Jonathon Vilma file suit against Roger Goodell

[AsylumGuido]

Re: Re:

Greg Williams is taking the smartest course on this, shut up take your medicine and move on.

I just slump down in my chair when I hear comments like this. What, a man is not allowed to defend himself in this country anymore? The little guy is supposed to just fall in-line when the big guys blast them in the media? What ever happened to the concept of burden of proof?

What is with all of this implicit trust in an organization (the NFL) with such a long track record of unethical (and illegal) behavior? These guys have never been choir boys.

I'll do my best to answer those questions:

First the Saints GM , HC and Asst HC ALL filed appeals which asked the league to reconsider during which whatever evidence the league had was doubtless reviewed and the commissioner gave them a chance to refute it,I assume they were unable to do so and their punishment INCLUDING the forfeiture of draft choices was upheld.

SO It would stand to reason that with the indefinite duration Goodell adjudicated was apropos for Williams,his best course of action IMO was to plead contrition and seek mercy rather than defy. Additionally considering the yearly salary Williams was due to be paid if he hadn't consulted his agent and his agent involved a lawyer he's guilty of monumentally greater stupidity than just the bounty program suggests.

It is the "age of litigation" as my Auditing text termed it, things involving 7 figures don't go down without consulting council so IMO Williams knows he's had and is again doing the right thing because he is pretty sure the "burden of proof " is prolly satisfied.

Big and little btw are terms that make me slump down in my chair because the size of the respective parties is irrelevant but clearly you think it's relevant. As you say proof not attitudes.

I do share a great deal of your mistrust of the league, but since Vilma is going outside the channels of the appeal process I doubt he has much to stand upon there and is trying to bluff the league into backing down due to the "hazards of litigation".

IMO Goodell was hired to clean up the game ,to shield the league from suit, it is inconsistent to me that he would open one door in order to try to close another.

I don't think people GET how adroit Goodell is,I would think somewhere in the suit there will be a request for an injunction prohibiting Goodell from enforcing the year long ban and attempting to delay this long enough for Vilma to play his last year then serve his suspension in a year he wasn't going to play anyway.

OTOH he may be contemplating the chewbakka defense

I disagree. First, the alleged evidence against the players was not shared with them prior to their imposed punishment and would not be shared with them in their appeal. If Vilma is innocent, as he claims, of the charges against him and wishes to clear his name, personal litigation against Goodell is his only legitimate chance. Goodell would forced to turn over ALL evidence he used to determine guilt in his mind. Vilma's lawyers would then get the chance to challenge the evidence. If Vilma is innocent the law team should be able to discredit the evidence used.

Now, if Goodell had reasonable belief that the evidence he used was valid at the time of making his decision he would be cleared of the charges in the suit. But, Vilma would still be cleared in name and in action and could be reinstated.

I know that Goodell is not stupid, but I also know that he was very motivated to make an example of someone to get out in front of the concussion lawsuits. It is very believable that he may have trusted sources beyond a safe point.

Well guido, thanks for that slant, don't agree, but you certainly articulated Vilma's point of view well and ya know this being an adversarial proceeding Vilma vs. Darth Roger, the opposite POV is entitled to be heard.

... which is not the case if the appeal goes back to Goodell.

 

[Stranger]

1. I want to see the damn evidence that the NFL has... all of it. A court case will force its revealation, and ALSO make it publicly available to either affirm or deny the NFL claims that have been made so public.

2. I believe in having the evidence submitted and challenged under a system of rules where the ultimate decision is conducted by ones jury of their peers. That seems fair.

3. Goodell, the NFL, and this so-called appeals process is by no means transparent, is not conducted under any rule based systems of evidence, and most certainly could (and is likely) tainted with unknown agendas.

4. Greg Williams may be innocent under a fair system of rules of evidence, but we shall never know. As far is his unwillingness to challenge the powers to be, well those could be many, and could include wanting to get back into football next year, which perhaps he has already been promised as long as he cooperates, whatever that may mean.

5. I applaud Vilma for challenging this system of evaluation & penalty assignment that the NFL has. I hated the CBA process, as I was vocal about here, and thought it was slanted against the players. Well, this penalty system is certainly an aspect that gives the NFL almost complete control over individual players careers.

But here is what is important. If Vilma's case is strong, and Goodell infact slandered him, then this case will be settled and will never go to trial. If the NFL lawyers feel that they can beat the case, then we might, just might, see it reach trial. However, I don't think the NFL wants any of its internal document subpeoniad and made publicly available. So, it's probably going to be settled, with either Goodell making a public apology (if Vilma's case is stronger) or the entire matter disovling into the ether (if the NFL's lawyers are able to squash Vilma's case).

6. The problem with all of this is that I don't think bounties, Williams, Vilma et al have anything to do with the motives at play. I think all of them are pawns in a bigger game that is not being discussed. But that discussion belongs in a political forum, not a Rams one.

 

[Thordaddy]

1. I want to see the damn evidence that the NFL has... all of it. A court case will force its revealation, and ALSO make it publicly available to either affirm or deny the NFL claims that have been made so public.

2. I believe in having the evidence submitted and challenged under a system of rules where the ultimate decision is conducted by ones jury of their peers. That seems fair.

3. Goodell, the NFL, and this so-called appeals process is by no means transparent, is not conducted under any rule based systems of evidence, and most certainly could (and is likely) tainted with unknown agendas.

4. Greg Williams may be innocent under a fair system of rules of evidence, but we shall never know. As far is his unwillingness to challenge the powers to be, well those could be many, and could include wanting to get back into football next year, which perhaps he has already been promised as long as he cooperates, whatever that may mean.

5. I applaud Vilma for challenging this system of evaluation & penalty assignment that the NFL has. I hated the CBA process, as I was vocal about here, and thought it was slanted against the players. Well, this penalty system is certainly an aspect that gives the NFL almost complete control over individual players careers.

But here is what is important. If Vilma's case is strong, and Goodell infact slandered him, then this case will be settled and will never go to trial. If the NFL lawyers feel that they can beat the case, then we might, just might, see it reach trial. However, I don't think the NFL wants any of its internal document subpeoniad and made publicly available. So, it's probably going to be settled, with either Goodell making a public apology (if Vilma's case is stronger) or the entire matter disovling into the ether (if the NFL's lawyers are able to squash Vilma's case).

6. The problem with all of this is that I don't think bounties, Williams, Vilma et al have anything to do with the motives at play. I think all of them are pawns in a bigger game that is not being discussed. But that discussion belongs in a political forum, not a Rams one.

Well there is an old saying ,be careful what you ask for.

You do realize that bringing this into the public arena you open the possibility of criminal action,and that conspiracy to commit a crime is a crime itself and OBTW criminality is sufficient grounds for suspension which could eventuate in more players being suspended.
For now Goodell has been satisfied with just going after the leaders, unless this is a conjured tempest I'd say he's acted with some leniency for the team at large but have at it.
I've personally found that when I've been caught with my hand in the cookie jar and I know I'm caught , further resistance eventuates in actions that are themselves punnishable ask Anthony Hargrove.

Vilma can get this ina courtroom and the subpoenas will fly and after all is said and done ,after every defensive player on that team has been through the witness stand any team unity you guys have may be gone and IMO you guys could be wearing paper bags again ,that is all at risk here,........or he could take one for the team,let his body fully heal for a year and the team reward him next year with a new contract.
It's a shizzle sandwich, but my guess is someone is going to eat it, all that remains to be determined is who and how many.

Oops inter-man I thought I was replying to guido who is a Saints fan so the whole you guys comment.....nevermind ,but the rest stands.

 

[steferfootball]

Re: Re:

Aren't you applying for a job with the NFL BS PR?

:cheese:

How can you change the NFL's bs, if you are not a part of the NFL's bs? :razzed:

 

[Warner4Prez]

I think this is stupid on Vilma's part. You got caught, somehow/someway, your name got brought up and pay the consequences. You didn't see James Harrison turn around and sue when he was made the poster boy of "improper" hits.

what evidence is there other than the williams' audio?

well, hopefully we find out in court what the NFL really has or does not have.


But what if Vilma is right, what if this is largely a case of heresay with no hard evidence. What then? What conclusion will you draw about Goodell, the NFL and Vilma?

"What if" he's (Vilma) is trying to save his ass?

His HC got suspended, he didn't sue.

No, it's not about not being allowed to defend themselves. In business, you do something against the rules, you pay for it. I got a personal story myself that's similiar to this. I can't give out full details, but it involves something said about me and as a result, I paid the consequence. I don't think w/e allegation against me is true, but I can't do anything about it. Unless I sue, which isn't even worth it IMO. Nor do I want to.

That's a crap deal with your situation, bro.
Payton will have his job back next season. In Vilma's case though, the Saints have prepared for him to depart. They've signed replacement LBs and will likely cut his ass meaning: He's a year older, a year out of practice and out of the bulk of his contract. I think I've heard something to the tune of 7 mil. IF he were to latch on with another team he's looking at a substantial pay cut. Vilma doesn't think he did anything wrong. He doesn't want to lose his livelihood for nothing.

 

[Stranger]

Re: Re:

Well there is an old saying ,be careful what you ask for.

You do realize that bringing this into the public arena you open the possibility of criminal action,and that conspiracy to commit a crime is a crime itself and OBTW criminality is sufficient grounds for suspension which could eventuate in more players being suspended.
For now Goodell has been satisfied with just going after the leaders, unless this is a conjured tempest I'd say he's acted with some leniency for the team at large but have at it.
I've personally found that when I've been caught with my hand in the cookie jar and I know I'm caught , further resistance eventuates in actions that are themselves punnishable ask Anthony Hargrove.

Vilma can get this ina courtroom and the subpoenas will fly and after all is said and done ,after every defensive player on that team has been through the witness stand any team unity you guys have may be gone and IMO you guys could be wearing paper bags again ,that is all at risk here,........or he could take one for the team,let his body fully heal for a year and the team reward him next year with a new contract.
It's a shizzle sandwich, but my guess is someone is going to eat it, all that remains to be determined is who and how many.

Oops inter-man I thought I was replying to guido who is a Saints fan so the whole you guys comment.....nevermind ,but the rest stands.

Fair enough comments. I'd say let the chips fall where they may. Let's just get to the hard evidence this time, that's what I'm really seeking here.

PS. I'm definitely no Aints fan. I grew up with the Aints & Rams in the NFC West together, and they seem to always beat us once per year... didn't matter how terrible they were and how good we were, we always seem to split, and those losses usually resulted in us having to play in Dallas or Minnesota during the playoffs, which resulted in us being 1-step away from the Super Bowl year-after-year. So yeah, I'm no Aints fan.

Aren't you applying for a job with the NFL BS PR?

:cheese:

How can you change the NFL's bs, if you are not a part of the NFL's bs? :razzed:

Yeah, on second thought, perhaps that culture is not for me.

 

[-X-]

1. I want to see the damn evidence that the NFL has... all of it.

You might get your wish soon.

[nfl]09000d5d82944925[/nfl]

 

[Stranger]

1. I want to see the damn evidence that the NFL has... all of it.

You might get your wish soon.

[nfl]09000d5d82944925[/nfl]

Yeah, baby, we're from the Show Me state !

 

[Angry Ram]

I think this is stupid on Vilma's part. You got caught, somehow/someway, your name got brought up and pay the consequences. You didn't see James Harrison turn around and sue when he was made the poster boy of "improper" hits.

what evidence is there other than the williams' audio?

well, hopefully we find out in court what the NFL really has or does not have.


But what if Vilma is right, what if this is largely a case of heresay with no hard evidence. What then? What conclusion will you draw about Goodell, the NFL and Vilma?

"What if" he's (Vilma) is trying to save his ass?

His HC got suspended, he didn't sue.

No, it's not about not being allowed to defend themselves. In business, you do something against the rules, you pay for it. I got a personal story myself that's similiar to this. I can't give out full details, but it involves something said about me and as a result, I paid the consequence. I don't think w/e allegation against me is true, but I can't do anything about it. Unless I sue, which isn't even worth it IMO. Nor do I want to.

That's a crap deal with your situation, bro.
Payton will have his job back next season. In Vilma's case though, the Saints have prepared for him to depart. They've signed replacement LBs and will likely cut his ass meaning: He's a year older, a year out of practice and out of the bulk of his contract. I think I've heard something to the tune of 7 mil. IF he were to latch on with another team he's looking at a substantial pay cut. Vilma doesn't think he did anything wrong. He doesn't want to lose his livelihood for nothing.

Yeah, except I get to do my appeal next week.

I still think Vilma can handle this better w/o suing. Just seems like such a sleazy move, suing. Unless one gets physically harmed, or something like breaking an iron clad contract, suing should be a last resort.

 

[Thordaddy]

At this moment the litigation that most interests me is the NFLPA suit against the ownwers for colusion during the "uncapped year".
Seems they have a case if a cap isn't bargained by a union, which is a confusing concept to me.

 

[Stranger]

At this moment the litigation that most interests me is the NFLPA suit against the ownwers for colusion during the "uncapped year".
Seems they have a case if a cap isn't bargained by a union, which is a confusing concept to me.

For some reason I thought NFLPA dropped this suit as part of new CBA signing. If not, then they most certainly have a case, as the owners most certainly colluded during that uncapped period. Hence, this could turn-out to be quite a bargaining chip.