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Jeff Fisher Anyone?

Discussion in 'RAMS - NFL TALK' started by Anonymous, Oct 6, 2011.

  1. joeybittick Well-Known Member

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    Aren't those Devaney's responsibility?

    I have said plenty I think about the backup RB thing for people to know where I stand on that (I think people just picked that spot to harp on; when you have a guy like SJAX who has put up HOF numbers why would you take him off the field?).

    I just think people are being too rash. Did last year not happen?
     
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  2. joeybittick Well-Known Member

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    Ah, OK, I get what you meant. I disagree that Spags needs to go, but I can respect what you are saying.
     
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  3. -X- I'm the dude, man.

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    Isn't it strange how a head coach can be considered a good coach in 2010 when the team is winning, and the defense jumps up multiple tiers, yet the OC needs to go because the team isn't creative enough on offense and can't score at will with a rookie QB. And then when the OC leaves and the head coach becomes inundated with injuries, his OC leaves and the new one installs a new offense, he's all of a sudden a bad head coach and the newly hired OC is immune to criticism? This has got to be the whackiest trend I've ever seen.

    I agree that the team isn't performing well, but the head coach is now the scapegoat? What about all the position coaches? Diplomatic immunity? Oh wait. They did well last year, so they TOO must have forgotten how to coach. What has changed from then til now? Let's list those in order.

    No OTA's
    3 weeks of camp
    New OC and offensive system
    7 (count 'em, seven) defensive backs on IR
    Both starting receivers (Clayton, Amendola) lost to injury
    3 rookie receivers (Kendricks, Pettis, Salas)
    1 receiver who could be the best in the league, but has two bad knees
    Starting RB lost to injury on first play of the season and still not 100%
    60% changeover on defensive personnel.

    Poorly coached how? Drops, penalties and miscues are more the result of everyone picking up a complex offensive system on the fly than a lack of screaming and yelling by the head coach. That's just common sense. On defense, they're trying to integrate Poppinga, Leber, Bannan, Quinn, Mikell and Harris (+ all the plug-n-play corners) into a defense that's also pretty complex. It should all be pretty seamless, right? C'mon.

    I don't get the thinking around here. Start at the top and make changes until something gets better? But that's backwards thinking. It should start at the bottom and keep going up until things change. Make roster changes until someone steps up and claims a position. Scale the playbooks back to make them simpler and increase the complexity of the plays incrementally. Fire position coaches and promote assistants. Etcetera.

    Firing the coach mid-season (nobody has suggested this, I know) and promoting an assistant does nothing. Ask Haslett. He sparked an offense that would have liked to have slashed the throat of the previous head coach (and won two whole games), but none of the players on this team have given up on the current head coach. So, look, Kroenke is a business man. If his product isn't selling, HE'LL be the one to make changes. We can speculate about it and all, but to make assumptions that the head coach isn't doing his job without taking anything else into consideration is foolish. But, we all have opinions, and I'm not saying mine is the only one. So, carry on.

    Just make sure that you leave the disparaging remarks out of your "analyses", yeah? Thanks.
     
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  4. joeybittick Well-Known Member

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    First off, my bad :oops: . I think I got too heated in some of my replies and I should say sorry to you guys for that.

    And secondly, well said man :good1: I understand the frustration. It comes from the passion we all have for this team. And we know there is a ton of it in us (passion) or there is no way we would have hung around for the bad times and rooted our asses off despite the odds. I just really hope I do not have to see another head coach for a loooong time, because that will mean the team is playing how they should be playing.
     
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  5. -X- I'm the dude, man.

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    That's a fair post, but I still wish you would take everything else into account. I agree on-field performance is a reflection of the coach, but honestly, do you KNOW where he's falling short? Do you KNOW that he's not laying it down in the locker room or on the field? Personally, I believe this season has dramatically affected teams that have changed systems and not so much teams that haven't (G.B., N.E., N.O., BUF, DET, etc.) Those teams largely have the same guys, same systems, and same assistants.
     
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  6. Faceplant Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Then again, the whiners are 3-1. SMH.....
     
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  7. joeybittick Well-Known Member

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    I have had the same thought, and now that you mention it I wanted to check it out. I do not feel like going into all of the coordinators right now as that would take a bit more digging than I feel up to, but I will just go through the standings real quick.

    Of the 8 current division leaders, only one (San Fran) had a head coaching change in the offseason and 4 made a coordinator change(TB- no DC-, SF-new OC and DC-, Baltimore-DC-, Hou-DC-, SD-DC-) though TB did not name a DC as Morris is running that I believe and Baltimore promoted a position coach. So basically of the 8 top teams (so far) on SF and Houston (Wade Phillips) are breaking in new schemes.

    Of the 8 teams at the bottom of their division, 3 had head coaching changes (Denver, Carolina, and Minnesota). Of the 8 bottom dwellers, 4 hired new Offensive Coordinators (Miami, Minnesota, Carolina, Rams) and 5 hired new Defensive Coordinators (Philadelphia, Minnesota, Carolina, Miami, Denver). I know that is not a perfect measure but I may dig into this more.
     
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  8. Faceplant Well-Known Member

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    Damn RealRamsFan, I agree with everything in your last post as well.......
     
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  9. Angry Ram aka Captain RAmerica aka the OG Rammer

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    Not stat wise, but Williams has that "presence" factor that forces teams to account for him. That's what I mean. In any case, Long was a great pick for that year and thank God they picked him over Dorsey (who sure as hell isn't living up to his hype).
     
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  10. JdashSTL Well-Known Member

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    Who were we supposed to hire then? Theres plenty of OCs throughout the league that will leave the team when they get an opportunity to be an HC elsewhere or they enjoy staying an OC but wanna try out a different team. Did Spags think Shurmur would be gone this fast? I doubt it. At the end of last season the thought of Shurmur leaving was something I never considered, but it happened. I just dont see how we can look back and believe that was just a bad hire for Spags.
     
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  11. joeybittick Well-Known Member

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    The top 8 teams with the highest Point differentials:

    Baltimore +62- DC change (No scheme change as they promoted from within).
    Detroit +59- No coaching changes.
    Green Bay +51- No coaching changes
    Buffalo +37- No coaching changes
    Houston +37- DC change
    New England +37- No scheme change (did change promote an OC as Belichick was OC and DC in 2010)
    Tennessee +32- All new Coaching staff
    New Orleans +29- No coaching changes
     
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  12. joeybittick Well-Known Member

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    OK, to your points one by one:

    IN 2010 the Rams did not have a single WR or TE in the bottom 15 of drop %. Guess who did make it... Brandon Marshall, Santonio Holmes, Wes Welker, and Desean Jackson (worst in the NFL) to name a few. Drops happen. TO consistently led the league in the category. Who is to blame there?
     
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  13. joeybittick Well-Known Member

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    P.S. before I forgot, I should "show my work" on the drop % and admit I only skimmed the article:

    <a class="postlink" href="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/23/drop-percentage/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/20 ... ercentage/</a>

    2nd point

    Rams are ranked 27th on the list of most penalty yards per game. Not Good. but the stats are way skewed right now, as WAS is leading the league in fewest penalty yards PG at only 18.8 YPG nearly 15 YPG better than the 2nd place team.Tampa Bay is ranked worse than the Rams, as is :whoa: :whoa: :whoa: :whoa: :whoa: New England. I hate Belichick, but not even I would call NE "poorly coached" :what: . In 09 the Rams were the 9th most penalized team per game. Pittsburgh and Philadelphia were worse... they seem to be well coached as well...

    <a class="postlink" href="http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/penalty-yards-per-game" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/pe ... s-per-game</a>
     
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  14. joeybittick Well-Known Member

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    3rd:
    I am having trouble finding a team percentage, so I am assuming you are just well... assuming. But of the worst tacklers in the NFL, not a single Ram on the list, oh, and Bradley Fletcher was the number one tackling DB, meaning he had the fewest missed tackles.

    <a class="postlink" href="http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2011/broken-tackles-2010" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-a ... ckles-2010</a>

    I cannot locate team stats, but if I do, I will post them.

    EDIT: for 09:
    http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2010/5/26/1488523/broken-tackles-didnt-break-the
     
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  15. ljramsfan Well-Known Member

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    Amen to that brotha
     
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  16. joeybittick Well-Known Member

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    Look at the production of those WR then look at our WR production. If you drop a pass fine...but put up numbers to make up for it.


    You also put up individual numbers....as a TEAM...the Rams [/quote]


    Thats 23 drops. Per ESPN, the league avergae was 12.8 in 2010 And FYI....that 23 does not include the TE drops :shock:


    Rams were without a doubt the worst in drops in 2010


    We are the worst this year as well. Only 2 WR on that list are currently on the active roster. Different players....Same fundemental issue


    Discipline......mental lapses are lack of discipline[/quote]

    Only Gibson would make the bottom 15 on the list. The 15th best drop % was 6.5%, so none of them would have been in the top, but none of them were near the bottom either (11.1% being the beginning of the 15 worst drop %). And again, I fail to see how that is on coaches.... maybe talent evaluators. And what about just bad hands, who are those on?
     
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  17. joeybittick Well-Known Member

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    4th:
    Yeah, Rams are awful there, you are right. Dead last in 2011 by a lot. But they were 17th in 2010 (when they were healthy for the most part :razzed: ). Does that count? OR are we pretending we only have memories capable of remembering the last 4 weeks?

    5th (I think):
    I am not even going to try to find a stat for this, but I am sure the Rams are awful in this category... but do 7!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CBs on IR not contribute MAJORLY to that. Having Bartell, Murphy, and Fletcher would probably GREATLY improve that. DUde, the more I type this, the madder I get, cos that is common sense. People who ignore that fact pee pee me off so bad. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with you man, but that is just not cool to ignore that glaring fact IMO.

    6th:
    Man, you know they would be a ground it out team if SJAX had not gone down on the FIRST play this year. And they tried to run with Caddy and did an admirable job, but Caddy is not #39. This team has an identity. Control the ball and play good D. Injuries have made that nearly impossible.
     
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  18. Faceplant Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, not only did those WRs far out produce ours, but the higher drop % is most DEFINITELY due to the # of deep routes those WRs ran. Our WR's ran routes that were < 10 yds almost exclusively.
     
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  19. phantmjokr New Member

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    There's a lot of things that could be said...

    In general, sometimes a team might find itself in a bad morale situation where a coaching change is necessitated even though the coach is doing an overall good job on other individual performances. This could end up as one of those cases. It's not yet, as I believe the reports from camp indicate. Spags has yet to lose the team.

    As you go through this thread, you start to see how system continuity is the key to success and that changes yielding results are the outliers. The teams that have long term consistent success have many players past their first contracts that they have drafted and groomed in their system. They Rams in contrast, have almost all new players. Their only two long term players are SJ and Bartell, and both of those players have missed significant time or are out indefinitely. You can't win that way when the average player plays 6 years and the average 1st round pick plays 9 years. As I keep pointing out, look at Baltimore. It's not even that Lewis and Reed have been there in a single defensive system for years, its that they have a guy like Jared Johnson at OLB next to Lewis, a 9 year vet. Where's the Rams Jared Johnson? Or outside this forum many bring up Cowher. But lets put him in context. He followed a SB winning HC at Pittsburgh, and was followed by a SB winning coach in Pittsburgh. And this is a franchise that has had 3 HCs since 1969 . Cowher did not build that program, he was the caretaker. And bringing him here would necessitate changing to the 3-4, a rather massive project considering the Rams have been grabbing guys for a Jim Johnson 4-3.

    Worst to First Miami. Football Outsiders, I believe, did a look at this. The year they won 3 games both Ron Brown and Chad Pennington missed significant time and they were one of the most injury decimated teams in the league. And in their turnaround to winning the AFC East Pennington in particular had his last healthy year and they were a league leader in team health. FO's prognosis? Team health matters a lot. Now sync that up with the Rams this season. Even the DC has been injured...

    I'm one of those that prefers to let the owner worry about such moves. I can speculate, but demands? One fan means nothing. The fans together are everything. But I get perturbed about the amount of what I call, "magic wand" thinking out there. That there's an easy fix out there with this or that coach or GM or whatever. Well, no, there's not. Winning in the NFL is hard, and stuff a lot of fans pass of as "excuses" are just the historically proven realities. Blowing two complete drafts as the Rams did in '06-'07? That will haunt you for most of a decade. Getting 2 starters from '05 through '09? Worse. Falling into a ton of dead money and bloated cap, an IRS mandated team sale, AND a CBA lockout while trying to rebuild? It's the worst rebuild scenario in the modern NFL and much worse than any expansion build. And this is why I said before Spags name ever came up he was going to get fired in 3 to 4 years. It was too much. It's also why Peter King told Spags he was insane to take the Rams job, and King thinks Spags is a terrific coach.

    To get back to the Texans, they've given Kubiak 6 years now, while trying to get over the hump.

    No, there is not all candy and nuts with new coaching hires and system change. There are very definite downsides and costs.

    Maybe they should just try consistency come heck or high water for a few years. But, in the end, Kroenke has to decide, and we have to watch, at least as long as we're watching.

    And Jeff Fisher. How interesting. The call from fans is coming for him when I believe within his last 3 seasons in TN he went both 0-8 once and 8-0 once. How could that be with him being a good and consistent HC? Or, is it as I suspect, a sign that coaching influence is highly overrated and outside factors influence team success much much more.
     
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  20. Ram Quixote Knight Errant

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    No. Mental lapses are a lack of focus. You may be able to motivate players to perform better, but the mental acuity to avoid distractions is as much on the individual as any authority figure.

    We sit in front of the TV and scream at the receivers to "catch the damn ball!" but do we understand the dynamics of negative reinforcement? Dropped balls are something you don't want your players to think about, so putting their focus on one mistake causes one more distraction. That's why you see teammates and coaches talking to the player and saying, "shake it off."

    The team leaders can be the difference makers. They can push everyone to focus better, and we've already heard about some of that happening. And didn't Spags meet with them before SJ's talk to the offense?

    I just don't think any of us here can have the proper grasp on the dynamics involved in running a football team the way someone who's been coaching football for 10+ years does. Not enough to know when a team is "poorly coached."
     
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