrell Williams den. He played well as a swing OT, after signing as an unknown UDFA. DW has some versatility in him & he is smart. I am sure that Boudreau will get him some left OG action along with swing OT play. If DW can prove to be a 3 post reserve he has secured himself a spot on this roster.

Andrew Donnal is also versatile & if this off season he added some power in his game he should stick as a reserve ORG/ORT. Just based on what i saw last season AD is much better @ OT than @ OG. Last time we saw Saffold playing well was back late in 2013 he has a ton to prove to earn a starting spot IMO. I do not expect Saffold to be a starter with this current OL based on his weak & injured performances the last two seasons. Saffold may be one of the NFL most overrated OL'ers.

OG Cody Wichmann saw most of his action @ right OG but he did have some left OG series too. IMO Garrett Reynolds can hold his own @ OLG/ORG/ORT a very good 3 post reserve if need be. However Garrett Reynolds turned in one of the best performances we seen @ left OG in a long long time. Garrett was our best OG last season. One post reserves like Battle & Rhaney will have a hard time finding favor from Boudreau.

 

[woofwoofmo]

Wichmann is not playing center, at least at this point. There are 4 centers on roster that are before him. I think all the talk about Wichmann playing center is coming from the fact is was reported in rookie camp last year Wichmann took some snaps at center. That was because and only because somebody had to do it,as there were NO other centers there.

For those continually on the bash Barnes bandwagon. I suggest you go back and actually watch a game. It's known that there are Rams coaches who believe he was the best lineman they had last season. The Rams paid him starters money this season and next to keep him here. It's obvious their trained eye sees more than many of your untrained eyes.

Did you know that Barnes ranked 3rd in the league for starting centers in 2015 for "sacks allowed/penalties incurred" per game. And for all centers in the league with more than 10 career starts he ranks 4th. Not bad for someone some of you are so eager to cast aside.

Nobody on this board has ever said Barnes was All-Pro, but he's certainly better than a few on this board continually say.

The plan was put in place last year to build a young O-line that could be special given enough time to play together.

 

[OnceARam]

Listing him at 1 on my OG depth chart isn't enough for you?

Point taken. Let's hope he stays healthy.

 

[A.J. Hicks]

I think I lean on the far more optimistic side when it comes to our Oline. Lots of bashing around the web when it comes to these guys.

Injury aside; I feel this line is in place to really shock the NFL. That is just from a running stand point.

Factor in a QB who showed better pocket awareness than anyone on our roster and we could be in for something.

 

[ReddingRam]

I think I lean on the far more optimistic side when it comes to our Oline. Lots of bashing around the web when it comes to these guys.

Injury aside; I feel this line is in place to really shock the NFL. That is just from a running stand point.

Factor in a QB who showed better pocket awareness than anyone on our roster and we could be in for something.

Right! Goff's quick release and pocket awareness is going to help these guys out a ton!.

 

[OldSchool]

Wichmann is not playing center, at least at this point. There are 4 centers on roster that are before him. I think all the talk about Wichmann playing center is coming from the fact is was reported in rookie camp last year Wichmann took some snaps at center. That was because and only because somebody had to do it,as there were NO other centers there.

For those continually on the bash Barnes bandwagon. I suggest you go back and actually watch a game. It's known that there are Rams coaches who believe he was the best lineman they had last season. The Rams paid him starters money this season and next to keep him here. It's obvious their trained eye sees more than many of your untrained eyes.

Did you know that Barnes ranked 3rd in the league for starting centers in 2015 for "sacks allowed/penalties incurred" per game. And for all centers in the league with more than 10 career starts he ranks 4th. Not bad for someone some of you are so eager to cast aside.

Nobody on this board has ever said Barnes was All-Pro, but he's certainly better than a few on this board continually say.

The plan was put in place last year to build a young O-line that could be special given enough time to play together.

Barnes was paid starter money? Hmmmm maybe, but it depends on your definition of starter money. He's 18th of 32 on salary for Centers. Nobody above him was given only a 2 year deal and a good number of those below him are signed to more than 2 year deals. Barnes by what I've seen most around here say is an average starter. He's certainly in my estimation paid like an average starter and only getting a 2 year contract is hardly a glowing endorsement.

The Rams have built a fairly decent roster and at this point you draft depth and upgrades over decent players. With limited draft stock because of the trade up we obviously didn't draft one, we spent our picks improving the skilled positions in the passing game. As for the coaches faith in Barnes I'd wager that it comes from Fisher and the majority of it coming from him comes from his hustle in the Seattle game.

 

[OldSchool]

I think the line starts to show it's true promise which is lead by the work GRob is doing in the off season. We have the tools in place to have a very solid line and we start to realize that this year.

 

[DaveFan'51]

I wonder if that's more the Writer's opinion more than the team. I hope the Rams don't do that to Cody he's a natural guard. He's not very athletic and I don't know if he's got the football smarts to make the oline calls.

I think it's just more of Wagoner being Wagoner, a douche-bag!

 

[LACHAMP46]

The key...is healthy...can they stay healthy and grow??? Playing on GRASS will help. My line goes
G-Rob_Saffold_Barnes_Brown_Havenstein
backups
Reynolds, Wichman, Battle, Williams....oh, and whoever wins the backup center...maybe Donnal...but he needs to get really stronger...otherwise, he's almost useless...10 is all I'd carry...and pray...yes pray @den-the-coach @BonifayRam that Saffold can stay healthy for 16 games...is that even possible?
Barnes...has really gotten better since 2014...those hustle plays gave him another year imo....but I wanna see what Kush can do....
G-rab, oops G-Rob needs to show L. Bentley knows what the fuck he's talking about. I actually still think the G-Rob pick was the best one to make. Goff will love him...I'm sure Gurley already does..

LT...Robinson, Williams
LG...Brown, Reynolds
C...Barnes, Wichmann
RG....Saffold, Donnal
RT....Havenstein, Battle

Not sure if Donnal needs to make squad...His legs looked too little...I wish Cody could play center...it would be our most powerful lineup...Rhaney is under my Barnes watch of 2014...He looked awful at guard...worse than Donnal...all he can do is run. I'll be watching Rhaney closely this preseason to see if there is a large improvement.

Rams did sign a legitimate swing OT a over 6-7 310 OT named Jordan Swindle who does have a resume worth a good look.

Looked at him...and he looked terrible...
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/videos/_/id/2971091/jordan-swindle

Look at this

Robinson. Saffold. Wichman Brown Havenstein

That is. Scary Big powerful o line.

Again, I would love to play Cody at center...but that position has a serious mental component that a lot of us aren't considering....

Last time we saw Saffold playing well was back late in 2013 he has a ton to prove to earn a starting spot IMO. I do not expect Saffold to be a starter with this current OL based on his weak & injured performances the last two seasons. Saffold may be one of the NFL most overrated OL'ers.

Hey.....HEY!!!!
Just saw a clip of Rodger handing out tips at a play-60 camp in Inglewood...Great guy...I truly believe Rodger will play 16 games in 2016....When on the field, he didn't look like his former self in 2015...I think he was still hurt...He's falling into JL55 territory for me too tho Boni....LOL!!!! One more year for him and Quick.

Did you know that Barnes ranked 3rd in the league for starting centers in 2015 for "sacks allowed/penalties incurred" per game. And for all centers in the league with more than 10 career starts he ranks 4th.

You Tim's daddy? Jeff...Jeff, that you?
But I feel ya....lots of guys don't see the struggles he had to deal with with guards coming in and out...terrible QB play...with his own strength & technique issues. I believe he's becoming and excellent tactician...using leverage & speed/quickness...and is trying..TRYING to improve his natural lack of power & strength...He is a different player than the one I saw in 2014 in Seattle. And who doesn't love his hustle. Rhaney looked so bad, I hope he never has to play at this moment...So Tim being an iron-man helps....I'm interested to see what Kush brings to the table as far as depth moving forward.
I'm actually looking forward to the line for the first time in some time....we will be better...We planned for this...

 

[PARAM]

My single greatest concern going into the season is Grob followed by Barnes.

Robinson has it all to be great.
I think there is a 10% chance that happens.

The positive is Havenstein Reynolds and Wichmann played real well last year, and if Saffold stays healthy he is an excellent LT solution if The Grob project continues to fail.

Brown does have potential but when you break down his game film he was below average last year. But he was a rookie.

First off, just curious....how did you arrive at the 10% figure?

Barnes seems weak at moving guys in the middle. Outside of that, I don't have any concerns other than Saffolds staying healthy.

GRob was raw coming into the league. Not just raw. Extremely raw. Is it a surprise he's struggled through 2 seasons, 1 at OG one a LT? I expect him to make a huge jump this year but I would only put that at 50%.

Havenstein and Brown played well as rookies. They should both be improved this season. Wichmann played well also.

So that's 6 guys, 5 I expect to progress rather nicely. Then there's Reynolds, able to fill in anywhere except LT. And Battle....our 5th round pick this year (in last years supplemental draft). Then Donnal, Washington and Rhaney. I think we should be very optimistic this O line might make huge...HUGE strides this season. And that will bode very well for Goff, Higbee, Cooper and Thomas, not to mention our vets like Gurley, Austin, Kendricks, Britt and Quick.

I really expect very good things from this offense. A groud and pound play action group who is going to make things a little easier for our defense.

 

[woofwoofmo]

You Tim's daddy? Jeff...Jeff, that you?
But I feel ya....lots of guys don't see the struggles he had to deal with with guards coming in and out...terrible QB play...with his own strength & technique issues. I believe he's becoming and excellent tactician...using leverage & speed/quickness...and is trying..TRYING to improve his natural lack of power & strength...He is a different player than the one I saw in 2014 in Seattle. And who doesn't love his hustle. Rhaney looked so bad, I hope he never has to play at this moment...So Tim being an iron-man helps....I'm interested to see what Kush brings to the table as far as depth moving forward.
I'm actually looking forward to the line for the first time in some time....we will be better...We planned for this...[/QUOTE]

No, not his daddy....But wondering if you are Cody's? But I do know Barnes and most of the OL. I get a little frustrated when I see inaccuracies lobbed out there with little basis in fact. I'll come to the defense of any of them when a bit unfairly maligned. There were so many things in play with the OL last year that it's wonder they actually did as well as they did. From not having a finalized line until the end of camp, to injuries, to people playing out of position, to people not understanding their position, to switching co-coordinators mid-season, to dicey qb play, to the stress of a potential move, etc, the line was in constant flux all season.

Get some good health and continuity and I truly believe this line will be one the best in the league.

 

[BonifayRam]

The current 2016 Ram OG's prospects:

#1]Garrett Reynolds 28-8 UFA 2017- reunited back with Boudreau & poof magic happened. GR's NFL career was reserve ORT & sometimes ORG. Earned starting post @ ORT for the Falcons in 2011/2012 seasons but IR'd ended that. Opened the 2015 season as a candidate to contend @ starting ORT/ORG. Saffold & Havenstein were awarded those posts. GR got starting action due to injuries @ both Right OT/OG but failed early to secure either RT or RG. With bigger major problems & issues ongoing on the left side Boudreau flipped the veteran GR for the first time in his career to Left OG. GR settled in started 8 games @ OLG & proved to be the best performing OG the Rams had in 2015. Started a total 11 games & finished a total of 15 games in the lineup @ ORT/ORG/OLG.

#2]Cody Wichmann 24-2 (6th rd.2015) Natural right OG. Was injured very early in camp & was out until the regular season began. Boudreau was getting poor play from first Saffold then Brown @ ORG. When Reynolds was flipped to left OG & Cody inserted next to Havenstein the right side began to trend upward from that point. Cody IMO is our best Right OG. Leave him alone & keep/remain @ starting ORG & watch those two 2nd yr OL'ers blow open running lanes.

#3]Jamon Brown 23-2 (3rd rd.2015)- College left side OT turned OG as a Ram. Jamon is naturaly left hand strong. Boudreau worked JB @ both starting OG posts in TC & pre season. Named rookie starting LEFT OG @ beginning of reg. season. Played very well early @ OLG. Ongoing issues to his left @ OLT caused JB to be move to right OG for the first time in his football life. JB's play trended downward fast for JB. Broken leg wk.10 put JB out of his misery. Lets hope JB never see's the right side of the OL again if we can help it! Should contend with Reynolds to start @ LEFT OG:heh:.

#4] Rodger Saffold 28-7 (2nd rd 2010) Last full healthy season that this OLer played was his rookie season in 2010 started @ OLT. Saffold has had 5 straight injury plagued seasons since thatalm:. Why would anyone expect a NFL team with better starters now, desire this seriously over-hyped OL'er to start? Factual evidence starring you in your face should make this argument moot. RS needs to sit the bench & take up the #1 game day reserve position as the 6th OL'er. When an emergency game day plug in is needed..... he's the man. RS best position as of today may be @ left OT not OG.
Other five Ram interior OL'ers that have some OG running thru their veins :wabbit:
Andrew Donnal 24-2(4th rd 2015) Much more right OT than a OG.
Pace Murphy 22-R (UDFA) Is a pure right OG
David Arkin 28-3 former Dallas/Miami OL'er played both OG & OC in the NFL.
Demetrius Rhaney 23-3 (7th rd. 2014) Has experience @ all five OL positions in College.
Brian Folkerts 26-4 former Panther has played OC/OLG in the NFL.

 

[woofwoofmo]

The current 2016 Ram OG's prospects:

Nice assessment Bonifay! I think you are pretty much spot on with your analysis.

 

[TexasRam]

 

[BonifayRam]

Yes I will agree with you fully on your Darrell Williams assessment. DW was really a very big surprise for Boudreau last season as an UDFA from South Florida. With the opposite being demonstrated by Saffold/Robinson/Rhaney & later Brown DW did not disappoint. But it shows you what 24 live-action college games of starting experience at LEFT tackle can do for you preparing you for the NFL.

In TC & pre season DW came in with a well developed mental game & sound maturity beyond his yrs. DW was technically sound for a rookie. I have no ideal why DW was so unknown to the draft scouts but If I had a guess (& that's all I have) it was the was the looked with his 6-4/300 under developed physical frame. DW looks like a OG or center than a NFL OT. DW simply does not have the prototypical OLT body like a Isaiah Battle has, judging from the courtesy photos from 2015 Training Camp & when observing him during the games on TV.

DW only dressed for 5 games. Things changed when starting OG Rodger Saffold was IR'd after game 5. From that point DW NFL action took off. Why would a reserve OLT action increase when a starting OG went down? ...Because Saffold remains to this day Fisher/Boudreau's main back up starter @ LEFT OT! I know most have no ideal on that.

One would think this young man (22 yrs) Orlando-raised will come into TC looking like a different player in 2016. Last season DW was a game day dress played the swing OT role. This season Boudreau will have him working hard on his run blocking. The big minus in his NFL game to overcome is a must improve run blocking. DW has struggles in finishing off blocks, along with his tendency to falls off defenders.

But DWs up side is what he can do.... in comparison to our other Ram OLT's Robinson & Battle....Boudreau found a OLT who is athletic ,quick off the snap, patient in pass protection & proven effective on the second level. Sets up with a great wide base, works hard to bend his knees & wins many of a fight with his hands. Finally (here's the Biggy) ...does a nice job ID'ing & picking up the blitz. Now if DW can get his run blocking going we could have a hell of a third swing OT & also a back up OLG all in one.

Boudreau must be real happy with what he has @ OT this season. Appears to be 8 OT cadre unit going into TC. I have never seen a Ram OT unit so big in numbers & in talent. Snead has done an excellent job here. Boudreau has young large powerful Starters in Robinson & Havenstein. Several reserve young left OT's in Williams & Battle & several reserve young right OT's in Donnal & Swindle. Finally he has two versatile veterans Reynolds & Saffold who can step in @ ORT & OLT and be effective at any time! :yess:

 

[ReddingRam]

Bonifay said :
*#2]Cody Wichmann 24-2 (6th rd.2015) Natural right OG. Was injured very early in camp & was out until the regular season began. Boudreau was getting poor play from first Saffold then Brown @ ORG. When Reynolds was flipped to left OG & Cody inserted next to Havenstein the right side began to trend upward from that point. Cody IMO is our best Right OG. Leave him alone & keep/remain @ starting ORG & watch those two 2nd yr OL'ers blow open running lanes.*

What this really is a product of is two guys who went back to the positions that they both played and started at for most of their entire college careers. As in the case of Darrel Williams playing LT. Havenstein and Wichmann played RT and RG respectively in college. thus the mechanics and such were a non issue for them. We all know that having guys being able to play multiple positions is a plus....there are times that having a guy who is a "pure at his position" is a good thing as well.

 

[TexasRam]

If I was running the Rams Oline, unfortunately for us I am not, but if I was my oline would look like this.


LT Saffold
LG Robinson
C Wichmann
RG Reynolds
RT Havenstein

That offensive line dominates.

Kicking Saffold out to LT is the single most important positional decision the Rams can make. Grob can immediately play at a Pro Bowl level at LG with his power in the run game and no pressure to keep up with edge rushers.

Saffold has played LT before, and he was solid. He's gonna be maybe a notch below your Joe Thomas's of the world but with a rookie QB coming in this is going to be critical.

Wichmann by various oline grading groups played at a very very high level. He would hugely upgrade Barnes at center.

Reynolds is a seasoned vet that played great last year and earned a starting spot. Brown needs a little more time, but will be first man up when injuries do hit.

Havenstein is a lock at RT.

For those that doubt my decision and want Grob at LT and Barnes at center. Meet me back here at mid season and let's see how you feel about those two guys. Be prepared for apologies.