Jacksonville is not a NFL city

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Selassie I

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LesBaker said:
Selassie I said:
Just to set the record straight Les,,, I've only added 3 more "natives" to the mix. My wife is a FL Native too btw, and so are my parents. We do exist. :tooth:

I know natives are not a myth lol. But man you guys are rare. Especially on this coast!

I have great memories of a native, or cracker as she admitted with pride I met about a year after I moved here. We had nothing on common, she had a pick up truck and even had a NASCAR keychain. Well, I shouldn't say we had nothing in common as we did share one particular fondness hahaha. It was a fun 4 months.

I need to give her a call.....maybe I can break the drought lol.

When are you back in my neck of the woods.

BTW.....I am going to make every effort to get through the Keys early fall. I can't wait to drive it and see it for myself. I'm kinda embarrassed I haven't gone yet but life has been hilariously cruel on occasion the last few years.


Haha, I didn't want to say FL Cracker,,, figured nobody would have a clue on that one. Some consider it a badge of honor.

Native means born here, iced wanted to know. FL Cracker has more of a Red-Neck background.


The Keys are my second favorite place on the planet. I'm still having withdrawals from leaving there last Sunday. Fun, and still has some elements of Old Florida that I remember as a teenager.

We gotta get back to Naples. Our friends down there are fun... they just come up here to Orlando so much, we tend to never make the trip down. I'm still having flash-backs to titties and titties and titties from my last trip down there,,, and that was the same night that we ran into each other.
 

iced

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LesBaker said:
iced said:
LesBaker said:
iced said:
CGI_Ram said:
But... 3 teams in Florida?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

there's 3 in New York which is 1/8th of the size of Florida...

Huh?

Jets, Giants, Bills..

I was thinking about the size. Both states have about the same amount of people, just under 20 million.

Did ya seriously think I couldn't come up with the three teams from New York.......

well someone already pointed out Metlife stadium isn't in new york :lol:

and when i said size i meant like the size of the state, not population..

you sincerely i think i meant population when i said 1/8th of the size? our numbers are constantly in flux being gods waiting room and all
 

LesBaker

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iced said:
LesBaker said:
What part of FL?

There are several of us from FL on this board. I think we should get special privileges and stuff. And we should keep an eye on people that aren't from here. :what:

Sorry-sota, errr Sarasota...you ?

I live right on the border of Bonita Springs and Naples.

Sarasota is a nice place. You should enjoy it.
 

LesBaker

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iced said:
LesBaker said:
iced said:
LesBaker said:
iced said:
CGI_Ram said:
But... 3 teams in Florida?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

there's 3 in New York which is 1/8th of the size of Florida...

Huh?

Jets, Giants, Bills..

I was thinking about the size. Both states have about the same amount of people, just under 20 million.

Did ya seriously think I couldn't come up with the three teams from New York.......

well someone already pointed out Metlife stadium isn't in new york :lol:

and when i said size i meant like the size of the state, not population..

you sincerely i think i meant population when i said 1/8th of the size? our numbers are constantly in flux being gods waiting room and all

For every one that passes another comes down to live here. It's how it works I guess lol.
 

albefree69

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Selassie I added:
Weather is big part of it. Football training happens year round here, and it has been that way since I can remember.

Seminoles , Hurricanes , gators... all have insane followings. INSANE being the key word. There are up and coming college programs in football too... UCF Knights, and South FL Bulls.

Football starts on Thursday and Friday nights (HS) ,,, Saturdays have SEC and ACC,,, and then it crescendos into NFL Sundays with 3 FL teams... not to mention all the transplants that Les already mentioned.


The economy sucks major ass down here right now. Many peeps are having to struggle through some lean times. I wouldn't call them fair-weather,,, but I would call them many other things when I'm in the mood.

Many of those insane fans are not even from Florida. College sports fans are a different demographic IMO. Your comment about the bad economy bolsters my point doesn't it? As I said, too many other sports competing for too few dollars.

Why is it that all the NFL teams in Florida are having trouble attendance wise? Same thing can be said for why the Rams left LA. When I say that I hear LA Ram fans talking about the lack of a decent organization as the cause for them leaving. That same horrid organization didn't have the same effect on the fans in St. Louis and we're predominately a Baseball city. If the Rams had to compete for sports dollars against fanatical local Soccer support and Basketball support we'd be having just as much trouble filling stadiums IMO.

Of course it's only a theory of mine but Soccer and Base Ball are incredibly popular in most of the countries where recent emigres have come from. My theory isn't set in stone in my mind but some common thread has to be behind what would otherwise be considered coincidences.
 

Selassie I

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The Marlins almost have to pay fans to attend.

Tampon Rays cannot even sell out playoff games.

Never met an out-of-town Seminole ,Hurricane , or gator fan... they make up the majority of the population .
 

Ramhusker

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You can't go any further south than Georgia because once u cross the Florida line, u r headed back north and most of the population have kin in NY, NJ, & the rest of NE. :sly: :sly: :sly:

I wouldn't hold my breath for soccer to be the most popular sport, football is king in Florida.

And Selassie left out Florida Atlantic and Florida Intl.
 

albefree69

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Selassie I blowing holes in my theory:
The Marlins almost have to pay fans to attend.

Tampon Rays cannot even sell out playoff games.
Those are good points. I'll have to reassess my theory. :domg:
 

Selassie I

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Ramhusker said:
You can't go any further south than Georgia because once u cross the Florida line, u r headed back north and most of the population have kin in NY, NJ, & the rest of NE. :sly: :sly: :sly:

I wouldn't hold my breath for soccer to be the most popular sport, football is king in Florida.

And Selassie left out Florida Atlantic and Florida Intl.


We're big on Arena Football too. The Orlando Predators and tampon storm have won many a championship,,, many times having to play against each other along the way ... called The War on I-4.

Bo, please tell me that you'll be taking Jax off of our hands. :lmao:
 

Thordaddy

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Why isn't Jax an NFL city?
Cuz they let Tom Caughlin get away ,and then they hire Jack Del Ahole.( I hate the Cowboys,first and foremost)
They had it goin on ,even got a SB there , and FWIW wasn't really ready ,NY press got deep in their shit ,pack mentality fucktards that they are as soon as one of them panned them they all HAD TO cuz the one upsmanship takes over you know the ,hey he said the same thing in a new and clever way stuff, sorta like the way they got all over Martz.

Hispanics , move ins? BS, if you've ever been to a Bronco home game you know that dog don't hunt ,the biggest mistake the Bronco brass is making is not having the vendors in the stands shout cerveza and having fajitas at kiosks every 50 feet.

Final point,IF the Rams did move to LA, Shad Khan would have the Jags in St.L so fast it'd look like 2 kids league baseball teams 1 leaving / 1 entering a dugout between games. "Hey ,you done with that locker?"
 

jrry32

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albefree69 said:
As I've argued before, Florida has a huge percentage of Hispanics living there. Baseball and Soccer are more important to them than football. Not to mention Basketball. It's the same problem they have in LA IMO. Too much competition for everyone's sport dollars. Those kind of fans are frequently fair weather fans. They go to games when they have a good team.

You're mistaken. I am from Florida and football is king here. College football and high school football have a ridiculous following. The pro teams in Florida in every sport have issues because people just don't support them as well...why? I don't know entirely. I'd say it's partially because so many are transplants and are fans of other NFL teams.

I'd say another issue is that the state is full of front-runners. When Miami Heat or the U are doing well, they have great attendance. When they aren't, the place is empty. A lot of band-wagon jumpers in the state.

CGI_Ram said:
Look, I hate to see any city lose their team. But Jacksonville is so minor league.

If there is any team ripe to move to London or LA it's Jacksonville.

<a class="postlink" href="http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9404750/shad-khan-says-jacksonville-jaguars-focused-london" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/94047 ... sed-london</a>

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- Owner Shad Khan and the Jaguars are only focused on the one game a year the NFL wants them to play in London the next four years.

However, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell recently said the league could ask the Jaguars to play two games a year in London. Khan said Wednesday in first public comments since Goodell suggested possible multiple London games that he is "going to cross that bridge when we get to it."

Last August, Khan and the NFL announced that the Jaguars would play one home game a year in London for four consecutive years starting in 2013.

Khan was on hand for the Jaguars announcement that the team and the city of Jacksonville would combine on a $63 million project to put new massive video scoreboards in each end zone for the 2014 season. Each would scoreboard will be 55 feet high and 301 feet wide, making them the largest of their kind in the world, according to the Jaguars.

The scoreboard in Cowboys Stadium is 71 feet high and 159 feet wide, and is currently the largest of its kind.

In addition, a new platform area in the north end zone with pools, unique food and beverage offerings and interactive activities will result in the removal of 7,000 seats which were previously covered by tarps. Temporary seating can be installed for major events that require a larger stadium capacity, such as the Florida-Georgia football game.

Khan was asked after the scoreboard announcement if he was disappointed to hear Goodell's statement about the Jaguars possibly playing two games a year in London.

"What we're focused on right now as a team is four games in London for the next four years," Khan said. "That's very important to us. I think everyone needs to understand playing games in London is very, very important for Jacksonville, it's very important to this franchise. We need fans, we need more corporate sponsors. Jacksonville is excellent in fan support, great facilities that we're going to have. We don't have enough corporate sponsors.

"London is the missing piece but right now, our focus is the next four years with one game."

When pressed on the issue of Goodell making his statement, Khan praised the NFL commissioner.

"Roger is absolutely a great commissioner. I think he's doing a fabulous job and I would do anything and everything to support him," Khan added.

But Khan wouldn't provide an answer as to whether he would turn down a Goodell request to play a second game in London.

"Whether it makes sense, there are a number of constituencies," Khan said. "We want to do the right thing for everybody."

The Jaguars are footing the majority of the bill for the new scoreboards.

They will fund 75 percent of the estimated $26.5 million -- just under $20 million -- for the new video scoreboards with the city of Jacksonville funding the remaining 25 percent. The city also will fund the total estimated $36.4 million to build the north end zone fan engagement area as well as the necessary infrastructure and control room to support the video scoreboards.

"This is about vision," Jacksonville Mayor Alvin Brown said about the city's investment of nearly $43 million. "Enhancing our stadium is a positive step toward the strategic goal of downtown revitalization as well, and it's an opportunity to play to our strengths as a destination for sports and entertainment."

The new improvements will help make Jacksonville a prime candidate to host a national championship in college football, said Rick Catlett, president CEO of the Gator Bowl Association.

"This is a game-changer for Jacksonville," Catlett said. "I am confident that this will bring the national championship game in college football to Jacksonville sooner than we expected."

CGI, I love the Rams but I am from Jacksonville and can tell you that you are dead wrong. In fact, the Jaguars averaged nearly 10,000 MORE fans than the Rams last year. I wouldn't bring up attendance.

Their stadium was built for the Florida-Georgia game so it is massive. That's why they had to use the tarps.

Glad they came up with a good plan to get rid of some of the tarps.
 

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jrry32 disagrees but has no alternative theory:
You're mistaken. I am from Florida and football is king here. College football and high school football have a ridiculous following. The pro teams in Florida in every sport have issues because people just don't support them as well...why? I don't know entirely. I'd say it's partially because so many are transplants and are fans of other NFL teams.

I'd say another issue is that the state is full of front-runners. When Miami Heat or the U are doing well, they have great attendance. When they aren't, the place is empty. A lot of band-wagon jumpers in the state.

Mentioning College foot ball is, like I said in a different post, not a convincing argument to me. How many of those fans at Miami University are from out of state? HS football is of course a different story but it doesn't go against the other part of my theory. I get the impression from your post and the other one that disagreed with me that you might have misunderstood my whole theory. The large percentage of Hispanics in both states that, IMO, have other sports priorities was only part of my theory.

The second part has to do with dividing scarce resources. They go hand in hand and can't be looked at separately. How much does it cost to attend a HS football game? Showing support to the school where your children are attending or where you once attended is completely different than paying big bucks to go see a game that you can enjoy just as well (some would say) on your TV screen in the comfort of your home. Going to really expensive games in person requires more than just liking your team. It takes people like the ones that post on this forum. People who love their team, through thick and thin, so much so that they're willing to use some of their limited resources to support their team. Ones that go to a game because they know fan support is crucial to providing environments like those in Seattle. Environments that make it extremely difficult for visiting teams to hear the snap counts and other similar things.

I'm also very skeptical that Florida and California have more fair weather fans than other states.

It's just a theory and I could be mistaken or only partially correct but like I said, come up with a credible alternative and I'll adjust my views if it's convincing to me. I thought the comments from Selassie I were excellent and I'm already rethinking my views. :cool:

Whenever I see trends i always look for common denominators. Give me, not the answer but an alternative. I don't believe in coincidences.
 

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albefree69 said:
jrry32 disagrees but has no alternative theory:
You're mistaken. I am from Florida and football is king here. College football and high school football have a ridiculous following. The pro teams in Florida in every sport have issues because people just don't support them as well...why? I don't know entirely. I'd say it's partially because so many are transplants and are fans of other NFL teams.

I'd say another issue is that the state is full of front-runners. When Miami Heat or the U are doing well, they have great attendance. When they aren't, the place is empty. A lot of band-wagon jumpers in the state.

Mentioning College foot ball is, like I said in a different post, not a convincing argument to me. How many of those fans at Miami University are from out of state? HS football is of course a different story but it doesn't go against the other part of my theory. I get the impression from your post and the other one that disagreed with me that you might have misunderstood my whole theory. The large percentage of Hispanics in both states that, IMO, have other sports priorities was only part of my theory.

The second part has to do with dividing scarce resources. They go hand in hand and can't be looked at separately. How much does it cost to attend a HS football game? Showing support to the school where your children are attending or where you once attended is completely different than paying big bucks to go see a game that you can enjoy just as well (some would say) on your TV screen in the comfort of your home. Going to really expensive games in person requires more than just liking your team. It takes people like the ones that post on this forum. People who love their team, through thick and thin, so much so that they're willing to use some of their limited resources to support their team. Ones that go to a game because they know fan support is crucial to providing environments like those in Seattle. Environments that make it extremely difficult for visiting teams to hear the snap counts and other similar things.

I'm also very skeptical that Florida and California have more fair weather fans than other states.

It's just a theory and I could be mistaken or only partially correct but like I said, come up with a credible alternative and I'll adjust my views if it's convincing to me. I thought the comments from Selassie I were excellent and I'm already rethinking my views. :cool:

Whenever I see trends i always look for common denominators. Give me, not the answer but an alternative. I don't believe in coincidences.
I can't speak for the Jax market, but the Dolphin following down here is large and its fans are diverse from an ethnic standpoint. The Marlins aren't largely supported because baseball blows in general (my opinion). When they were in the hunt for the Series, however, that park was full - which supports your bandwagon theory. But that, IMO, only relates to baseball. The Dolphins (and football in general) is huge down here, however. Isaac Bruce spoke about it in a recent interview that I posted here too. HS Football, that is.

I'm not sure what alternative you're looking for though, so I guess I'll have to go back and read so I can find out how we got to where we are here.
 

jrry32

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albefree69 said:
Mentioning College foot ball is, like I said in a different post, not a convincing argument to me. How many of those fans at Miami University are from out of state? HS football is of course a different story but it doesn't go against the other part of my theory. I get the impression from your post and the other one that disagreed with me that you might have misunderstood my whole theory. The large percentage of Hispanics in both states that, IMO, have other sports priorities was only part of my theory.

I have no idea how many of the U fans are from out of state. But the Florida and Florida State fans aren't.

And no offense but you're basing a theory on demographics. I live here. I grew up here. I've experienced it. Football is king here.

The Hispanic fans may have other priorities but that really has nothing to do with the attendance issues in the pro sports.
 

jrry32

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X said:
I can't speak for the Jax market, but the Dolphin following down here is large and its fans are diverse from an ethnic standpoint. The Marlins aren't largely supported because baseball blows in general (my opinion). When they were in the hunt for the Series, however, that park was full - which supports your bandwagon theory. But that, IMO, only relates to baseball. The Dolphins (and football in general) is huge down here, however. Isaac Bruce spoke about it in a recent interview that I posted here too. HS Football, that is.

I'm not sure what alternative you're looking for though, so I guess I'll have to go back and read so I can find out how we got to where we are here.

The Jaguars following here is a lot stronger than it's made out to be.

And yep, agreed. I think most anyone that's lived in Florida would tell you how big football is here. It's really big everywhere in the Southeast.
 

albefree69

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X asked:
I'm not sure what alternative you're looking for though, so I guess I'll have to go back and read so I can find out how we got to where we are here.

I'm just trying to understand why the NFL has so many problems with attendance in Florida and California.

At one time I suspected that over saturation was the common denominator. Both California and Florida have 3 teams. California used to have 4. That might be the real explanation. But then look at new York which also has 3 teams. It has no problem supporting them.

I don't know why it is but I do know this, there has to be something that's causing it and it is highly likely to be common to both areas and not common to the other states.

I'm always looking for answers to questions. I throw out a theory and if someone debunks it or comes up with a better alternative it's just as good as my original theory to me. I have no vested interest in being right, I'm only interested in finding a good answer. I think the NFL is interested in finding that answer too. If Jax moves to LA will they support the team there when they didn't support the Rams? If they don't then what? This is a very important issue IMO.

Jrry32 wrote:
I have no idea how many of the U fans are from out of state. But the Florida and Florida State fans aren't.

And no offense but you're basing a theory on demographics. I live here. I grew up here. I've experienced it. Football is king here.

The Hispanic fans may have other priorities but that really has nothing to do with the attendance issues in the pro sports.

No offense taken of course. :ww:

That was just one issue I have with using colleges to support your contention. I have also lived in Florida myself (Key West in 1964) but I bow to your superior knowledge of the area. I live in NH but I could never say I know how my fellow New Hampshirites think about something. I can only tell you how my circle of friends and acquaintances feel.

But you're right, I could be wrong. Tell me an alternative theory.

EDIT: I forgot to mention something that I meant to say. I never watch NBA games but I love to watch college basketball. What does that say?
 

jrry32

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albefree69 said:
No offense taken of course. :ww:

That was just one issue I have with using colleges to support your contention. I have also lived in Florida myself (Key West in 1964) but I bow to your superior knowledge of the area. I live in NH but I could never say I know how my fellow New Hampshirites think about something. I can only tell you how my circle of friends and acquaintances feel.

But you're right, I could be wrong. Tell me an alternative theory.

EDIT: I forgot to mention something that I meant to say. I never watch NBA games but I love to watch college basketball. What does that say?

That you have a reason to support a team in college that doesn't exist in the pros or that you don't enjoy the pro game.

Both of which are valid reasons. Maybe the teams here just haven't made a strong enough connections with the fans. Another issue is that there are many people from other states that have settled here. There are a lot of Steeler fans down here.

What reasons? Hard to come up with them. Florida State, Florida and the high schools get plenty of attendance. People around here are crazy about football. They don't allow JV teams to play on Saturdays because it interferes with college football.

Why don't they support the pros? I don't know. Why don't they support the MLB teams? Why don't they support the NHL team? It's just how things are down here.
 

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One of the reasons albesan is the area itself. There are others that have been mentioned too.

There is a lot to do here, and people are outside doing things a lot. During football season especially because while the weather up north and in the Midwest is terrible it is flawless here. I can go for weeks on end with the doors to the lanai open and never close them.

There is so much competition for someone's time and money that if a team isn't winning there are tons of other things to do with a couple of hundred bucks.

Also you can watch games on your phone these days.
 

albefree69

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jrry32 added:
That you have a reason to support a team in college that doesn't exist in the pros or that you don't enjoy the pro game.

Both of which are valid reasons. Maybe the teams here just haven't made a strong enough connections with the fans. Another issue is that there are many people from other states that have settled here. There are a lot of Steeler fans down here.

What reasons? Hard to come up with them. Florida State, Florida and the high schools get plenty of attendance. People around here are crazy about football. They don't allow JV teams to play on Saturdays because it interferes with college football.

Why don't they support the pros? I don't know. Why don't they support the MLB teams? Why don't they support the NHL team? It's just how things are down here.

That was a rhetorical question LOL. It was just my attempt to show that everyone should be wary of extrapolating too much from the fact that college and HS football is very popular.

The stuff in blue is demographics. Different ones than mine of course but I can see that being part of the problem. I'm not sure that would explain California though.

LesBaker weighed in:
One of the reasons albesan is the area itself. There are others that have been mentioned too.

There is a lot to do here, and people are outside doing things a lot. During football season especially because while the weather up north and in the Midwest is terrible it is flawless here. I can go for weeks on end with the doors to the lanai open and never close them.

There is so much competition for someone's time and money that if a team isn't winning there are tons of other things to do with a couple of hundred bucks.

All true Les but that still plays into the other half of my theory doesn't it? Lots of stuff that takes priority over football to spend your extra cash on. Unless your NFL football team is your priority.
 

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LesBaker said:
One of the reasons albesan is the area itself. There are others that have been mentioned too.

There is a lot to do here, and people are outside doing things a lot. During football season especially because while the weather up north and in the Midwest is terrible it is flawless here. I can go for weeks on end with the doors to the lanai open and never close them.

There is so much competition for someone's time and money that if a team isn't winning there are tons of other things to do with a couple of hundred bucks.

Also you can watch games on your phone these days.
Yep Les , you got it other states don't have the ocean the great weather competing with football.
After reading all of jrry's posts though, I'm beginning to wonder if the whole premise isn't flawed