Jags reportedly want Watkins

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tbux

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Disagree strongly. Watkins isn't that quick and he doesn't have the same change of direction skills that Holt had.

yeah we watched different games I guess- he is quick- and goes from zero to 10 yards as fast as anyone- any direction. agree to disagree
 

jrry32

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yeah we watched different games I guess- he is quick- and goes from zero to 10 yards as fast as anyone- any direction. agree to disagree

That's possible. Can you point me to any plays where he shows the quickness and change of direction skills that I'm missing?
 

tbux

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I dont archive anything- I simply watch games, and do research- not one time have I ever heard anyone say he isnt quick. If you google Sammy Watkins quickness- you will find many pages from many experts saying it. You are honestly the first I have heard say he isnt quick- I thouht it was pretty evident- no offense. It is actually one of his strengths and part of what makes him special- as well as very good returner too- jmo
 

jrry32

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I dont archive anything- I simply watch games, and do research- not one time have I ever heard anyone say he isnt quick. If you google Sammy Watkins quickness- you will find many pages from many experts saying it. You are honestly the first I have heard say he isnt quick- I thouht it was pretty evident- no offense. It is actually one of his strengths and part of what makes him special- as well as very good returner too- jmo

Yea, isn't quick and as quick as Torry Holt are two very different things. You rarely ever see Watkins juking or making hard, crisp cuts. He wins with speed. His hips are more on the stiff side than loose(although they aren't what I'd call stiff...they're just not loose either) and he doesn't have much "wiggle". He's not an elusive guy.

Fast? Sure.
Strong? Sure.
Elusive? No. Not really.
Great at changing directions? No.

Holt is one of the best route runners of all time because he could cut on a dime. The guy was extremely quick and looked effortless when cutting. Same is not true of Watkins.

Which is why I asked if you could show me any specific plays where this might be on display. Google doesn't do anything for me.
 

tbux

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Yea, isn't quick and as quick as Torry Holt are two very different things. You rarely ever see Watkins juking or making hard, crisp cuts. He wins with speed. His hips are more on the stiff side than loose(although they aren't what I'd call stiff...they're just not loose either) and he doesn't have much "wiggle". He's not an elusive guy.

Fast? Sure.
Strong? Sure.
Elusive? No. Not really.
Great at changing directions? No.

Holt is one of the best route runners of all time because he could cut on a dime. The guy was extremely quick and looked effortless when cutting. Same is not true of Watkins.

Which is why I asked if you could show me any specific plays where this might be on display. Google doesn't do anything for me.


again you are the first I have heard speak these words- not elusive? wow- ok then. Ive seen him juke MANY players and make crisp cuts. maybe others can chime in- I absolutely dont see what you do.
 

Sum1

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Yea, isn't quick and as quick as Torry Holt are two very different things. You rarely ever see Watkins juking or making hard, crisp cuts. He wins with speed. His hips are more on the stiff side than loose(although they aren't what I'd call stiff...they're just not loose either) and he doesn't have much "wiggle". He's not an elusive guy.

Fast? Sure.
Strong? Sure.
Elusive? No. Not really.
Great at changing directions? No.

Holt is one of the best route runners of all time because he could cut on a dime. The guy was extremely quick and looked effortless when cutting. Same is not true of Watkins.

Which is why I asked if you could show me any specific plays where this might be on display. Google doesn't do anything for me.

Really?

Wow...I think you are being completely biased to your infatuation with Mike Evans now.

jrry, no doubt you take a lot of time watching college players...but I'm starting to think you see things as you want to see them.
 

jrry32

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again you are the first I have heard speak these words- not elusive? wow- ok then. Ive seen him juke MANY players and make crisp cuts. maybe others can chime in- I absolutely dont see what you do.

If you've seen him do it many times, point to a game so I can try and see the part of his skill-set that I'm missing. I watched him play all three years against South Carolina, 2013 Virginia, 2013 Georgia, 2013 Ohio State, 2013 FSU, 2013 NC State, 2011 Auburn, etc.(that's just off the top of my head). Where did I miss it?
 

jrry32

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Really?

Wow...I think you are being completely biased to your infatuation with Mike Evans now.

jrry, no doubt you take a lot of time watching college players...but I'm starting to think you see things as you want to see them.

My infatuation with the guy I rank as the #2 WR prospect to Watkins. Okay. Well, point me to games where I missed it. Or just one game.
 

jrry32

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I've seen Watkins make some jump cuts and back-jukes but I don't see Watkins making the types of jukes and cuts that extraordinarily quick players make. I'm not saying the guy can't be elusive but it's not something he's special at.

Take for example, these plays:


First play in the video...look at the effort he has to put into gearing down. Compare it to another guy with extraordinarily loose hips:
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Here's a catch against SC:

Watkins makes a nice back-juke at the end but look at his first cut after the catch. Watch his feet and hips, it takes him way too many choppy steps to gear down before making that cut.

Compare it to this:



Look at how easy it is for Austin to cut at both full speed and after he makes a catch.

Even here where he makes an amazing play:


Look at how awkward the juke looks because it takes him 3 steps to do it

Compare that to:

Look at how sudden and quick that juke is.

Watkins is just a more tightly wound guy. He doesn't have the same sort of hips and quickness that those guys do.
 
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max

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
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Disagree strongly. Watkins isn't that quick and he doesn't have the same change of direction skills that Holt had.

Watkins is noticeably more explosive than Holt. His first steps are much better than Holts. Holt was smoother. Paul Zimmerman once described Holt like a ghost slipping through a closed window. Watkins explodes through the window. Both get the job done.
 

jrry32

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Watkins is noticeably more explosive than Holt. His first steps are much better than Holts. Holt was smoother. Paul Zimmerman once described Holt like a ghost slipping through a closed window. Watkins explodes through the window. Both get the job done.

I don't disagree. Watkins is more of a straight-line guy though than Holt was.
 

tbux

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JRRY comparing his quickness to Austin isn't very fair is it- one of the quickest guys ever. Show me Holts quickness compared to Austins too then. For his size, he is quick. No he isn't Austin Quick- but few are. Compared to Holt, I would say he was quicker.
 

jrry32

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JRRY comparing his quickness to Austin isn't very fair is it- one of the quickest guys ever. Show me Holts quickness compared to Austins too then. For his size, he is quick. No he isn't Austin Quick- but few are. Compared to Holt, I would say he was quicker.

I don't think he is. Holt is one of the greatest route runners of all time. You don't become that unless you have extremely loose hips and quick feet. Jared Abbrederis is much quicker and looser in the hips than Watkins despite being the same height. He's more like Holt in terms of quickness and hip flexion.

Watkins is too upright and tightly wound in the hips when compared to Holt...because of that, he has to gear down a lot more when he cuts than guys like Holt and Abbrederis.
 

tbux

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loose hips equals quickness? not saying it doesn't help- but first off I don't agree with the tight hips part- but again, I have seen nothing that tells me he isn't quick. Was Holt a better route runner because of his quickness, or because he had a lot more experience at the same point than Watkins with route running? Again, don't see tight hips and don't see average quickness- I see a guy go from zero to 10 yards EXTREMELY fast- isn't that quickness?
 

Sum1

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My infatuation with the guy I rank as the #2 WR prospect to Watkins. Okay. Well, point me to games where I missed it. Or just one game.
I point to any highlight on youtube or anywhere else. You won't see them because you will choose not to. You'll come up with something like "back-juke" or whatever you want to say and dismiss his play.

Your take is obvious. And at this point so is your credibility.

I respect you but this is a bit much.
 

LesBaker

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Betting on Watkins and what you said are two different things. I have Watkins rated as a top 5 prospect. But a sub 6'3" WR going in the top 5 is more rare than not. Which is why I disagreed with you. If Watkins were 6'3" 220, I'd totally agree that it's rare. But he's not.

Over the past 20 years, 10 WRs have gone top 5. And of those 10, only 2 were shorter than 6'3". Peter Warrick and Justin Blackmon.

Take the bet then it will be easy money right? :whistle:

(bored and shit stirring)