Interesting article on psychological assessment from combine

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Elmgrovegnome

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I have read that Snead was very interested in this tool, as I am sure most GMs were but could this explain part of this past drafts success with players that just seem to be football smart?


INDIANAPOLIS — For decades, hundreds of college players have gathered each year at the N.F.L.’s scouting combine, where their strength is tested, their speed is timed and, in a test to measure their intelligence, they are asked questions like “When a rope is selling 20 cents per 2 feet, how many feet can you buy for 30 dollars?”

That query is part of the Wonderlic Personnel Test, a 12-minute, 50-item quiz that has been used by N.F.L. teams since the 1970s. It is, however, infamously unreliable in predicting football success — forgettable players have scored high, stars low — and there have been quiet concerns that it has a racial bias.
So the players at this week’s combine are facing a new segment in their extended job interviews: an hourlong psychological assessment designed to determine and quantify the nebulous qualities that coaches have long believed make the most successful players — motivation, competitiveness, passion and mental toughness — and to divine how each player learns best. The new test, like the Wonderlic, is mandatory for the more than 300 players who attend, and it will be given for the first time Friday.
While many coaches and general managers consider the Wonderlic particularly useful in evaluating quarterbacks and offensive linemen, positions that are believed to demand the greatest intellect because of the need to decipher complex defenses, the hope is that the new test, called the Player Assessment Tool, will give teams clearer insight into a broader range of players.
“I knew players who didn’t score well on the Wonderlic but had great instincts,” said Ernie Accorsi, a former Giants general manager, who was consulted during the creation of the new test. “I had a player once, this guy played in a good league in college, but the psychological testing indicated he didn’t handle pressure well. You know what? He didn’t, as it turned out. The Wonderlic can’t tell you that.”
The new test was devised by Harold Goldstein, a professor of industrial and organizational psychology at Baruch College in New York. He worked with Cyrus Mehri, a lawyer in Washington who leads the Fritz Pollard Alliance, which monitors the N.F.L.’s minority hiring practices.
Personality tests have been a staple in other industries, and some N.F.L. teams have used them during their scouting efforts, which often take months. But last fall Goldstein and Mehri began the process of producing the first such test for the entire league. They asked a group of general managers what qualities they wanted in a player. They came up with 16 aspects thought to be predictors of N.F.L. success, including learning agility and conscientiousness.
The test closely resembles those given to firefighters, Mehri said, because they, like football players, must be able to quickly assess a situation and decide how to proceed under stress.
The goal was to eliminate the impact of prior knowledge — subjects taught in school, like math, in which racial and socioeconomic factors may have an influence.
To determine their personalities, the test will ask players a series of questions about their preferences and behavior. To evaluate their cognitive abilities, it might tell them to look at four diagrams and figure out how they relate. Then, to measure how quickly they can adjust their thinking, the items they are comparing might change, forcing the players to determine their relationships anew.
To see how they learn best, the test will present questions in verbal and graphic form. Players will have an hour to take the exam on a computer.
“How do you have Eli Manning scrambling for his life and throw that ball in the Super Bowl?” Mehri said, referring to Manning’s throw to David Tyree in the 2008 title game. “Aptitude tests suggest to me you’re testing how smart you are. It’s so much more than that.”
He added: “How do you capture that kind of playmaking in a test? You can’t figure that out the way the combine is now. How you handle pressure, your mental toughness. At least this can be a window into it.”
It is not easy to design a test that accurately predicts if a cornerback will be able to cover a wide receiver, or if a quarterback can learn how to find the hole in a defense with a pass rusher in his face.
“These tests will never capture or perfectly predict performance; they are always limited,” said Karen Blackmon, a clinical psychologist and research scientist at New York University. “Things like motivation are more difficult to capture than what we understand, like verbal and nonverbal learning. Motivation is nebulous, and it fluctuates over time. How do you test for mental toughness? I don’t really know.”
The league did not allow players and agents to see the test in advance, angering some agents. The N.F.L.’s goal was to minimize the kind of preparation that players do for the Wonderlic: reviewing past exams in an attempt to boost their scores.
“This is the Super Bowl of their college career, the culmination of everything they have worked for,” the agent David Canter said. “You don’t want them to be prepared for it?”
Damien Woody, a former offensive lineman for the New England Patriots, the Detroit Lions and the Jets, said he did not prepare for the Wonderlic, though he was determined to do well. He said others essentially shrugged it off, wondering what it had to do with football.
At least in the first year of the new test, Woody said, the element of surprise could be a factor.
“It might give you a sneak peek,” Woody said. “This will be the year it’s most beneficial because after this year I’m sure guys will try to train for it. This year, you’re going to get guys at their most vulnerable position.”
The plan is to give the results to teams in March, less than two months before the draft in late April. So the information they get about players will not influence their interviews, individual workouts and film study. Coaches have indicated they are most intrigued by the information about learning styles.
After the draft, teams will be asked for feedback about how useful the test was in the scheme of the vast information collected about players before the draft. The plan is to hone it for coming years.
Still, the test’s ability to predict whether a player is the next Peyton Manning or the next Ryan Leaf will probably not be known for at least a few years, after this class of players has had time to develop in a sport in which determination might have at least as much to do with success as a 40-yard dash.
“That’s the unlocked mystery,” Accorsi said, adding, “But in our game, more than any other because of the physical nature, there’s a key you try to unlock.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/22/s...ayers-mental-agility.html?pagewanted=all&_r=2&
 

Rams0307

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Someone posted this on STLToday's forum and I believe the poster even said he had a connection to Harold Goldstein, the orchestrator of this exam. The poster stated that the Rams were one of the teams that really embraced this new test.

We have a GM in Les Snead that gets it. I have a feeling he's going to be an extremely successful GM.
 

Merlin

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One thing I think they need a metric for is to find the types that live above their means and separate them from the competitive types. I am convinced that the "big payday" is half the problem with some of these guys, because they lose their edge, their primal motivation to play the game at a high level.

Draft players who are intensely competitive and you're going to find success IMO. I suppose the only way to do that is by getting inside info, REAL info, from the coaching staff. Which if I am a GM is something I'd push very hard to do whether it's scouts or even sending the Rams' positional coaches out to gather it with big travel accounts. Might even be wise to not use coaches, though, since they can fall in love with a player imagining what they would add to their group. I don't know.

But yeah I think there's a lot of garbage in their attempts to measure intelligence as it pertains to football. Terry Bradshaw is permanent living proof of how it just doesn't matter.
 

SteveBrown

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One thing I think they need a metric for is to find the types that live above their means and separate them from the competitive types. I am convinced that the "big payday" is half the problem with some of these guys, because they lose their edge, their primal motivation to play the game at a high level.

Draft players who are intensely competitive and you're going to find success IMO. I suppose the only way to do that is by getting inside info, REAL info, from the coaching staff. Which if I am a GM is something I'd push very hard to do whether it's scouts or even sending the Rams' positional coaches out to gather it with big travel accounts. Might even be wise to not use coaches, though, since they can fall in love with a player imagining what they would add to their group. I don't know.

But yeah I think there's a lot of garbage in their attempts to measure intelligence as it pertains to football. Terry Bradshaw is permanent living proof of how it just doesn't matter.
Bradshaw is one of the great, great all time throwers; but he routinely threw 25 pics a year....pics and intelligence have some preparation/intelligence connection (imho)
 

brokeu91

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I happen to know a great deal about personality testing. I used to do research on personality and aging and the aspects of personality in neurocognitive disorders such as Alzheimer's disease. My wife happens to know much more than I do, she does research in personality pathology including personality testing/metrics. My wife understands this much better than anyone I know and is truly considerned an expert in this field.

The one thing I learned in doing my own research along with discussions with my wife is that there can be some decent personality tests and some really crappy ones too. Since this test has not been published it's unclear how it was devised and what personality scales are being tested and in what way. I can tell you that I know who some of the best researchers in this area are and this person is NOT one of them. That does not necessarily mean anything, it could be a wonderful test, but I don't know. I would love it if Snead contacted my wife to devise this. There might be a handful of people in the entire world that I would trust to devise a personality test and my wife is one of them.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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I happen to know a great deal about personality testing. I used to do research on personality and aging and the aspects of personality in neurocognitive disorders such as Alzheimer's disease. My wife happens to know much more than I do, she does research in personality pathology including personality testing/metrics. My wife understands this much better than anyone I know and is truly considerned an expert in this field.

The one thing I learned in doing my own research along with discussions with my wife is that there can be some decent personality tests and some really crappy ones too. Since this test has not been published it's unclear how it was devised and what personality scales are being tested and in what way. I can tell you that I know who some of the best researchers in this area are and this person is NOT one of them. That does not necessarily mean anything, it could be a wonderful test, but I don't know. I would love it if Snead contacted my wife to devise this. There might be a handful of people in the entire world that I would trust to devise a personality test and my wife is one of them.

Is your wife hot with glasses too? I love it when a hot scientist or school teach wears glasses.

j/k

I was wondering about that too. What qualifies this guy to make the test. Maybe it is like an invention. If you think of it first and move on it then you get the money. Maybe he saw the potential to sell it to the NFL and now his foot is further through the door than anyone else's.

I wonder if your wife contacted Demoff and Snead and asked to meet with them about the topic. If she could convince the Rams that she was more qualified to create a more refined test then maybe they would contract her to use her test just for their own purposes. It could give them a competitive edge in the draft room......and everyone knows that all teams want that. Tell her to wear her glasses too. Couldn't hurt.;)
 

brokeu91

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Is your wife hot with glasses too? I love it when a hot scientist or school teach wears glasses.

j/k

I was wondering about that too. What qualifies this guy to make the test. Maybe it is like an invention. If you think of it first and move on it then you get the money. Maybe he saw the potential to sell it to the NFL and now his foot is further through the door than anyone else's.

I wonder if your wife contacted Demoff and Snead and asked to meet with them about the topic. If she could convince the Rams that she was more qualified to create a more refined test then maybe they would contract her to use her test just for their own purposes. It could give them a competitive edge in the draft room......and everyone knows that all teams want that. Tell her to wear her glasses too. Couldn't hurt.;)
Yes my wife is pretty damn cute and she wears glasses to work. I really got lucky with her, I definitely married above my station.

My wife would never contact Demoff/Snead, she's way too immersed in her own research. But if they contacted her I bet she would do it. The problem would be getting every combine invitee to take the test. I bet there would be a lot of people who would not take it. Plus my wife would want to do research on the test before she administered it for the NFL. That would give away the testing to people who might sell it to NFL agents to prep their clients.
 

LesBaker

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Someone posted this on STLToday's forum and I believe the poster even said he had a connection to Harold Goldstein, the orchestrator of this exam. The poster stated that the Rams were one of the teams that really embraced this new test.

We have a GM in Les Snead that gets it. I have a feeling he's going to be an extremely successful GM.

I'd argue that he already is based on how he has helped change the culture for the Rams and retooled the worst roster in the history of the NFL.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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Yes my wife is pretty damn cute and she wears glasses to work. I really got lucky with her, I definitely married above my station.

My wife would never contact Demoff/Snead, she's way too immersed in her own research. But if they contacted her I bet she would do it. The problem would be getting every combine invitee to take the test. I bet there would be a lot of people who would not take it. Plus my wife would want to do research on the test before she administered it for the NFL. That would give away the testing to people who might sell it to NFL agents to prep their clients.

Nah, the only ones that would need to take it would b select players that the Rams are targeting. It could be a Rams only tool.