Im 100% Wentz, please tell me why you like Goff

[PartyKane]

Because Jared Goff is better

 

[ramsince62]

I'm pleased to note that your convictions are firm.

 

[8to12]

I think Wentz is a perfect match for fisher and this team, big tough kid from a small school that looks like a great leader. He can also run and played in a very similar run heavy offense. Goff looks like a great QB prospect that has great feet, accuracy and feel for the pocket, BUT he does not fit our system and is more for a team with a pass heavy offense. SO please tell me why so many people honestly think the pick is Goff. not who looks better on tape or who 1000 espn evaluators think is better, just tell me WHY you think Goff is our guy .

Why? Because he is a tough SOB...... almost more mentally than physically. There is plenty of proof on tape that Goff gets pounded by defenses and he never cracks because of it. On the other hand Wents has great talent also, but there is NO proof on tape of him ever taking any kind of the punishment that Goff did to know how he will hold up against NFL type of pressure and pounding.

"But he does not fit our system" .... sorry, but I have to call BS on this. He is just as capable at running the Rams offense as Wentz could.

 

[Gandalf]

I think some top notch coordinators that have passed on us before will change their minds seeing that we actually have a top notch young quarterback that they can mold and an all world running back. Hopefully we will see a new OC and a new system.

 

[Mackeyser]

Why? Because he is a tough SOB...... almost more mentally than physically. There is plenty of proof on tape that Goff gets pounded by defenses and he never cracks because of it. On the other hand Wents has great talent also, but there is NO proof on tape of him ever taking any kind of the punishment that Goff did to know how he will hold up against NFL type of pressure and pounding.

"But he does not fit our system" .... sorry, but I have to call BS on this. He is just as capable at running the Rams offense as Wentz could.

A) the hits he took in the Pac-12 are nothing compared to the NFL. If he doesn't find a way to AVOID taking that kind of abuse at the next level, he won't BE at the next level. Period. NO QB in history can just...take it. Every QB who's played for any length of time has missed time. So, while I'm GLAD he didn't get injured, it's FAR more important to focus on him NOT getting hit than that he can take a hit because NO QB can take hits at the Pro level for long. Period.

B) Wentz took plenty of punishment, he just took more of the punishment when running than taking sacks. He's a big boy. And it makes a BIG difference that Goff has never lifted. He may be slippery, but he's not going to escape the grasp of a solid Pro DL who's pulling him down. It's going to take him time to build his legs up. Wentz has been lifting for some time. He's harder to take down. That just is.

C) Tell you what. If you can go back and you're comfortable with the offense the Rams ran the last 4 games of the season and think with a few better passes, we'd be golden...then more power to you. You have every right to that opinion. I've gone back and looked and looked and posted in detail why I believe that's not so. I'll spare everyone why I firmly and sadly believe this...again.

Goff's fine. This offense stinks. He basically does what Bradford and Austin Davis and Case Keenum and Foles did...only hopefully better. I dunno that this offense puts ANY of them in a position to be successful. Folks disagree and that's fine. My point was that a QB who offers another dimension covers up the obvious inadequacies in this scheme. They could go with a running QB and throw in Read-Option stuff, but...ugh. Let's all agree to just not. But having a pocket passer who CAN run as an option (I've brought up Wilson and Rodgers), well, that's a way to create mismatches as well as open up possibilities when plays break down as they have umpteen times in this offense.

I know it's about to be out turn on the clock and high times for folks to be super optimistic. I'm probably gonna really slow down on posting because why pee in people's corn flakes?

But the distinction isn't what you're making it...not that any of this matters...

 

[Mackeyser]

I think some top notch coordinators that have passed on us before will change their minds seeing that we actually have a top notch young quarterback that they can mold and an all world running back. Hopefully we will see a new OC and a new system.

The way they flocked to us to coach for Bradford???

 

[Force16X]

it'll be fine with goff or wentz. once drafted, then the Rams can zero in on a receiver in the next two rou.................................nevermind.

 

[jrry32]

The way they flocked to us to coach for Bradford???

They kind of did...

 

[Mackeyser]

Huh? This is what I was responding to... You think offensively Bradford drew offensive coaches (I know Fisher said he came here because we had a QB, but we also have stable, absentee owner ship...Miami is a dumpster fire)

From Gandalf "I think some top notch coordinators that have passed on us before will change their minds seeing that we actually have a top notch young quarterback that they can mold and an all world running back. Hopefully we will see a new OC and a new system."

I dunno. It's like I don't speak Pollyanna anymore. I don't relate to any of this...

 

[Gandalf]

Schottenheimer was one of the top OC available when the Rams hired him. Many people thought that he was certain to be a head coach in the future. He was the biggest name available and it was considered that he was a top coach that was added to Fishers star studded staff.
Here is an article from the time of the hire:
http://stlouis.sbnation.com/st-loui...ffensive-coordinator-new-york-jets/in/2469365

Fisher has pursued the top OCs available the last couple of years but has been turned down. I was merely stating that he might have better success now with either Wentz or Goff.
Maybe they still draft Wentz, it's still a week away from the draft.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Completion % while under oressure
Goff 58%
Wentz 28%
Nuff said.
The more I read the more I don't like Wentz.
But I think neither of the players were worth the amount the Rams paid for moving up. I think someone other then Fisher and Snead forced this trade. It is just puzzling why they drafted Mannion and then made this trade without even seeing him start.

Yes that's a telling stat. Although I'd like to see 1st down percentage for both qbs under pressure on 3rd down. The Rams completed alot of passes on 3rd down, unfortunately a few yards short of the 1st down marker.

Former gm bill polian said that teams knew if a player was any good after the first practice. Mark Schleref said after the first practice one year in Washington the players knew the 7th round qb was better than the 1st round qb. The Rams know if Mannion is the answer and their actions say he isn't.

.

 

[Mackeyser]

Schottenheimer was one of the top OC available when the Rams hired him. Many people thought that he was certain to be a head coach in the future. He was the biggest name available and it was considered that he was a top coach that was added to Fishers star studded staff.
Here is an article from the time of the hire:
http://stlouis.sbnation.com/st-loui...ffensive-coordinator-new-york-jets/in/2469365

Fisher has pursued the top OCs available the last couple of years but has been turned down. I was merely stating that he might have better success now with either Wentz or Goff.
Maybe they still draft Wentz, it's still a week away from the draft.

The very article you link talks about his modest success (not in a positive way). I know my memory is fading in spots, but I surely don't recall Schotty being a "top OC"...ever.... anywhere...

And, really.

I'll post a pic of me in a Brady jersey (I'm not buying it, just put it on at the store and snap a pic) if we draft Wentz...THAT'S HOW SURE I AM WE'RE DRAFTING GOFF. I'll do it at a store close to a hospital if that happens so I can get the burns treated quickly...

And I want us to draft Wentz. Goff is a Ram 100%. Not 99%. Not 99.9% 100.0000%

Think about what I'm saying here... If I were wrong, I'd have weeks of crow to eat AND... I'd have a picture on this forum of me in a Brady Jersey. I'd risk being waterboarded before I risked wearing a Brady jersey...

 

[Gandalf]

The very article you link talks about his modest success (not in a positive way). I know my memory is fading in spots, but I surely don't recall Schotty being a "top OC"...ever.... anywhere...

And, really.

I'll post a pic of me in a Brady jersey (I'm not buying it, just put it on at the store and snap a pic) if we draft Wentz...THAT'S HOW SURE I AM WE'RE DRAFTING GOFF. I'll do it at a store close to a hospital if that happens so I can get the burns treated quickly...

And I want us to draft Wentz. Goff is a Ram 100%. Not 99%. Not 99.9% 100.0000%

Think about what I'm saying here... If I were wrong, I'd have weeks of crow to eat AND... I'd have a picture on this forum of me in a Brady Jersey. I'd risk being waterboarded before I risked wearing a Brady jersey...

Everybody knows you want Wentz and everybody knows you think it will be Goff. You seem to be very upset about it.

 

[Mackeyser]

That's just it. I don't think it will be Goff. Deductive reasoning makes it a fait accompli. It's Goff. And if Asshole Face or Bruce Arians were our HC, I'd WANT it to be Goff. I'm not homering for Wentz in my advocacy.

I'll just be succinct, because a lot of new people are here and not everyone has been around me for 17 years like Les has (Holy crap @LesBaker, it's really been 17 years...).

1) I'm a YUUUGE Rams fan.

2) I'm a very, very analytical person.

3) I do my own homework and I stick to my guns, even if it means saying unpopular things. (I didn't make many friends evaluating Chris Long's footwork coming out of Virginia which was horrible, for example. I basically got shouted off of the Rampagers list...)

4) I believe that in the absence of reasons for subterfuge or misdirections, Coach Fisher has been remarkably direct and transparent.

5) I believe that HE believes there is a direct and linear causality in the Point analysis Les Snead shared. I believe that is logically fallacious and will lead to erroneous decision making going forward.

6) I believe that HE believes that he HAS found his OC for the future in Rob Boras and his offense of the future which he has touted regularly and with pride as has Les Snead.

7) I believe that HE believes that Boras' offense and his point analysis converge and the only thing missing is an accurate pocket passer...which is why they are so high on Goff.

8) My view based on my analysis is that the Boras offense is incomplete and does NOT fully have answers, not situationally, not from a personnel perspective and not schematically. Nor does the Point analysis absolve the offense of any responsibilities, fill any holes or fix any deficiencies.

9) As such, because there is NOT a linear causality in the Point analysis presented (at best it's a correlation), but they're are creating decision matrices as if there were (apparently), they are not going to address the structural deficiencies that prevent future growth and success in the near and long term.

What does that boil down to?

Looked at from high above, it's pretty easy to say, "woohoo, we got Gurley, Tavon, a young and gelling OL and still won 7 games in spite of terrible QB play". And that's true.

However, when I drill down into the details, I see it's not that simple. It's not as easy as "Add QB, stir, viola...instant success." There were REASONS for and beyond poor QB play that limited our success on offense.

So, as a huge Ram fan who's normally a pretty big pollyanna optimist at heart unless the facts just don't allow it, what else can I say when I see a future that isn't what the future is supposed to be when acquiring a Franchise QB? Rather, what do I say when it may resemble all to closely that of Sam Bradford for reasons both similar and dissimilar? You know...frustrated unrealized promise and a lack of organizational success due to umpteen reasons.

Do I just sit quiet? Shout from the roof tops "hey! I see something bad coming!" Pretend?

Honestly, I was really, really frustrated NOT because of either prospect (as I've said easily a dozen times now), but because the obvious decision was so obvious based on previous decisions (hiring Boras, bringing in Groh, touting the existing offense meant not fixing the structural flaws) as well as Fisher's previous successes (McNair, especially) and success in the division with QBs who can create outside the pocket such as Wilson or Kaepernick.

But now what? We won't know until September if what I'm saying is right. It would be tempting to try and say something during preseason if one were spiteful (I'm not) because Fisher always goes so Vanilla and thus especially the offense tends to look dreadful.

I'll be glad to be wrong, but I don't tend to be. Some people say they'd be glad to be wrong and really, in their heart hold on to that moment when they can say, "SEE, I told you so!" That's not me. That's never been me.

So, I'm kinda at a loss. I'm very much in the minority with respect to projecting a lack of success in the near term. I don't want to dampen people's enthusiasm or ruin people's fun. I certainly don't want to be a killjoy. But I don't know how to just "put on a happy face".

So, there it is. Not as succinct as I would have liked, but that word never described me well, anyway =)

 

[kurtfaulk]

That's just it. I don't think it will be Goff. Deductive reasoning makes it a fait accompli. It's Goff. And if Asshole Face or Bruce Arians were our HC, I'd WANT it to be Goff. I'm not homering for Wentz in my advocacy.

I'll just be succinct, because a lot of new people are here and not everyone has been around me for 17 years like Les has (Holy crap @LesBaker, it's really been 17 years...).

1) I'm a YUUUGE Rams fan.

2) I'm a very, very analytical person.

3) I do my own homework and I stick to my guns, even if it means saying unpopular things. (I didn't make many friends evaluating Chris Long's footwork coming out of Virginia which was horrible, for example. I basically got shouted off of the Rampagers list...)

4) I believe that in the absence of reasons for subterfuge or misdirections, Coach Fisher has been remarkably direct and transparent.

5) I believe that HE believes there is a direct and linear causality in the Point analysis Les Snead shared. I believe that is logically fallacious and will lead to erroneous decision making going forward.

6) I believe that HE believes that he HAS found his OC for the future in Rob Boras and his offense of the future which he has touted regularly and with pride as has Les Snead.

7) I believe that HE believes that Boras' offense and his point analysis converge and the only thing missing is an accurate pocket passer...which is why they are so high on Goff.

8) My view based on my analysis is that the Boras offense is incomplete and does NOT fully have answers, not situationally, not from a personnel perspective and not schematically. Nor does the Point analysis absolve the offense of any responsibilities, fill any holes or fix any deficiencies.

9) As such, because there is NOT a linear causality in the Point analysis presented (at best it's a correlation), but they're are creating decision matrices as if there were (apparently), they are not going to address the structural deficiencies that prevent future growth and success in the near and long term.

What does that boil down to?

Looked at from high above, it's pretty easy to say, "woohoo, we got Gurley, Tavon, a young and gelling OL and still won 7 games in spite of terrible QB play". And that's true.

However, when I drill down into the details, I see it's not that simple. It's not as easy as "Add QB, stir, viola...instant success." There were REASONS for and beyond poor QB play that limited our success on offense.

So, as a huge Ram fan who's normally a pretty big pollyanna optimist at heart unless the facts just don't allow it, what else can I say when I see a future that isn't what the future is supposed to be when acquiring a Franchise QB? Rather, what do I say when it may resemble all to closely that of Sam Bradford for reasons both similar and dissimilar? You know...frustrated unrealized promise and a lack of organizational success due to umpteen reasons.

Do I just sit quiet? Shout from the roof tops "hey! I see something bad coming!" Pretend?

Honestly, I was really, really frustrated NOT because of either prospect (as I've said easily a dozen times now), but because the obvious decision was so obvious based on previous decisions (hiring Boras, bringing in Groh, touting the existing offense meant not fixing the structural flaws) as well as Fisher's previous successes (McNair, especially) and success in the division with QBs who can create outside the pocket such as Wilson or Kaepernick.

But now what? We won't know until September if what I'm saying is right. It would be tempting to try and say something during preseason if one were spiteful (I'm not) because Fisher always goes so Vanilla and thus especially the offense tends to look dreadful.

I'll be glad to be wrong, but I don't tend to be. Some people say they'd be glad to be wrong and really, in their heart hold on to that moment when they can say, "SEE, I told you so!" That's not me. That's never been me.

So, I'm kinda at a loss. I'm very much in the minority with respect to projecting a lack of success in the near term. I don't want to dampen people's enthusiasm or ruin people's fun. I certainly don't want to be a killjoy. But I don't know how to just "put on a happy face".

So, there it is. Not as succinct as I would have liked, but that word never described me well, anyway =)

man, if that's succinct i'd hate to see you waffling on.

.

 

[Mackeyser]

man, if that's succinct i'd hate to see you waffling on.

.

If I ever finish any of the novels I'm working on, I'll totally give a shoutout to ROD.

 

[Mojo Ram]

That's just it. I don't think it will be Goff. Deductive reasoning makes it a fait accompli. It's Goff. And if Asshole Face or Bruce Arians were our HC, I'd WANT it to be Goff. I'm not homering for Wentz in my advocacy.

I'll just be succinct, because a lot of new people are here and not everyone has been around me for 17 years like Les has (Holy crap @LesBaker, it's really been 17 years...).

1) I'm a YUUUGE Rams fan.

2) I'm a very, very analytical person.

3) I do my own homework and I stick to my guns, even if it means saying unpopular things. (I didn't make many friends evaluating Chris Long's footwork coming out of Virginia which was horrible, for example. I basically got shouted off of the Rampagers list...)

4) I believe that in the absence of reasons for subterfuge or misdirections, Coach Fisher has been remarkably direct and transparent.

5) I believe that HE believes there is a direct and linear causality in the Point analysis Les Snead shared. I believe that is logically fallacious and will lead to erroneous decision making going forward.

6) I believe that HE believes that he HAS found his OC for the future in Rob Boras and his offense of the future which he has touted regularly and with pride as has Les Snead.

7) I believe that HE believes that Boras' offense and his point analysis converge and the only thing missing is an accurate pocket passer...which is why they are so high on Goff.

8) My view based on my analysis is that the Boras offense is incomplete and does NOT fully have answers, not situationally, not from a personnel perspective and not schematically. Nor does the Point analysis absolve the offense of any responsibilities, fill any holes or fix any deficiencies.

9) As such, because there is NOT a linear causality in the Point analysis presented (at best it's a correlation), but they're are creating decision matrices as if there were (apparently), they are not going to address the structural deficiencies that prevent future growth and success in the near and long term.

What does that boil down to?

Looked at from high above, it's pretty easy to say, "woohoo, we got Gurley, Tavon, a young and gelling OL and still won 7 games in spite of terrible QB play". And that's true.

However, when I drill down into the details, I see it's not that simple. It's not as easy as "Add QB, stir, viola...instant success." There were REASONS for and beyond poor QB play that limited our success on offense.

So, as a huge Ram fan who's normally a pretty big pollyanna optimist at heart unless the facts just don't allow it, what else can I say when I see a future that isn't what the future is supposed to be when acquiring a Franchise QB? Rather, what do I say when it may resemble all to closely that of Sam Bradford for reasons both similar and dissimilar? You know...frustrated unrealized promise and a lack of organizational success due to umpteen reasons.

Do I just sit quiet? Shout from the roof tops "hey! I see something bad coming!" Pretend?

Honestly, I was really, really frustrated NOT because of either prospect (as I've said easily a dozen times now), but because the obvious decision was so obvious based on previous decisions (hiring Boras, bringing in Groh, touting the existing offense meant not fixing the structural flaws) as well as Fisher's previous successes (McNair, especially) and success in the division with QBs who can create outside the pocket such as Wilson or Kaepernick.

But now what? We won't know until September if what I'm saying is right. It would be tempting to try and say something during preseason if one were spiteful (I'm not) because Fisher always goes so Vanilla and thus especially the offense tends to look dreadful.

I'll be glad to be wrong, but I don't tend to be. Some people say they'd be glad to be wrong and really, in their heart hold on to that moment when they can say, "SEE, I told you so!" That's not me. That's never been me.

So, I'm kinda at a loss. I'm very much in the minority with respect to projecting a lack of success in the near term. I don't want to dampen people's enthusiasm or ruin people's fun. I certainly don't want to be a killjoy. But I don't know how to just "put on a happy face".

So, there it is. Not as succinct as I would have liked, but that word never described me well, anyway =)

Mack, none of this will matter when we pick Wentz.

 

[-X-]

That's just it. I don't think it will be Goff. Deductive reasoning makes it a fait accompli. It's Goff. And if Asshole Face or Bruce Arians were our HC, I'd WANT it to be Goff. I'm not homering for Wentz in my advocacy.

I'll just be succinct, because a lot of new people are here and not everyone has been around me for 17 years like Les has (Holy crap @LesBaker, it's really been 17 years...).

1) I'm a YUUUGE Rams fan.

2) I'm a very, very analytical person.

3) I do my own homework and I stick to my guns, even if it means saying unpopular things. (I didn't make many friends evaluating Chris Long's footwork coming out of Virginia which was horrible, for example. I basically got shouted off of the Rampagers list...)

4) I believe that in the absence of reasons for subterfuge or misdirections, Coach Fisher has been remarkably direct and transparent.

5) I believe that HE believes there is a direct and linear causality in the Point analysis Les Snead shared. I believe that is logically fallacious and will lead to erroneous decision making going forward.

6) I believe that HE believes that he HAS found his OC for the future in Rob Boras and his offense of the future which he has touted regularly and with pride as has Les Snead.

7) I believe that HE believes that Boras' offense and his point analysis converge and the only thing missing is an accurate pocket passer...which is why they are so high on Goff.

8) My view based on my analysis is that the Boras offense is incomplete and does NOT fully have answers, not situationally, not from a personnel perspective and not schematically. Nor does the Point analysis absolve the offense of any responsibilities, fill any holes or fix any deficiencies.

9) As such, because there is NOT a linear causality in the Point analysis presented (at best it's a correlation), but they're are creating decision matrices as if there were (apparently), they are not going to address the structural deficiencies that prevent future growth and success in the near and long term.

What does that boil down to?

Looked at from high above, it's pretty easy to say, "woohoo, we got Gurley, Tavon, a young and gelling OL and still won 7 games in spite of terrible QB play". And that's true.

However, when I drill down into the details, I see it's not that simple. It's not as easy as "Add QB, stir, viola...instant success." There were REASONS for and beyond poor QB play that limited our success on offense.

So, as a huge Ram fan who's normally a pretty big pollyanna optimist at heart unless the facts just don't allow it, what else can I say when I see a future that isn't what the future is supposed to be when acquiring a Franchise QB? Rather, what do I say when it may resemble all to closely that of Sam Bradford for reasons both similar and dissimilar? You know...frustrated unrealized promise and a lack of organizational success due to umpteen reasons.

Do I just sit quiet? Shout from the roof tops "hey! I see something bad coming!" Pretend?

Honestly, I was really, really frustrated NOT because of either prospect (as I've said easily a dozen times now), but because the obvious decision was so obvious based on previous decisions (hiring Boras, bringing in Groh, touting the existing offense meant not fixing the structural flaws) as well as Fisher's previous successes (McNair, especially) and success in the division with QBs who can create outside the pocket such as Wilson or Kaepernick.

But now what? We won't know until September if what I'm saying is right. It would be tempting to try and say something during preseason if one were spiteful (I'm not) because Fisher always goes so Vanilla and thus especially the offense tends to look dreadful.

I'll be glad to be wrong, but I don't tend to be. Some people say they'd be glad to be wrong and really, in their heart hold on to that moment when they can say, "SEE, I told you so!" That's not me. That's never been me.

So, I'm kinda at a loss. I'm very much in the minority with respect to projecting a lack of success in the near term. I don't want to dampen people's enthusiasm or ruin people's fun. I certainly don't want to be a killjoy. But I don't know how to just "put on a happy face".

So, there it is. Not as succinct as I would have liked, but that word never described me well, anyway =)

Couldn't read it all. I get too distracted.

 

[Athos]

If you have to/want to/like to pick QBs that "fit" "your system" then you should pack it up, stop being involved in the game of football, and probably retire to a nice tropical island with no internet or cable.

System drafts at QB when we're taking serious talent is the dumbest I will ever hear for this sport. You choose the best QB out there and go about adapting your "system" to take full advantage of the most important players abilities. And by abilities, I mean passing, not that hilarious RGMe shot where they run him like an college option QB.

You should all be tired of the "system" of offense this team has had since the last member of the GSOT left.