LaMarcus Joyner

[Mojo Ram]

Give me the bigger, faster, player with good instincts and heart over the smaller, slower, player with good instincts and heart all day long and twice on Game Days.

Well duh. Same obvious statement goes for the NBA, NHL etc...
This discussion got to a point(somewhere) where Joyner was said to be too small to be a successful DB in this league. That's simply not true on that merit alone. I threw some names out there. Now Joyner isn't fast enough. One could argue that a guy who is 5'9" and a higher vertical/longer arms has better "size/measurables than another guy who is 5'11" who can't get off the ground with arms like Barney the dinosaur. Maybe Joyner isn't good enough to be an NFL defensive back. He's played in 10 games. If he can't make the transition chances are he just doesn't have the mental ability to process the game at this level. If he winds up as a 2nd rd bust are ppl going to say "Well damn, if he'd been just an inch and a half taller he'd have made it..." Lol.

 

[A.J. Hicks]

Sounds good. But, that dog can still have limitations.

For example. I'd never bet that a quality welterweight with a HUGE heart over a quality heavyweight minus God Almighthy backing the smaller party.

But Ronda Rousey says she could beat anyone in the world

 

[Memphis Ram]

Well duh. Same obvious statement goes for the NBA, NHL etc...
This discussion got to a point(somewhere) where Joyner was said to be too small to be a successful DB in this league. That's simply not true on that merit alone. I threw some names out there. Now Joyner isn't fast enough. One could argue that a guy who is 5'9" and a higher vertical/longer arms has better "size/measurables than another guy who is 5'11" who can't get off the ground with arms like Barney the dinosaur. Maybe Joyner isn't good enough to be an NFL defensive back. He's played in 10 games. If he can't make the transition chances are he just doesn't have the mental ability to process the game at this level. If he winds up as a 2nd rd bust are ppl going to say "Well damn, if he'd been just an inch and a half taller he'd have made it..." Lol.

Well Duh. I simply answered rams56 general question, via the "obvious statement" of mine you quoted.

As far as where the discussion "got to," perhaps you should quote/respond to posters who have actually said he was too small to be a successful DB in this league (though I struggle to find anyone who has completely given up on him altogether already).

Though, I'd much prefer a taller option at S (also a DB), I do believe that it's possible that he could be more serviceable there. Methinks he'd be one helluva dime back, too. At the same time, it's no coincidence that fans or perhaps even the team itself has limited him to the slot at best as a CB. Why? Because of his size.

Shorter guy with a higher vertical/longer arms comparable to a taller player with shorter arms and no hops? There's a general "Well Duh," statement right there. Yet, as I recall when this discussion came up pre and post draft, most, if not all, of the taller examples provided were pretty close to if not better than Joyner there, TOO.

Everyone is hoping for the best for this kid. Sorry, I can't share the same optimism as some others as a slot CB.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Both players were taller and faster coming out of college. Winfield, was even a 4.3/40 guy and more teams are going with taller WRs nowadays. And Mathieu was more of a playmaker and had/has better ball skills.

I'm with you so far.

Sounds good. But, that dog can still have limitations.

For example. I'd never bet that a quality welterweight with a HUGE heart over a quality heavyweight minus God Almighthy backing the smaller party.

A boxing analogy doesn't work here. You're smart enough for me not to have to explain why, and all dogs have their limitations.

Well Duh. I simply answered rams56 general question, via the "obvious statement" of mine you quoted.

As far as where the discussion got to, perhaps you should quote/respond to posters who have actually said he was too small to be a successful DB in this league.

Though, I'd much prefer a taller option at S (also a DB), I do believe that it's possible that he could be serviceable there. At the same time, it's no coincidence that fans or perhaps even the team itself has limited him to the slot at best as a CB. Why? Because of his size.

Shorter guy with a higher vertical/longer arms comparable to a taller player with shorter arms and no hops? There's a general "Well Duh," moment right there. Yet, as I recall when this discussion came up pre and post draft, most, if not all, of the taller examples provided were pretty close to if not better than Joyner there, TOO.

You're the one putting limitations on him. What is your debate here Memphis? Mine is that Joyner being short isn't that important. If you think he is, just say so.

 

[rams56]

Yes and No. While I agree with the Bill Parcells school of thought that bigger AND faster are better in the NFL, I don't for one instant believe that instinct and heart are not as important. That's rich. LOL. Nice try.

Lol OK... ya got me.

Give me the bigger, faster, player with good instincts and heart over the smaller, slower, player with good instincts and heart all day long and twice on Game Days.

Yes. Bigger guys can have heart and instincts, too.

Go Rams..........

 

[Memphis Ram]

@Mojo Ram, we've been here before. I respond to someone, you take it to another level. Again re-read the thread and my responses in context to questions I was asked. Some general answers provided came to some general questions asked. rams56 and I understood each other with no problems.

Regarding Joyner, I've said the same thing about him pre and post draft. Even in this very thread.

As a CB, I believe that Joyner is a slot CB at best due to his size, yet I question if Joyner has the size, speed, and ball skills to be a very good slot CB for a good defense. I believe he is a match-up liability that most teams will take advantage of on game day. Why? Because, despite his heart, it's easier for bigger WRs/TEs to haul in passes against him even if were able to stick to his man like glue in coverage (which is not his strength) than it would be for a taller defender.

Somehow you jump in and take it to an entirely different level suggesting that I'm saying that he cannot be a successful DB (DB = CB and Safety doesn't it?) in the NFL and that's not true. I just happen to like his chances better at Safety and I believe that he'd make a good dime back.

 

[Alan]

Memphis Ram with words of wisdom:
I just happen to like his chances better at Safety and I believe that he'd make a good dime back.

Yep and roaming center field.

 

[yrba1]

Never understood why Williams wants Joyner in nickel over free safety. The way Jenkins occasionally gets beat due to biting the double move while McLeod is out of position just mind boggles me.

 

[jrry32]

Whatever your stance on Joyner, we'll find out eventually. He was a rookie last year and is still a young player so patience is necessary. I think he'd be a better FS but the Rams don't take the same stance. Hopefully, they're right. But I loved the way he blasted people in college at FS.

 

[CGI_Ram]

I am not ready to write Joyner off just yet for a couple reasons...

First, the Rams are savvy with their DBs and had the guy targeted due to what he does well. Second, the dude loves football. This isn't a Jason Smith who got paid and isn't willing to do the work. He is ultra competitive and has the right mindset you want in a corner.

Williams doesn't exactly make it easy on these guys. His scheme is tough, and the guys who don't know it cold will not look good particularly in the secondary. I do understand the concern with his size and lack of athleticism for the position, but even though he doesn't have great speed and agility the guy brings other stuff to the table that should play well in an aggressive scheme.

So I'm still in wait and see mode with him, and have my fingers crossed. Hopefully we'll start seeing the Joyner some of us recall, who can flash all over the place when he knows wtf he's doing.

Well said

 

[CGI_Ram]

Put me in the camp that come the end of 2015, when everyone is talking about how good our defense is, Joyner's name will be a part of that conversation.

I love the player.

 

[paceram]

This Seminole Fan watched a bunch of Joyner kicking major ass in college. He was a real weapon for the Noles and I expect we'll see the same with the Rams once he gets more playing time/experience. He is my surprise break out player for us this year.

Jimbo Fisher loves him some Joyner. I think Jimbo has more great things to say about Joyner than any other Nole player ever.

I'm expecting big results on Sundays from Joyner this year. The guy is a baller... Wait and see.

I am also a huge Seminole fan and I also think Joyner will be just fine and Rams fans will eventually be very, very happy the Rams did Draft him!

 

[paceram]

Put me in the camp that come the end of 2015, when everyone is talking about how good our defense is, Joyner's name will be a part of that conversation.

I love the player.

Totally Agree!

 

[Rams43]

I'm still conflicted on Joyner.

Love his heart, effort, desire, or whatever you want to call it. And his character and locker room presence are off the charts.

But I worry that those things can take you just so far.

Is he tall enough?

Is he big enough?

Is he strong enough?

Iow, can he hold up for a 16 game NFL season? 'Cause if he can't...

 

[dhaab]

I disagree. There have been many prospects over the years and we have watched them all. After a while you get a sense of who is who. Many of us evaluate these players while they are in college and have an idea of how we think they will fit in the pros.

Could Joyner prove us wrong? Sure. But up until now he is proving us right.

I remember a ton of people here saying Brian Quick was a bust and he's proving that analysis to be very wrong now.

 

[Debacled]

10 regular season games and a part of a preseason and people are ready to give up on a player?

This place sounds more and more like the post every day

 

[Memphis Ram]

10 regular season games and a part of a preseason and people are ready to give up on a player?

This place sounds more and more like the post every day

Only if you fall into the trap of believing that people are giving up on the player vs. commenting on his performance to date and/or believing that he'd be better off at S (or as a dime back).

Despite his questionable ball/cover skills the follow excerpt remains my primary concern:
------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/2015/08/19/broaddus-12-thoughts-tuesdays-practice-fights

Broaddus: 12 Thoughts On Tuesday's Practice, Before The Fights
Wednesday, August 19, 2015 12:14 PM CDT

7. One of the best catches of the day was Terrance Williams’ grab over the top of Lamarcus Joyner during the one-on-one drills down in the red zone. With Joyner between himself and the ball, Williams manages to reach back and extend his hands over the top of Joyner, then pull the ball off the top of his helmet without Joyner even adjusting on the play.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Sure this will happen to most DBs over time. I just hate that Joyner's size makes it more likely to happen to him. Especially in a league featuring so many tall WR nowadays.

 

[jrry32]

I'm still conflicted on Joyner.

Love his heart, effort, desire, or whatever you want to call it. And his character and locker room presence are off the charts.

But I worry that those things can take you just so far.

Is he tall enough?

Is he big enough?

Is he strong enough?

Iow, can he hold up for a 16 game NFL season? 'Cause if he can't...

260 pound TE

 

[Rams43]

260 pound TE

Point taken, jrry32.

I've seen highlights of him bringing the lumber, too.

I wasn't questioning that at all.

What I'm wondering is if he can stand up to a full 16 game season. Hope so, but it remains a legitimate question at this point in his early career.

And can he be "sticky" enough in pass D? Like Gaines was, for example?

 

[RamDino]

Just seems like a natural free safety (earl thomas type) to me.