JL, whipping boy

[HometownBoy]

Exactly! Can't have an entire team of elite players, doesn't work like that.

I think it's based on our superstar oriented consumption of the NFL. Can't see anything that isn't slobbering all over the elite players or making it seem like every good team is comprised of 11 guys all going to the hall of fame.

This unrealistic expectation makes people expect every team to have a future hall of famer at every position, regardless of how many great players they may already have. Makes solid players' lives harder because they're always expected to be on some superior level unrealistically.

People forget or don't realize solid is all you need sometimes. Point to any elite team and for all the great players I can point out at multiples who get zero recognition but are still vital cogs to the team. JL55 is one of those guys, he's not making big or flashy plays, but he's a part of what keeps our D bending but not breaking.

Judging him by his ability to tackle for losses is ridiculous and so shortsighted in the face of how many facets a MLB has to have. This guy is a leader, he makes solid tackles, he does his job consistently and well. So what if he's not hitting people for losses? We have plenty of guys who do that already, and besides... So? Everyone who says this comes across like they believe that there's a D out there that's going to give up 0 yards a game, that's just not going to happen.

There's a reason why coaches preach bend, but don't break like it's going out of style. That's what defense is all about, you're not going to stop or embarrass most NFL offenses anymore, you just have to weather the storm and put your team in a favorable position later.

 

[GabesHorn]

I think you might be.

But that aside, wouldn't you agree that 3rd string players tend to look good against other 3rd string players?

I'm speaking of starters and maybe a couple 2nd teamers is all.

 

[RamFan503]

To be fair, I don't believe that any of those people would say that replacing Chris Long with an undrafted free agent in Ethan Westbrooks would be a good idea.

Who has suggested replacing JL with an undrafted free agent?

JL is a key part of our defense and to replace him, we would likely need to spend a 1st round pick and hope.

 

[RamFan503]

Its dangerous to say anything that is'nt positive about J.L. or even C. Long as they both are the biggest team leaders we have . They do lead. I'm the only one here who is looking at every pre-season game and see no name young unknown mostly LB's that are not giant in size but they make tackles at the LOS and also are very quick in coverage and don't get embarrased in covering a TE. Its not about having a thumper or not and I just don't see the results over the middle in both run stoppage and pass coverage. I know its only me. So I will continue as I did on draft days as I did on this board this last seasons draft. I will have a LB's name that I want us to bring in and start getting him ready. Watching Perryman and the awesome UCLA undersized LB that led his conference in tackles.

I don't think we can get there till we either go 3-4 as so many run or we find the right guy that it takes to fill that awesome spot of the 4-3 LB. Ayers was brought in to get there on the blitz. Please don't bomb my house but J.L. can't get there. Too slow and gets lost in traffic just too much for me. He has had awesome stats but the last two years you can see they are going in the wrong direction quickly. I'm a 50 year diehard fan so please give me a little rope. I bleed for our guys and have invested much. I agree we have other weaker spots but for our defense with so much talent along the line the guy in the middle should always be leading the team in almost every stat. Tackles and tackles for loss and sacks and run stops near los. We need a lb who can cover in pass coverage. Hoping Ayers is a step up for us and Ogletree has also been one of the worst in pass coverage so he does'nt get a pass as PFF has him ranked horribly there. Yes ogletree has taken over as team lead tackler but he really needs a MAJOR step forward this year. He looks like he wants it in camp this year as far as in shape he looks awesome and he does have splash plays but we need those times 5 now in his 3rd season. So I'm not a hater I just want our back 7 to upgrade how awesome our front 4 are bringing to the table and losing Gaines is a MAJOR blow to this season. We've seen Lis Franc injury players on just our team never return to their earlier form and just dissapear.

Sorry I am not drinking any koolaid this season. Not just because of scrimmage and 1st pre-season game. We have a very early tough 5 games to be ready for in a very tough division as the cards have Palmer back and looked good to me yesterday also. I want everything guys. Hoping for no more injuries please!!! Go Rams !!! We have what we have and we will ride with it.

I know I'm one opinion against the whole board but everyone that has ever read my always overlong posts you know for 50 years I've bled with all of you and have put money where my fandom lays . I'm just not a big fan of where THE GREAT AND SUPERSTAR FOREVER HERO J.L. is at this point in his life and my eyes tell me you all will start seeing it this year more too. I'll self ban if he remains the RAM GOD some of these posts make him out to be. We were going to take the seahags LB if he was there when we picked and we missed a really good one that would have challenged JL. It won't take a Ray Lewis to replace him now. Ehats just over exagerration. Mallaluga in the opposite direction even tho some thought he would be better and I never liked the USC kid for us. Have seen many I thought would though. Can't lie.

Sorry to dissagree with 99.9% of the board as I'm NO TROLL by any means, So please respect how hard it is to write this when I have destroyed so many posts not to ever show my true feelings. If I'm justified this season will you bring me back into the fold? I alone think our MLB in a 4-3 is much more important than most everyone here. Ogletree is'nt much help with his also poor pass coverage as I wanted a Perryman or the UCLA kid as every year I had other MLB picks I wanted to compete with JL. We just have always had higher needs as when we picked Fishers Baylor LB Hager over the BC Center that was just a center and a power player and very mean so he did'nt fit the versatility cause the Fisher reign demands. Glad we at least signed an ORT that can only play ORT. It proves we can at least make such moves.

Just promise me you will start looking closer at where tackles are made and how much yardage is given up first and TE coverage. I beg you all not to ban me a leper and think what courage it must have taken to write this amoungst so many strong feelings to the opposite. I only want another WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP before I die. I see what I see. I was paid highly for years as a QC inspector for what my eyes noticed and saw that others had missed so please don't burn me at the stake. I want what you all want and I have one of the largest RAM collections on the planet. I'd be glad to share any of it with this awesome board to prove I'm no troll.

This season is gonna be the one that reveals so very much. I have to be honest while I'm confessing. It was me who when before pre-season started the thread asking our season predictions and it was I who checked off the 5-11 record for this season. I'm seeing things others are not and I'm scared to post them without being thought a troll. Trust me I know this game especially the OL. Dare I post this? I hope to be respected for at least being honest to myself. GO RAMS!!!

Sorry man but go play the martyr card somewhere else.

 

[GabesHorn]

It's like you're intenionally misreading what everyone has said just to satisfy some weird persecution complex. Literally EVERY post has said that he's a serviceable MLB. Not some god. Not some amazing future HoF. Just a solid, steady MLB who answers the bell and makes the calls on defense. But by all means continue to pretend that you are the lone voice of reason and that the rest of us are just so sorrily blind to the truth. This hyperbolic tirade of a post sounds like it belongs more on another certain Rams forum....

Wow that was just a big bait post. I never post on the troll yard. I have no deathwish and am very sane at the moment. I'm not misreading anything, kived too long and read and comprehend just fine thanks. Serviceable is a word I would love to really breakdown but his best days are behind him and as most will conclude we have bigger holes elsewhere. Where as I am adding a ton more importance to THIS "D"s MLB NEEDING to be THE GUY behind this awesome front 4 we have assembled and serviceable will never cut it. JMHO.

Please leave the vitriol and baits for others as I posted not as a troll as my history of posts are well thought out and seem to be liked by the most part. I want no attention to myself at all .Just ask before you rip me to wait till at least the bye week if you still want my head on a platter. Because someone dissagrees with you and most others you attack me with untrue obsevations of your making not mine. You assume too much from what you think you read. Love the leadership and the playcall ability. Those as everyone knows are his strong points as is his durability along with playing hurt as most all have to try and do.

This was no hyperbolic tirade calling everyone blind but my perfect self. Wow take a step back Ram brother. I have 3 brothers myself and thats way over the top. I love this great home of mine to post. I would'nt consider even reading dispatch garbage so please don't throw that knife either. I even posted that I knew some would show themselves when I wrote my post. Are you afraid to have a cicil conversation with facts about our "D" and where it needs to have its strongest players and why so few great MLB's are around most teams run a 3-4 instead. This is the downside of a great and Every positive post written in this thread had at least one negative thing to say so me adding a few together seems to have pushed your buttons.

This is the only topic a civil conversation cannot be had about on this board. The manlove is just to great WITH JUST SOME of the posters. Plus I was not alone in my thoughts. I just don't expect anyone to run to my defense and be put to the stake along with me. I have truly proven over a good amount of time I am anything BUT A TROLL POSTER. Don't have super powers as you think I claimed either. Just wait and watch and keep it civil PLEASE. I'm probably twice your age and have seen more Rams football than you ever will. I know every player we have had on a Rams roster since early sixties so calm down. In honor of our fallen Ram brother who called for disscussion not baiting and name calling.

Everyone wants stats that no one keeps about how far a tackle is made downfield on a running play once the credited tackler gets there. We all know that stat is'nt available yet we've all seen it and the great amount of running yards piled against this "D" in certain halves of football last season even. Please be nice. Thankyou and GO RAMS!!!

 

[RamFan503]

Wow that was just a big bait post. I never post on the troll yard. I have no deathwish and am very sane at the moment. I'm not misreading anything, kived too long and read and comprehend just fine thanks. Serviceable is a word I would love to really breakdown but his best days are behind him and as most will conclude we have bigger holes elsewhere. Where as I am adding a ton more importance to THIS "D"s MLB NEEDING to be THE GUY behind this awesome front 4 we have assembled and serviceable will never cut it. JMHO.

Please leave the vitriol and baits for others as I posted not as a troll as my history of posts are well thought out and seem to be liked by the most part. I want no attention to myself at all .Just ask before you rip me to wait till at least the bye week if you still want my head on a platter. Because someone dissagrees with you and most others you attack me with untrue obsevations of your making not mine. You assume too much from what you think you read. Love the leadership and the playcall ability. Those as everyone knows are his strong points as is his durability along with playing hurt as most all have to try and do.

This was no hyperbolic tirade calling everyone blind but my perfect self. Wow take a step back Ram brother. I have 3 brothers myself and thats way over the top. I love this great home of mine to post. I would'nt consider even reading dispatch garbage so please don't throw that knife either. I even posted that I knew some would show themselves when I wrote my post. Are you afraid to have a cicil conversation with facts about our "D" and where it needs to have its strongest players and why so few great MLB's are around most teams run a 3-4 instead. This is the downside of a great and Every positive post written in this thread had at least one negative thing to say so me adding a few together seems to have pushed your buttons.

This is the only topic a civil conversation cannot be had about on this board. The manlove is just to great WITH JUST SOME of the posters. Plus I was not alone in my thoughts. I just don't expect anyone to run to my defense and be put to the stake along with me. I have truly proven over a good amount of time I am anything BUT A TROLL POSTER. Don't have super powers as you think I claimed either. Just wait and watch and keep it civil PLEASE. I'm probably twice your age and have seen more Rams football than you ever will. I know every player we have had on a Rams roster since early sixties so calm down. In honor of our fallen Ram brother who called for disscussion not baiting and name calling.

Everyone wants stats that no one keeps about how far a tackle is made downfield on a running play once the credited tackler gets there. We all know that stat is'nt available yet we've all seen it and the great amount of running yards piled against this "D" in certain halves of football last season even. Please be nice. Thankyou and GO RAMS!!!

Yeah - keep it up with the man love comments and such. You're sure to last here.

 

[GabesHorn]

Sorry man but go play the martyr card somewhere else.

I'm not a martyr. I think we could of had the LB that our rival now has and he would be more of what we need. Thats it really and I don't think I'm playing martyr. This season will tell the tale early and often and now someone will claim I said I was a fortune teller or prophet. I never said that either. We need better pass coverage in the middle and JL has lost a step. Sorry shoot me. Or don't. I'm not giving Ogletree a pass just because he is the team tackle leader either. I see where PFF rates his pass coverage also. You know better than to think I'm being a troll. Come on!!!! I've posted with credibility and one player is UNTOUCHABLE is the facts. Then as admin please delete my post. Then at the bye this season you tell me. Okay???

 

[DaveFan'51]

He's one of our Team Captains, and I'm VERY happy with him! He's a real leader, and I hope a Ram for Life!

 

[Angry Ram]

I normally let the mods deal with these types of posts, but...

I hope to be respected for at least being honest to myself. GO RAMS!!!

Well if you want some respect...

I'm just not a big fan of where THE GREAT AND SUPERSTAR FOREVER HERO J.L. is at this point in his life and my eyes tell me you all will start seeing it this year more too. I'll self ban if he remains the RAM GOD some of these posts make him out to be.

Uhh no one has called him that.

This is the only topic a civil conversation cannot be had about on this board. The manlove is just to great WITH JUST SOME of the posters.

You sure as hell are not helping by making fun of us using the label "manlove" "RAM GOD" or "THE GREAT AND SUPERSTAR FOREVER HERO J.L."

Just wait and watch and keep it civil PLEASE

Again, you want civil and respected yet you are the one that's blasting everyone's opinions with insulting comments.

I'm probably twice your age and have seen more Rams football than you ever will. I know every player we have had on a Rams roster since early sixties so calm down.

And who are YOU to freaking insult mine or anyone's intelligence about our favorite team? I don't care how long you've been a fan, we all have the right to our opinions and we all know about this current team and team's of the past. I will disagree with anyone that thinks JL is a problem. Always have, always will. Doesn't mean I can swoop in and start berating them. For someone as old as you claim to be, you need to be the one that needs to dole out the respect first.

 

[GabesHorn]

Who has suggested replacing JL with an undrafted free agent?

JL is a key part of our defense and to replace him, we would likely need to spend a 1st round pick and hope.

I'm sure many did'nt see the pick we made at 10 coming for Todd Gurley. It could be a grandslam back to 1983 or we could be in to big of a hurry as with others. Who knows right?? I with one of 20 different thoughts was thinking a trade down and grabbing an extra pick (If possible) sine the team obviously had their specific group of OT's picked to fill out our OL. Would you have considered Perryman or the Pac 10/12 or whatever leader in tackles Kendricks who both are just a tad small but not London Fletcher small and we know we messed up letting him go. He was awesome in the middle as Urhlacher was. I was hoping the speed and number of tackles made for a long period and tem leaders was a possibility.

I'm sincerely trying to bring reality to a discussion here as I watch all college to see who would fit our scheme the best. I know we are all aware of the LB we just got beat out for by the seahags and what he has meant to a bunch of guys who I think our are better. They have a back 4 that since we lost gaines is there best "D" players. Don't you think its time to draft the future replacements and possible fillins to give JL a breather and have him at his highest level when he's playing? Yes we need more speed in that MLB position. A solid rock yes we have. We may need a pro bowler at our MLB position playing behind that freakin awesome front 4 that would give our MLB freedom to freakin DOMINATE and not just be solid. Is that to much to throw out for discussion?

 

[GabesHorn]

I normally let the mods deal with these types of posts, but...



Well if you want some respect...



Uhh no one has called him that.



You sure as hell are not helping by making fun of us using the label "manlove" "RAM GOD" or "THE GREAT AND SUPERSTAR FOREVER HERO J.L."



Again, you want civil and respected yet you are the one that's blasting everyone's opinions with insulting comments.



And who are YOU to freaking insult mine or anyone's intelligence about our favorite team? I don't care how long you've been a fan, we all have the right to our opinions and we all know about this current team and team's of the past. I will disagree with anyone that thinks JL is a problem. Always have, always will. Doesn't mean I can swoop in and start berating them. For someone as old as you claim to be, you need to be the one that needs to dole out the respect first.

How would someone address a poster who says they will always disagree? You did swoop in and berate . I am everything I claim to be and much more. I know you do believe in civil discussion as do I. I have offered up a few suggestions above and I'm not as good at posting as you in circling all my fopaus and bad wording. If you go back over all of the posts you will well know I took liberty yes, but I did summarize the common thoughts of most of the posts as JL is really one of the greatest Ram players a certain generation of RAM fans has seen along with possibly Steven Jackson and many who were not around to see those that wore the horns before truly don't give a rats arse if they did'nt live it for themselves.

They may through a smug condescending good for you comment but if they did'nt live it or witness it themselves then it TRULY has no meaning to thier personal fandom. I can understand. So any negative thoughts on J.L. would have brought ire no matter what right? I think none of our players when we see how easily they are injured and replaced in todays NFL are above critisism. We run an old fashion offense that is going back to ground chuck (Chuck Knox) if you were not a RAMS fan then. He was our head coach Like John Robinson who also was a big believer in the run first.

The history of the RAMS is closly tied to a great offensive line and so many GREAT RB's that so many even go unmentioned as the Greg Bells and Peacocks, Wendell Tylers etc had just one great year in our offense before another talent took its place. The Rams defense also has been for almost 50 years a 4-3 defense as we rarely ever did more than experiment with 3-4 packages. I loved that ILB that the Ravens got in the 1st round last year and he could have played the MLB for us but. Its obvious that there is a definate bunch of hardcore RAMS fans who have'nt been able to enjoy all the winning seasons and playoff games and memories I've been so blessed to see.

All I can say is I'm sorry. I truly see why JL may be untouchable and I appologize sincerely as I would feel if someone said Gabriel needs to be replaced and I did hear those remarks about Warner and those days were very tough When Martz moved on with Bulger and Warner went on to almost take a ragtag bunch to within seconds of a WC elsewhere. Great talent has those around it rise up and play better as we saw when C. long returned to the team last year and suddenly a burst came forth from the team as a whole. It was great to see. I truly am sorry that at my age I may have lost some sensitivity to some RAMS fans only true hardcore hero's. One of my Old satin coaches jackets from early 80's and late 70's is embroidered "HOLLYWOOD HEROES". To me they tuly were and still are just in another stadium is all. Love the dome. Great memories on dvd no one can take away.

Just think its time we start thinking about trying to upgrade a position most think we can't upgrade. It is doable I promise as painfull as it seems it will be to so many. I assure you its just another part of this NFL thing we watch. I wish I was mor computer savy and could defend my point better but I did'nt start this or any other thread and I just need to be more sensitive. I will. Just watch and consider what I have said. Tape the games and rewatch them. See if your guys are doin what you thought they were. Sometimes its hard to be honest with ourselves as My guy Warner misses out on the HOF in the last vote as The Bus got in and the donut hole theory thats so hard for me to accept is what kept Warner from a gold jacket and with Favre going in next year he will have to wait longer as only having 5 go in the voters don't like 2 in one position.

I'm over it. Life is much bigger and NFL Football watching is a hobby not our lives. I'm not a troll by any way shape or form. Just not as sensitive and using proper wording when posting. even if I think I captured the general consensus. I'm no Martyr. The GREATEST EVER did that for us all. GOD BLESS and GO RAMS!

 

[RamFan503]

@GabesHorn - refer to what Angry Ram said. Pretty well sums it up.

 

[blue4]

One thing I love about this website is it's excellent ignore feature.

 

[RamFan503]

Yep. Sometimes I wish I could use it.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Who has suggested replacing JL with an undrafted free agent?

JL is a key part of our defense and to replace him, we would likely need to spend a 1st round pick and hope.

No one.

But, I would love it if the team could find another undrafted FA London Fletcher out there.

BTW, JL wasn't even a 1st round pick as MLBs typically have to be true studs or athletic freaks to get selected in the 1st round nowadays. Or in a pretty weak draft class.

 

[Memphis Ram]

There was conversation of trading him if no draft pick game to us as a high caliber and trading him and going with Sims/Hayes which are considered starting caliber.

I must have missed or either forgot about those then. But, I guess it wouldn't surprise me. Wow Sims? Up until this year, he's been a bubble guy each off-season to me.

BTW, earlier you mentioned the slow start on defense minus Long. But, didn't they turn things around before he got back? Just sayin. Quite frankly, while Long is a good player, I really believe that the defense missed the snaps he provided that helped keep others fresh more than they missed his actual playmaking ability.

In the end, both guys (Long & Laurinaitis) are good players. But, their positions could be upgraded just like everyone else. And I hate that the mere suggestion of such causes so much angst among the fanbase.

 

[bskrilla]

Just wait and watch and keep it civil PLEASE. I'm probably twice your age and have seen more Rams football than you ever will. I know every player we have had on a Rams roster since early sixties so calm down. In honor of our fallen Ram brother who called for disscussion not baiting and name calling.

The irony of calling for people to keep it civil and friendly and then immediately following that with a "I'm so much older and wiser than you so how dare you question me" is so thick that I'm not sure I can handle it.

This discussion had been completely civil until you showed up to start accusing people of "manlove" and worshipping " THE GREAT AND SUPERSTAR FOREVER HERO J.L."

I also never accused you of being a troll which you somehow seem to think I or somebody else did....

The only name-calling that has occurred has come from your direction towards everyone else.

 

[HometownBoy]

In the end, both guys (Long & Laurinaitis) are good players. But, their positions could be upgraded just like everyone else. And I hate that the mere suggestion of such causes so much angst among the fanbase.

This is true, but then you have to ask yourself, is it angst because it's angst or angst because you believe that saying as much shouldn't merit any disagreement?

Every position could stand to be upgraded yes, but is that realistic? Does it really NEED to be upgraded, or is it a want? Like so many have posted, not every player can be a Hall of Famer in the wings, there's no team in the NFL right now with hall of famers at every starting position. Sometimes solid players are enough.

 

[Memphis Ram]

This is true, but then you have to ask yourself, is it angst because it's angst or angst because you believe that saying as much shouldn't merit any disagreement?

Every position could stand to be upgraded yes, but is that realistic? Does it really NEED to be upgraded, or is it a want? Like so many have posted, not every player can be a Hall of Famer in the wings, there's no team in the NFL right now with hall of famers at every starting position. Sometimes solid players are enough.

Well, of course, solid players can be enough under the right circumstances. Good scheme. Everyone on the same page. Some better than solid talent on the same side of the ball that fits. Now, you'd hope that they wouldn't be paid like superstar players at the expense of adding more talent, but they can be enough on the field.

But, the Hall of Fame, NEED vs. want type responses only seem to come up when someone says something not positive about Long or Laurinaitis is seems. It's as if they have been deemed as untouchables to discuss, if one is not offering complete and utter praise towards them.

 

[rams56]

But, the Hall of Fame, NEED vs. want type responses only seem to come up when someone says something about Long or Laurinaitis is seems. It's as if they have been deemed as untouchables to discuss if not offering complete and utter praise towards them.

Really? I'm not sure this is true. It could just seem that way because they dont share the same view as you......Although I believe there are intangibles that go with they're (JL,Long)average to above average play that are too hard to find league wide..... little lone in a rookie. Talent wise of course they can be upgraded. ...but for example can a rookie MLB help this team be better this year? I'm not so sure.

Go Rams.........