Kaepernick and RG3: Is There Anything Left?

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http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/03/15/nfl-colin-kaepernick-robert-griffin-iii-free-agent-quarterbacks

Kaepernick and RG3: Is There Anything Left?
Colin Kaepernick and Robert Griffin III changed the quarterback position in 2012 and seemed destined to dominate for years, but their magic turned out to be fleeting. Now free agents facing a soft market, both could be out of football this fall
by Andy Benoit

colin-kaepernick-robert-griffin-iii-quarterbacks-free-agency-650-362.jpg

Photo: Michael Zagaris/San Francisco 49ers/Getty Images :: Frank Jansky/Icon Sportswire/Getty Images

There has been a deluge of veteran quarterback moves since free agency opened on March 9. Several teams still have dire needs at the position. And yet we’ve barely heard a peep about free agent Colin Kaepernick. There’s one conspicuous reason why, and it has nothing to do with him not standing for the national anthem last year. It has everything to do with him not standing firm in the pocket.

We might as well bring Robert Griffin III into the conversation, too. He was released by the Browns earlier this week and appears destined to also watch from the sidelines while the QB market shakes out.

Both players had enchanting seasons in 2012. Griffin was the offensive rookie of the year, and Kaepernick became a starter midway through the season and led the 49ers to Super Bowl 47. Neither has come close to recapturing his magic.

There’s a simple explanation.

In 2012, both players presented threats with their legs in ways the NFL had never seen. Griffin ran the read-option. So did Kaepernick, though he was more dangerous as a scrambler. Over time, however, NFL defenses learned how to adjust to these mobile quarterbacks.

This is why playing in the pocket is so crucial. A quarterback can’t rely primarily on his legs. He must be able to drop back and make throws from behind his O-line. We hear this all the time, but nobody actually ever explains why. Let’s change that by further evaluating the Kaepernick/RG3 predicament.

In the NFL, the defenders are extremely smart and athletic, so everything happens fast. Dropping straight back and throwing is the most efficient way to counter this speed. It’s also the safest way. A quarterback at the top of his drop is squarely behind his three interior offensive linemen and flanked by his two biggest linemen, the tackles. He’s also at the physical point farthest away from both edge rushers, usually the defense’s most dangerous attackers.

Behind this five-man wall, not only is a quarterback not getting sacked, but he’s also less likely to have to throw with bodies around him. That makes a world of difference for arm strength and accuracy.

Even the best pass-protection can still leak, of course, which is why part of pocket passing is having the footwork and poise to subtly move in the pocket. In many ways, a quarterback is as responsible as the offensive line for the cleanliness of his throwing platform.

This is where Kaepernick and Griffin get into trouble. Both have a tendency to anticipate pressure that hasn’t arrived yet. They’ll take their eyes off the field and look at pass-rushers. They’ll break down when no one is around, converting themselves from would-be throwers into randomized scramblers. Often, no running lanes exist here, so this scrambling quickly leads to sacks or contested throwaways.

All of this ruins a play’s timing, which nullifies the offense’s best chance at counteracting the defense’s speed. Yes, occasionally you’ll see a quarterback break down, go off schedule and make a spectacular play. Think Russell Wilson and, especially, Aaron Rodgers.

But not Kaepernick or Griffin. Look closely and you see that neither is as proficient on the move as their styles of play suggest. Kaepernick is hindered by a long, angular throwing motion; Griffin simply has no idea of how to protect himself.

It’s no coincidence that the best pocket passers tend to be the best field readers. The two go hand in hand. Which brings us to the geometry of football. In addition to keeping an offensive play on schedule, a pocket passer also ensures the integrity of the angles in the passing game. He makes every eligible receiver a threat.

This is crucial in the NFL, where the hash marks are closer together than college and the ball, therefore, is always spotted almost right down the middle. You need a quarterback who can survey and attack the entire landscape from there.

As we’ve covered, Kaepernick and Griffin don’t have sufficient pocket poise to give themselves a chance to survey. Even if they did, there’s no evidence they would. As throwers, both struggle with timing and anticipation. And, based on how they look on film, both seem to have a disconnect with why a play is called. Too often you see basic designs with basic route combinations going unrecognized.

When that happens, life becomes difficult for the other 10 guys on offense. Linemen can’t be sure what pass-blocking technique to employ because they can’t trust that the man behind them will be where he’s supposed to be or throw when he’s supposed to throw. Receivers stop trusting that the ball will come to them when it should (should meaning either “on time” or “at all”), which eventually impacts their execution.

There are many flawed quarterbacks still on the market: Ryan Fitzpatrick, Jay Cutler, Geno Smith, Josh McCown. But these QBs at least have a demonstrated ability to play in the pocket. It’s infinitely easier to plug one of these guys in than it is to plug in Kaepernick and Griffin.

This raises an interesting question: Will either Kaepernick or Griffin even be in the league in 2017? Though blemished, both are still talented enough to be on rosters. However, their playing styles are so unique that they’d change an offense’s entire identity upon taking the field.

Ideally, you want your backup quarterback’s skill set to be similar to your starter’s. Unless it’s the Bills, who go to great lengths to accommodate Tyrod Taylor’s similar pocket-passing woes, no offense will be a natural fit for Kaepernick or Griffin.

We said it last year—wrongly, as it turned out—but it’s worth saying again: It’s possible we’ve seen the last of these guys.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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Anything left for Kaepernick and RGIII. There shouldn't be. NFL teams never seem to learn the lesson though and are always enticed by these super athletic QBs. Someone goes for their type every year or two.


good article btw.
 

DCH

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Kaepernick actually played reasonably good quarterback last year - 59% completion, 2200 yards, 16 TDs to 4 picks, a 90.7 rating, 468 yards and 2 TDs on the ground... statistically, maybe his 2nd-best season.

But his team was awful, he was a massive distraction, and people have figured out that a dual-threat QB is only so scary when he's not as good as an above-average pocket passer at throwing the ball.
 

Selassie I

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I said it at the time both these cats were running wild. Even after one of the talking heads (I think it was Jaws) had anointed SackorPick as the greatest QB EVER.


"I've seen a bunch of young running NFL QBs... but I've never seen an old one."
 
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Zero

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http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/03/15/nfl-colin-kaepernick-robert-griffin-iii-free-agent-quarterbacks

Kaepernick and RG3: Is There Anything Left?
Colin Kaepernick and Robert Griffin III changed the quarterback position in 2012 and seemed destined to dominate for years, but their magic turned out to be fleeting. Now free agents facing a soft market, both could be out of football this fall
by Andy Benoit

colin-kaepernick-robert-griffin-iii-quarterbacks-free-agency-650-362.jpg

Photo: Michael Zagaris/San Francisco 49ers/Getty Images :: Frank Jansky/Icon Sportswire/Getty Images

There has been a deluge of veteran quarterback moves since free agency opened on March 9. Several teams still have dire needs at the position. And yet we’ve barely heard a peep about free agent Colin Kaepernick. There’s one conspicuous reason why, and it has nothing to do with him not standing for the national anthem last year. It has everything to do with him not standing firm in the pocket.

We might as well bring Robert Griffin III into the conversation, too. He was released by the Browns earlier this week and appears destined to also watch from the sidelines while the QB market shakes out.

Both players had enchanting seasons in 2012. Griffin was the offensive rookie of the year, and Kaepernick became a starter midway through the season and led the 49ers to Super Bowl 47. Neither has come close to recapturing his magic.

There’s a simple explanation.

In 2012, both players presented threats with their legs in ways the NFL had never seen. Griffin ran the read-option. So did Kaepernick, though he was more dangerous as a scrambler. Over time, however, NFL defenses learned how to adjust to these mobile quarterbacks.

This is why playing in the pocket is so crucial. A quarterback can’t rely primarily on his legs. He must be able to drop back and make throws from behind his O-line. We hear this all the time, but nobody actually ever explains why. Let’s change that by further evaluating the Kaepernick/RG3 predicament.

In the NFL, the defenders are extremely smart and athletic, so everything happens fast. Dropping straight back and throwing is the most efficient way to counter this speed. It’s also the safest way. A quarterback at the top of his drop is squarely behind his three interior offensive linemen and flanked by his two biggest linemen, the tackles. He’s also at the physical point farthest away from both edge rushers, usually the defense’s most dangerous attackers.

Behind this five-man wall, not only is a quarterback not getting sacked, but he’s also less likely to have to throw with bodies around him. That makes a world of difference for arm strength and accuracy.

Even the best pass-protection can still leak, of course, which is why part of pocket passing is having the footwork and poise to subtly move in the pocket. In many ways, a quarterback is as responsible as the offensive line for the cleanliness of his throwing platform.

This is where Kaepernick and Griffin get into trouble. Both have a tendency to anticipate pressure that hasn’t arrived yet. They’ll take their eyes off the field and look at pass-rushers. They’ll break down when no one is around, converting themselves from would-be throwers into randomized scramblers. Often, no running lanes exist here, so this scrambling quickly leads to sacks or contested throwaways.

All of this ruins a play’s timing, which nullifies the offense’s best chance at counteracting the defense’s speed. Yes, occasionally you’ll see a quarterback break down, go off schedule and make a spectacular play. Think Russell Wilson and, especially, Aaron Rodgers.

But not Kaepernick or Griffin. Look closely and you see that neither is as proficient on the move as their styles of play suggest. Kaepernick is hindered by a long, angular throwing motion; Griffin simply has no idea of how to protect himself.

It’s no coincidence that the best pocket passers tend to be the best field readers. The two go hand in hand. Which brings us to the geometry of football. In addition to keeping an offensive play on schedule, a pocket passer also ensures the integrity of the angles in the passing game. He makes every eligible receiver a threat.

This is crucial in the NFL, where the hash marks are closer together than college and the ball, therefore, is always spotted almost right down the middle. You need a quarterback who can survey and attack the entire landscape from there.

As we’ve covered, Kaepernick and Griffin don’t have sufficient pocket poise to give themselves a chance to survey. Even if they did, there’s no evidence they would. As throwers, both struggle with timing and anticipation. And, based on how they look on film, both seem to have a disconnect with why a play is called. Too often you see basic designs with basic route combinations going unrecognized.

When that happens, life becomes difficult for the other 10 guys on offense. Linemen can’t be sure what pass-blocking technique to employ because they can’t trust that the man behind them will be where he’s supposed to be or throw when he’s supposed to throw. Receivers stop trusting that the ball will come to them when it should (should meaning either “on time” or “at all”), which eventually impacts their execution.

There are many flawed quarterbacks still on the market: Ryan Fitzpatrick, Jay Cutler, Geno Smith, Josh McCown. But these QBs at least have a demonstrated ability to play in the pocket. It’s infinitely easier to plug one of these guys in than it is to plug in Kaepernick and Griffin.

This raises an interesting question: Will either Kaepernick or Griffin even be in the league in 2017? Though blemished, both are still talented enough to be on rosters. However, their playing styles are so unique that they’d change an offense’s entire identity upon taking the field.

Ideally, you want your backup quarterback’s skill set to be similar to your starter’s. Unless it’s the Bills, who go to great lengths to accommodate Tyrod Taylor’s similar pocket-passing woes, no offense will be a natural fit for Kaepernick or Griffin.

We said it last year—wrongly, as it turned out—but it’s worth saying again: It’s possible we’ve seen the last of these guys.
Sure, Wal Mart is always looking for greeters.
Of course Kaepernick would probably have to stand.
 

DCH

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I said at the time both these cats were running wild. Even after one of the talking heads (I think it was Jaws) had anointed SackorPick as the greatest QB EVER.


"I've seen a bunch of young running NFL QBs... but I've never seen an old one."
Steve Young was a good running QB who played at a high level... difference was he developed his pocket passing to elite levels, whereas guys like Vick and Griffin and Kaepernick never did. Wilson comes the closest of the current crop of guys... but Seattle may actually cause him to die on the field with the O-lines they've trotted out there.
 

Mikey Ram

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I think between Kcrap and Rg lll, the Krapper has a better chance simply because they both pretty much make their mark with their legs..RG lll has has far more damage from the waist down...
 

Selassie I

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Steve Young was a good running QB who played at a high level... difference was he developed his pocket passing to elite levels, whereas guys like Vick and Griffin and Kaepernick never did. Wilson comes the closest of the current crop of guys... but Seattle may actually cause him to die on the field with the O-lines they've trotted out there.


Well... keep in mind that that left handed pos had to retire right after receiving his 7th concussion. Run Steve... RUNNNNN.

I'll just call it lucky # 7.
 

PhillyRam

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Yeah, it is amazing that only about 4-5 years ago these guys were supposed to be what the future of the NFL was going to look like.

Problem is defense's are too big and fast for that style to exist. Especially when the rules favor pocket QBs with the roughing penalties, why would you want your QB running all over the place?
 

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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...h-kaepernick-deal-with-new-team-fell-through/

John Lynch: Kaepernick deal with new team “fell through”
Posted by Mike Florio on March 17, 2017

630770352-e1489784783730.jpg
Getty Images

Four years ago, some (well, at least one) were declaring Colin Kaepernick to potentially be one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time. Now, he’s still looking for a new job. New 49ers G.M. John Lynch tells KNBR that Kaepernick recently came close to getting one.

“I don’t know what happened to that market,” Lynch said, via USA Today. “He was, in everyone’s mind in this league, very close to signing a deal with a team at a really good number. And it fell through, apparently.”

In theory, Kaepernick could still return to the 49ers. The chances, however, diminshed after the 49ers signed Brian Hoyer and Matt Barkley.

“I think the likelihood of that happening has gone down significantly,” Lynch said. “But we’re not going to close our mind or [rule] out options on anyone, including him.”

If Kaepernick were playing like he did in 2012-13, it may not matter. Given his regression, owners and General Managers will be inclined to decide that the cost outweighs the benefit.

The fact that a deal for Kaepernick “fell through” suggests that perhaps a G.M. was ready to bring him to town, but that ownership eventually got cold feet.
 

Legatron4

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I said it at the time both these cats were running wild. Even after one of the talking heads (I think it was Jaws) had anointed SackorPick as the greatest QB EVER.


"I've seen a bunch of young running NFL QBs... but I've never seen an old one."
This is so on the money it's not even funny. Even Russell Wilson will eventually slow down. It's an absolute shock that he hasn't gotten seriously hurt yet. But it's coming eventually. You'd think Cheat Carroll would tell him to work on his pocket ability more for the future. But that asshole doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself.

Michael Vick is the only guy I can think of who's still pretty quick. But his passing game is awful.
 

Angry Ram

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Robert Griffin III.

Got cut by the Cleveland Browns.

Who traded for another QB that is going to be cut/traded anyway.

By the Cleveland Browns.

HAHAHAHA NO SYMPATHY.
 

LACHAMP46

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You kids.....it's not the QB....it's the teams....in fact, these guys CARRIED both of those teams...Kaep actually had a pretty good defense to work with.
Kaepernick actually played reasonably good quarterback last year - 59% completion, 2200 yards, 16 TDs to 4 picks, a 90.7 rating, 468 yards and 2 TDs on the ground... statistically, maybe his 2nd-best season...................Steve Young was a good running QB who played at a high level... difference was he developed his pocket passing to elite levels, whereas guys like Vick and Griffin and Kaepernick never did.
Kaep did play well in 2016....don't know where all the hate comes from? Oh, cause he took a seat for a cause...gotcha! RGIII and Kaep are running QB's....they are not the first...Remember Terry Bradshaw??? Running QB....Oh yeah, Roger "the dodger" Staubach...running QB. Fran Tarkenton...running QB...Pretty much any QB you name, was athletic enough to be considered a runner. John Elway...oh, you young bucks didn't know, John had a cannon and could really run....this isn't about running ability, it's about the ability to adapt to the pro game....before you get...ruined...
We live in a glass house when it comes to QB's...that is, ours hasn't PROVEN NOTHING...in fact, the stuff he has shown, aint pretty...so b4 we bash guys that HAVE led their teams to the playoffs, lets just cross our fingers...because quiet as it is kept, I wanna draft another one.
 

OC--LeftCoast

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I personally will have ZERO respect for any team that signs CK, screw him and his BS sit down thing, as for the other guy, I harbor no ill will.
 

LesBaker

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Colin Kaepernick and Robert Griffin III changed the quarterback position in 2012 and seemed destined to dominate for years, but their magic turned out to be fleeting. Now free agents facing a soft market, both could be out of football this fall

We saw this coming. And I have been hearing about how the QB position will change for 25 years.

It's been pretty static though.

This is crucial in the NFL, where the hash marks are closer together than college and the ball, therefore, is always spotted almost right down the middle. You need a quarterback who can survey and attack the entire landscape from there.

I've never looked at it like that, but maybe he's on to something there.

This raises an interesting question: Will either Kaepernick or Griffin even be in the league in 2017? Though blemished, both are still talented enough to be on rosters. However, their playing styles are so unique that they’d change an offense’s entire identity upon taking the field.

That's the problem. You have to retool everything on the team for a QB who isn't a good passer. Does that sound smart?

Anything left for Kaepernick and RGIII. There shouldn't be. NFL teams never seem to learn the lesson though and are always enticed by these super athletic QBs. Someone goes for their type every year or two.

We should grab them and trade them to suckers hahahahahaha.

Kaepernick actually played reasonably good quarterback last year - 59% completion, 2200 yards, 16 TDs to 4 picks, a 90.7 rating, 468 yards and 2 TDs on the ground... statistically, maybe his 2nd-best season.

He didn't turn the ball over, but other than that he was a bottom 5 or so QB.

they're better douchebags then quarterbacks

Especially yes.

"I've seen a bunch of young running NFL QBs... but I've never seen an old one."

This!!!!!

Well... keep in mind that that left handed pos had to retire right after receiving his 7th concussion. Run Steve... RUNNNNN.

Tell you what. If I got to start a team tomorrow and got to draw on any player from any era my FIRST pick is Steve Young. Best QB ever. EVER.

In theory, Kaepernick could still return to the 49ers. The chances, however, diminshed after the 49ers signed Brian Hoyer and Matt Barkley.

The chances diminished after Hoyer and Barkley HAHAQHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.....I can barely imagine why LOL.

I personally will have ZERO respect for any team that signs CK, screw him and his BS sit down thing, as for the other guy, I harbor no ill will.

It's his right. And it's fair to beat on him for being a shit QB. But dismissing his ability to use his free will and freedom is a very bad call. I think it was in part BS myself and have said so. But it is well within his rights, and undermining those rights is WRONG. There is also no NFL rule (right now) against it.

Opposing his rights is good for nothing, its bad for all of us to go there. I'd ask that you think about disagree but defend.
 

Prime Time

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http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/17/colin-kaepernick-update-some-teams-genuinely-hate-him/

Colin Kaepernick update: some teams ‘genuinely hate him’
By CAM INMAN

Kaepernick has not been linked to any teams since entering free agency last week for the first time in his six-year career.

“He can still play at a high level,” an anonymous AFC general manager told Bleacher Report’s Mike Freeman. “The problem is three things are happening with him.

“First, some teams genuinely believe that he can’t play. They think he’s shot. I’d put that number around 20 percent.

“Second, some teams fear the backlash from fans after getting him. They think there might be protests. I’d say that number is around 10 percent. Then there’s another 10 percent that has a mix of those feelings.

“Third, the rest genuinely hate him and can’t stand what he did [kneeling for the national anthem]. They want nothing to do with him. They won’t move on. They think showing no interest is a form of punishment. I think some teams also want to use Kaepernick as a cautionary tale to stop other players in the future from doing what he did.”

Kaepernick, meanwhile, has been both training in New York this offseason and continuing his social activism. Earlier this week he made a video pitch for Turkish Airlines to help Somalia relief efforts.

Since Kaepernick opted out of the final year of his contract, Lynch and 49ers coach Kyle Shanahan have not ruled out re-signing the quarterback. But that likely is the case.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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Kaepernick seems to need the right coaching to pull it off, but it Doesn't make him a good QB. Harblah, and Roman tailored the offense to give him reads on only half of the field because he couldn't read the whole field. He also mainly had success when the read option first hit the NFL and it took most of a year for defensive coordinators to figure out how to defend it (Fisher was the first to have success against it). After a couple years that full time read option was over with and Kaepernicks niche was gone.

Ditto for RGIII. I wouldn't call either a good QB. The part in the article that points out a running QBs instincts to run at even the perception of pressure is right on. And as we have seen, in the NFL against bigger, stronger, faster defenses most of them have a shorter shelf life than a pocket passer because they take too many hits.
 
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