Is Tim Barnes still an unsigned FA?

[LACHAMP46]

I think left tackle was the weakest position.

Agree to disagree. I think we'll soon find out which players are not NFL caliber.

 

[bubbaramfan]

No way GRob was worse than Barnes and I think McSnead thinks so too, Its why Barnes was the first to go and GRob still has chance

 

[BonifayRam]

How could the five different starting OG's in 2015 season & the four different starting OG's in 2016 get away without getting some of the nasty weak link blame stuff on them how could all that nasty land only on Tim Barnes?I was under the strong impression that it was the interior OG's full time assignment too to keep those DT's off of Gurley early too?

I know I am getting on in age with my eye-site but I was also convinced that in 2016 most of those major on target penetrations in our backfield came from the outer edges were OT Havenstein & Robinson were stationed to prevent such things.

I read somehwere that the biggest OL action taken by Snead & McVay was the fired our past 3 seasons starting LT. I also thought that I read that Snead paid major chunks $$34 million of our salary cap to secure a new LT. I have not seen any major signings to secure a new center . In addition I thought I read somewhere that our 2016 starting RT was relieved of his post too? I need to get new glasses so I can read the correct information from now on . So who was the new all pro starting center we signed in free agency again since that was our biggest weak link?

 

[Rams43]

How could the five different starting OG's in 2015 season & the four different starting OG's in 2016 get away without getting some of the nasty weak link blame stuff on them how could all that nasty land only on Tim Barnes?I was under the strong impression that it was the interior OG's full time assignment too to keep those DT's off of Gurley early too?

I know I am getting on in age with my eye-site but I was also convinced that in 2016 most of those major on target penetrations in our backfield came from the outer edges were OT Havenstein & Robinson were stationed to prevent such things.

I read somehwere that the biggest OL action taken by Snead & McVay was the fired our past 3 seasons starting LT. I also thought that I read that Snead paid major chunks $$34 million of our salary cap to secure a new LT. I have not seen any major signings to secure a new center . In addition I thought I read somewhere that our 2016 starting RT was relieved of his post too? I need to get new glasses so I can read the correct information from now on . So who was the new all pro starting center we signed in free agency again since that was our biggest weak link?

So, Bonifay...

Just to be clear. Are you saying that you think that the Barnes release was a mistake? Or that Barnes is the scapegoat for our OL shortcomings at other positions?

If so, I must strongly disagree.

There was plenty of blame to go around amongst those OL players last year. So much so, that I have to lay the overall problem at the feet of the coaches.

Even so, I think Barnes had to go. The new coaches obviously felt the same way. Sorry.

 

[Merlin]

If you look at the Rams' line last year there were more guys than Barnes who should be jobless now. I'm not gonna scapegoat him and act like the line's play was all his fault, but yeah he was pretty bad, definitely bottom third in terms of the bad stuff like penetration and missed blocks.

With a new staff they're looking to the future, and they simply looked at his cost and the fact he didn't play up to it and made the right call. And I've been saying this over and over, that they're gonna have to upgrade that particular position in the draft. Guys like Sullivan aren't a long term answer. We don't need another backup center, we need a starter.

And while they are going to work on moving guys over for competition, the good thing here is you can get a starting center into midrounds most drafts. That's what the Rams are gonna do, it's pretty obvious.

 

[Soul Surfer]

How could you have even a modicum of success in the passing game when the blindside protector allows consistent pressure and negates good plays with penalties?

I agree that the pocket collapsing is a big problem too but at least a quarterback can see the pressure coming and get rid of the ball.

Barnes graded 76.
Robinson graded 39 last year.
He stunk.

 

[BonifayRam]

So, Bonifay...

Just to be clear. Are you saying that you think that the Barnes release was a mistake? Or that Barnes is the scapegoat for our OL shortcomings at other positions?

If so, I must strongly disagree.

There was plenty of blame to go around amongst those OL players last year. So much so, that I have to lay the overall problem at the feet of the coaches.

Even so, I think Barnes had to go. The new coaches obviously felt the same way. Sorry.

Afternoon Rams43,
I posted that there were a large cadre of OL'ers that started & only one sent packing. 2 others starters were deemed unworthy of remaining in their previous 2 past seasons assigned OT posts. Thus the Ram Org saw weakness abounding on more than just one previously poorly paid starting center who was sent packing. Yes it was clear that the Rams had to come up with a large chunk of cap cash $$ in a great effort to fix an overall offensive weak link of a OL. Fans who have the belief that Tim Barnes was more of a weak link than any other starting Ram OL'er IMO are incorrect It was just the best move cap wise they could make.

Let me add this ....if one's opinion is based on using the fact that TB was the only fired Ram OL'er thus fully indicating that he alone was the clear Weakest Link....IMO would be an incorrect view. Does that work better in understanding my position?

Once McVay was hired the best talent of Tim Barnes & what he brought to the table was removed. McVay as the HC will make all OL calls when he calls the play so if a reserve larger stronger better overall OL'er who can learn to play center & will cost less than 1/3 of what Barnes would have cost we get improvement in one OL post! plus we gained cap $$. Its a smart good Org. move.

 

[bubbaramfan]

Evidently the new coaching staff thinks Barnes was not salvageable or they would have kept him. I agree with den, massive coaching failure..

Since Boudreau has been Ram OL coach, name me one player he has coached up, or made improvement in the whole O lines play. It regressed from 2015 to 2016. It should have improved

We have to wait and see what Kromer does with the OL before we make any more judgement on the Rams O linemen.

 

[Loyal]

Barnes was the fumble recovery specialist...gonna miss his hustle.

 

[Soul Surfer]

Robinson would have been dumped too but there was no money saved on his contract.

They figure keep him around and see if they can work him into a back-up position or a Guard.

As far as the Guards deserving blame, they all graded higher than Robinson.

* correction * Barnes graded at a 74.

 

[PARAM]

Shows you what PFF knows....

Yeah, they ranked Baltimore's special teams higher (#1) than the Rams (#3). Take a look at the numbers and it's incredible they aren't ranked 10 spots below the Rams. The only edge they had was their PK had more field goals than Zeurlein.

Punting average
Rams 47.8 (5th) / Baltimore 45.8 (15th)
Net average
Rams 46.2 (1st) / Baltimore 41.1 (17th)
Inside the 20
Rams 51 (1st) / Baltimore 37 (3rd t)
% inside the 20
Rams 65.4% / Baltimore 54.4%
PR average allowed?
Rams 4.3 (1st) / Baltimore 11.4 (29th)
PR average?
Rams 7.5 (22nd)/ Baltimore 7.7 (21st)
KR average?
Rams 23.9 (6th)/ Baltimore 22.7 (12th)
KR average allowed
Rams 19.5 (4th) / Baltimore 20.7 (10th)

FGs
Baltimore 38 of 39, 27 of 27 XP
Rams 19 of 22, 23 or 23

That there is some real good statistical analysis by PFF, eh? Barnes was rated just behind Saffold? I don't know if that says more about Saffold than it does Barnes.

 

[Soul Surfer]

PFF is a starting point. One that NFL teams use as well.

I used the numbers from PFF because they pretty much confirmed what I saw.
Though I do think Barnes got a bit of a high-grade I agree with the 39 for Robinson. He was awful and the first player they knew they had to replace with a high-quality free agent.

Done.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Many will disagree but i've always said i'd rather have an average player in the rotation who is durable over a good player who CONSISTENTLY can't stay on the field.
Barnes > Saffold
Brandon Gibson > Danario Alexander

For example...

 

[BonifayRam]

Many will disagree but i've always said i'd rather have an average player in the rotation who is durable over a good player who CONSISTENTLY can't stay on the field.
Barnes > Saffold
Brandon Gibson > Danario Alexander

For example...

Hard to find a reason to argue with you on this position. Particularly on the subject of the OL. For some time now the Rams OL has not been close to being the same starting cadre from game to game. The Ram basic Ram OL lineup under Paul Boudreau has nothing short of a disaster after a half decade under his supervision. Injuries continue to be the main culprit but PB's flipping & flopping from one post to another never settling in on a solid core of starters everything remained in a jumbled state. Barnes played started every game for 2 back to back seasons. Barnes foot injury in wk 10 might have placed some on the IR but Barnes wanted to remain in the lineup.

Cody Wichmann missed major halves of two back to back seasons with a high ankle sprain. Jamon Brown back to back seasons & IR with a badly broken leg & a surgically broken hand. Andrew Donnal had back to back season injuries with a knee that made him miss the later half of 2015 & then damaged his hip late in 2016 that required surgery when the season ended. Darrell Williams badly injured & damaged wrist & hand put him on the IR later-half of 2015 then cost him the entire 2016 season on the IR. The damaged Havenstein (in hindsight) should have just been placed on the IR at the beginning of the 2016 season it would have been best for all.

In truth Saffold had one of his better season remaining on the field with only 1 missed game but missing parts of 2 others too with a broken hand. Highly unusual for Saffold. Only starting OL'er remained in the lineup the entire 16 game season.....the now cut Tim Barnes.

 

[bubbaramfan]

Good post Boni. This is why we can't assume anything about the current OL. Coach Boo, for whatever reason, lost his ability to coach. No individual improvement, No continuity. Name me one OL player that has improved while Boo has been here.
So now we have to see what Kromer does, (and how long it takes given CBA rules). I can't believe all these new O linemen are busts. I still am not ready to throw GRob under the bus. He was so raw when he came to the Rams, and he's only had coach Boo (Who's a failure IMHO), so we could very well see GRob finally improve.
Starting such a young OL last year was a massive coaching mistake. Rams OL failure was more due to being green and inexperienced than lack of talent. no leadership, no vet experience, inept coaching.

All in all, I expect some talent to emerge, and some to get let go. This OL will look a lot different by the time the first game rolls around. Its apparent the new coaching staff saw the OL as the first order of business with the release of C Tim Barnes and the signing of Andrew Whitworth (and later John Sullivan) They have corrected the lack of leadership and veteran presence. No more getting "schooled" because all the linemen are new and clueless.

The OL is already better without a practice or playing a game.


P.S. Over the last 3 years, GRob is the most durable of the Rams OL. just sayin.

 

[BonifayRam]

Good post Boni. This is why we can't assume anything about the current OL. Coach Boo, for whatever reason, lost his ability to coach. No individual improvement, No continuity. Name me one OL player that has improved while Boo has been here.
So now we have to see what Kromer does, (and how long it takes given CBA rules). I can't believe all these new O linemen are busts. I still am not ready to throw GRob under the bus. He was so raw when he came to the Rams, and he's only had coach Boo (Who's a failure IMHO), so we could very well see GRob finally improve.
Starting such a young OL last year was a massive coaching mistake. Rams OL failure was more due to being green and inexperienced than lack of talent. no leadership, no vet experience, inept coaching.

All in all, I expect some talent to emerge, and some to get let go. This OL will look a lot different by the time the first game rolls around. Its apparent the new coaching staff saw the OL as the first order of business with the release of C Tim Barnes and the signing of Andrew Whitworth (and later John Sullivan) They have corrected the lack of leadership and veteran presence. No more getting "schooled" because all the linemen are new and clueless.

The OL is already better without a practice or playing a game.


P.S. Over the last 3 years, GRob is the most durable of the Rams OL. just sayin.

Lucky for Brown, Havenstein, Donnal,Wichmann & Williams they have only been tainted for 2 seasons under PB & are mid point in their contracts its possible to salvage these guys whereas GRob has had much more exposure to PB coaching & direction & is now in his last yr of his contract. Thus I see no reason to give GRob any serious special work or future planning too he will be gone when game 16 is done. Where as with the other four I can see where there a better reason to plan to work with these 4 OL'ers due to their low cost contracts & being here for another two season if they make this 2017 team.

If GRob does start somewhere else on this OL (I consider questionable) & does finally gives a good performance on the field (very doubtful)you will sure have an entire 2018 off season to remind me & make me eat my words.

 

[bubbaramfan]

I really hate to throw PB under the bus, but in five years its hard to find anything positive about his work with the Rams OL. No stand out player improvement, among the league's worst in all of his time as Rams OL coach.

Its hard for me to imagine Kromer doing worse, and I am hopefull he's good enough to turn some of these players into productive O linemen (GRob).

 

[Fatbot]

PFF is a starting point. ... I used the numbers from PFF because they pretty much confirmed what I saw. Though I do think Barnes got a bit of a high-grade I agree with the 39 for Robinson.

Heh this is a perfect example of why PFF is such a scam. The translation of how you are referencing their so-called grades is "they matter when I think they matter". Given that truth, you don't need PFF as a "starting point", just start and end with what you saw. PFF fake grades give no added weight or credibility to any discussion as the speaker always just uses them to support what they say and ignore when they don't, so no point.

 

[Rams43]

Afternoon Rams43,
I posted that there were a large cadre of OL'ers that started & only one sent packing. 2 others starters were deemed unworthy of remaining in their previous 2 past seasons assigned OT posts. Thus the Ram Org saw weakness abounding on more than just one previously poorly paid starting center who was sent packing. Yes it was clear that the Rams had to come up with a large chunk of cap cash $$ in a great effort to fix an overall offensive weak link of a OL. Fans who have the belief that Tim Barnes was more of a weak link than any other starting Ram OL'er IMO are incorrect It was just the best move cap wise they could make.

Let me add this ....if one's opinion is based on using the fact that TB was the only fired Ram OL'er thus fully indicating that he alone was the clear Weakest Link....IMO would be an incorrect view. Does that work better in understanding my position?

Once McVay was hired the best talent of Tim Barnes & what he brought to the table was removed. McVay as the HC will make all OL calls when he calls the play so if a reserve larger stronger better overall OL'er who can learn to play center & will cost less than 1/3 of what Barnes would have cost we get improvement in one OL post! plus we gained cap $$. Its a smart good Org. move.

Thanks for the clarification, BonifayRam.

We seem to be mostly singing from the same sheet of music, after all.