Just to provoke discussion, I'm proposing a theory...

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RhodyRams

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I appreciate the clarification, Rhody.

Three things...

There are a couple of posters here that are members of both boards and they have been encouraging me to become a member and start posting here. After reading this board for several months, I became quite impressed. So I joined and have taken my first baby steps in the posting arena here.

There are a number of posters that are members of both boards. Hopefully, they can verify that I faithfully credit all OP's when I copy and paste posts from one board to another. I've done so for years. Failing that, I give you my word as an officer and a gentleman that that has always been my policy. I've even received posted compliments to that effect.

I'm responding in this way because I'm new to this board and understand that I have to earn the respect of posters on this board, so I don't want it hanging out there that I'm a POS poster that takes undeserved credit for the effort of others. Lol.

As to whether I've started 2 or 3 threads, I can't believe we're gonna be that nitpicky. I only remember 2, and both were very recent. Both copied and pasted from the Herd board. Both my original posts there.

Just to satisfy myself, I checked back through the most recent 20 pages of new threads on this board. All the way back to 9-11-14. Never found another of mine.

So that's my story. Are we cool?


Of course we are cool.. Any Ram fan is cool with me
 

OnceARam

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If Fisher is Stage 1 what the hell were those guys that came before him? Congressional budget committee? Worthless bastards... :sneaky:
 

Thordaddy

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Ironically, Thordaddy, your reply sounds just like my own mindset until very recently.

I've been a Fisher supporter myself from the jump. But I'm noticing chinks in his armor lately.

Care to comment on some of my points made in my reply to Barrison, above?
That wasn't a post of someone who was "noticing chinks" that was a pretty comprehensive indictment IMO , my post was in response to your conclusion that he was a mediocre coach, and I'll just tell ya mediocre coaches never make it to the SB,go one and one with that years SB champions and miss sending that SB game into overtime by inches .
If they HAD tied that game it would have come down to the coin flip,cuz neither one of those defenses would have stopped the other offense from getting a field goal.
The rest of your points are IMO fan micromanagement and some of them aren't "recent" disappointments as you characterize your "noticing"
to be ,so no I'm not going to be drawn into a line item argument with you , we differ on the conclusion.
Fisher has been subjected to a move, an owner who used an extraordinarily high draft choice for a player he didn't want and was a divisive influence on his team ,but with that owner still made it to a SB, he has taken over a franchise that had been milked financially and made non competitive by that and ambivalence ,but still managed to put that team in the range of his average and stocked it with talent I would submit is ready to make the next step but has been recipient of some crazy "luck" at the QB position without which I am convinced this team WOULD BE 2-1 minimum or possibly 3-0.

If that was our record ,all those things you posted you'd probably need to post them one at a time across weeks in order to not be labeled.
I haven't written this season off nor this coach ,by the end of this season I predict he'll have within one or two wins in three years as the six years previous to him,and done it while rebuilding the disaster he was left with MINUS the QB he came here to coach for better than half those games .

I'm not big on micromanaging coaches ,I'm not a football coach by trade,I try to look at the whole and compare it to other wholes and always adhere to the principle there are no bad coaches in the NFL ,just really good and great ones and that they all are subject to an environment of impatient fans and meddling owners who pick them apart ,some from the git go, the fortunate ones get some talent from their predecessors,often players that were developed and on the cusp and look like a genious. That would be the guy who replaced Fisher IMO,these guys will play for this guy and will win for him.
 

cracengl

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This is just to promote discussion, mind you.

Remember the NASA multi stage rockets?

Stage 1 was to do the heaviest lifting to get the inert behemoth moving upwards. Stage 2 got the already moving payload going much faster before it, too, ran out of fuel. Finally, Stage 3 finished the job of accelerating an already fast moving object to it's ultimate orbital speed.

Is it possible that we will need to do the same thing with our HC?

Let Fisher get the inert Ran behemoth moving upwards, then hire a Stage 2 HC to insert us into orbit? Hopefully no need for a "Stage 3" HC, lol.

I dunno, fellas...

But I'm beginning to suspect that Fisher is merely a Stage 1 HC and may never be able to get us to the promised land. Just look at his career W/L record over two decades for evidence.

Thoughts?
Edit Reply Quote Report

I think we should just hire the next 3 coaches right now. Get them on the payroll. Give each of them 4 games a piece. Don't ever let the players get comfortable. We'll P90x these bastards. Muscle confusion, yo.

Sorry to sound like a smart ass (although it just comes naturally). I just do not believe in the bail and start over mentality. With Spags and Linehan there were clear leadership flaws you could see from a mile away that let you know they were never going to turn things around. I don't think that's the case with Fisher. Does he have issues? Sure does. Harbaugh has issues, yet he's been to 3 consecutive NFC championships. Tom Coughlin has issues and has led a team to a Super Bowl win. I know a retort to that is "Well, Fisher hasn't touched any of those accomplishments." And you'd be correct. But in my opinion, we gave Jeff the equivalent of a freaking AMC Pacer and asked him to turn it into a Porsche. It's not going to happen overnight. We simply can't keep plugging in new coaches in an effort to plug and pray our way to success. At some point, the players have to be talented enough and use that talent to win the damn games.

I'm not advocating leaving Fisher alone for the next 10 years, but I'm willing to give him a few more passes. I mean, it's always the coach's fault. It's been the coach's fault for the last 10 years of our piss poor rag tag clusterfuck of a team. I think the difference this time around is that the right people are in place and it needs a little more time to come together. I just don't see the obvious warning signs with this regime as I have in the past. Maybe I'm optimistic. But for all intents and purposes, there is real legitimately talented players on this team. There are also still a few real and legitimate holes. Losing your starting QB and installing another brand new defensive scheme doesn't help that. But my gut still tells me the arrow is point upward. And I think that as a fan I've been lied to and disappointed enough to be able to sniff that out if it's there.

As for some of the points you make about why chinks in the Fisher armor are coming up for you, that's your right to worry about them. To me, they're either issues that aren't really that unexpected (an Appalacian State WR taking 2 years before clicking in year 3), things that all teams have to deal with (your high draft pick not being ready right away), or just things that happen from time to time during tough luck seasons. No one ever said we would be good this year in spite of a ton of adversity. The belief was that we'd be good if things went according to plan and we stayed relatively healthy. So what happened? Sam went out for the year, Robinson is as raw or more raw than advertised, our OL hasn't jelled yet, and our defense has obviously not picked up on the GW scheme and hit the ground running like we thought they might. Such is life.
 
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Rmfnlt

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I think Jeff Fisher is entering a critical stage (pun intended) of his own right now.

Starting off the season, lots of optimism - as there always is.

Many figured the first three games were extremely important, as - after that - the schedule gets tough. I felt like they needed to go at least 2-1 and play good football heading into the bye.

Instead, we are 1-2 and playing pretty bad football and there are more questions now than when we started the season. Not where we wanted to be going into the tough part of the schedule.

Not trying to be negative, but these next eight games are going to be a real test of the team - and Jeff Fisher.

If he (and they) falter badly, serious questins may start to arise about whether he should be retained or not for 2015.
I know it's hard to imagine that happeneing, but - once things start snowballing in a bad direction - crazy things can happen.

So, to me, how this team and Fisher perform over the next eight games is extremely important... for the team's future... and for Jeff Fisher's future.
 

Rambitious1

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I think we should just hire the next 3 coaches right now. Get them on the payroll. Give each of them 4 games a piece. Don't ever let the players get comfortable. We'll P90x these bastards. Muscle confusion, yo.

Sorry to sound like a smart ass (although it just comes naturally). I just do not believe in the bail and start over mentality. With Spags and Linehan there were clear leadership flaws you could see from a mile away that let you know they were never going to turn things around. I don't think that's the case with Fisher. Does he have issues? Sure does. Harbaugh has issues, yet he's been to 3 consecutive NFC championships. Tom Coughlin has issues and has led a team to a Super Bowl win. I know a retort to that is "Well, Fisher hasn't touched any of those accomplishments." And you'd be correct. But in my opinion, we gave Jeff the equivalent of a freaking AMC Pacer and asked him to turn it into a Porsche. It's not going to happen overnight. We simply can't keep plugging in new coaches in an effort to plug and pray our way to success. At some point, the players have to be talented enough and use that talent to win the damn games.

I'm not advocating leaving Fisher alone for the next 10 years, but I'm willing to give him a few more passes. I mean, it's always the coach's fault. It's been the coach's fault for the last 10 years of our pee pee poor rag tag clusterfuck of a team. I think the difference this time around is that the right people are in place and it needs a little more time to come together. I just don't see the obvious warning signs with this regime as I have in the past. Maybe I'm optimistic. But for all intents and purposes, there is real legitimately talented players on this team. There are also still a few real and legitimate holes. Losing your starting QB and installing another brand new defensive scheme doesn't help that. But my gut still tells me the arrow is point upward. And I think that as a fan I've been lied to and disappointed enough to be able to sniff that out if it's there.

As for some of the points you make about why chinks in the Fisher armor are coming up for you, that's your right to worry about them. To me, they're either issues that aren't really that unexpected (an Appalacian State WR taking 2 years before clicking in year 3), things that all teams have to deal with (your high draft pick not being ready right away), or just things that happen from time to time during tough luck seasons. No one ever said we would be good this year in spite of a ton of adversity. The belief was that we'd be good if things went according to plan and we stayed relatively healthy. So what happened? Sam went out for the year, Robinson is as raw or more raw than advertised, our OL hasn't jelled yet, and our defense has obviously not picked up on the GW scheme and hit the ground running like we thought they might. Such is life.

Very well put sir.
 

Thordaddy

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At least three.
And maybe longer in view of the fact that Bradford may not ever become the franchise QB Fisher and this org. expected him to be.

I'm glad Fisher got the 5 year contract ,the three year standard has rarely been achieved in situations where a team has been so poorly run and then in that third year you lose the guy you've built the team around,gotta say next year at the earliest with the spectre of having to find a QB,NOT BTW that Davis can't be an option but I don't think he has the upside you want in your starter/franchise guy.
I'm a HUGE MARTZ fan, but IMO Fisher is a better HC than Mike, just do
 

nanotech

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Dick Vermeil's regular season record prior to Chiefs: 76-73. He was pretty mediocre, also
 

Rams43

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #33
That wasn't a post of someone who was "noticing chinks" that was a pretty comprehensive indictment IMO , my post was in response to your conclusion that he was a mediocre coach, and I'll just tell ya mediocre coaches never make it to the SB,go one and one with that years SB champions and miss sending that SB game into overtime by inches .
If they HAD tied that game it would have come down to the coin flip,cuz neither one of those defenses would have stopped the other offense from getting a field goal.
The rest of your points are IMO fan micromanagement and some of them aren't "recent" disappointments as you characterize your "noticing"
to be ,so no I'm not going to be drawn into a line item argument with you , we differ on the conclusion.
Fisher has been subjected to a move, an owner who used an extraordinarily high draft choice for a player he didn't want and was a divisive influence on his team ,but with that owner still made it to a SB, he has taken over a franchise that had been milked financially and made non competitive by that and ambivalence ,but still managed to put that team in the range of his average and stocked it with talent I would submit is ready to make the next step but has been recipient of some crazy "luck" at the QB position without which I am convinced this team WOULD BE 2-1 minimum or possibly 3-0.

If that was our record ,all those things you posted you'd probably need to post them one at a time across weeks in order to not be labeled.
I haven't written this season off nor this coach ,by the end of this season I predict he'll have within one or two wins in three years as the six years previous to him,and done it while rebuilding the disaster he was left with MINUS the QB he came here to coach for better than half those games .

I'm not big on micromanaging coaches ,I'm not a football coach by trade,I try to look at the whole and compare it to other wholes and always adhere to the principle there are no bad coaches in the NFL ,just really good and great ones and that they all are subject to an environment of impatient fans and meddling owners who pick them apart ,some from the git go, the fortunate ones get some talent from their predecessors,often players that were developed and on the cusp and look like a genious. That would be the guy who replaced Fisher IMO,these guys will play for this guy and will win for him.

I appreciate the lengthy reply, Thor.

You call it "fan micromanagement", I call it mounting evidence of flaws in Fisher's HC credentials.

Ironically, I have been a big Fisher supporter from the start. I myself have made every single one of your points supporting Fisher in the past.

But my eyes are now open and I'm questioning everything. I've put down my Fisher kool aid.

Here's my non fan micromanagement position...

Fisher is a 20 year career virtual .500 HC. That's a fact.

This year we are 1-2. Another fact.

We should be AT LEAST 2-1 but for penalties and blowing a 21 point lead at HOME.

The Vikings beat us 34-6 in our opener at home. Does that sound like a well prepared team to you?

How could the Fisher hired GW have our D in the toilet so far?

I could go on, but what's the point?

I'm a bottom line and results oriented guy. I'm not impressed with either our current bottom line nor our current results.

Fisher is the HC. The buck both starts and stops with him.

Right now, I would trade Fisher, straight up, with any of Carroll, Harbaugh, or Arians. And in a heartbeat, at that.

Yeah, I AM frustrated. Sigh...