If Schottenheimer really is THAT bad...

[MrMotes]

Fisher should be fired?

Not this year, but if he can't put a winning team on the field, absolutely.

 

[DR RAM]

Not this year, but if he can't put a winning team on the field, absolutely.

Oh, Shotty. I think that might be up for discussion, but until you do it, that's a tough discussion, hard job.

Harder solution.

 

[MrMotes]

Oh, Shotty. I think that might be up for discussion, but until you do it, that's a tough discussion, hard job.

Harder solution.

I could see Fisher replacing Shotty after this year but i'm not sure i see it making a big difference. If we're going to succeed under Fisher (imo of course) it's going to be with really great defense. And though it may not be a lock, i think that's a very real possibility...

 

[jrry32]

I could see Fisher replacing Shotty after this year but i'm not sure i see it making a big difference. If we're going to succeed under Fisher (imo of course) it's going to be with really great defense. And though it may not be a lock, i think that's a very real possibility...

I could really see us having an effective offense...even under Schotty. But we need a QB. I don't think it's crazy to believe our offense could have been a middle of the pack unit this year with a league average starting QB. And if we can shore up the IOL in the off-season, maybe add a weapon somewhere, and allow our young players to continue to grow...I think we have a lot of upside on offense. We just need a QB. Bradford can be the guy...but he has to stay on the field. Which means we need a Plan B behind Bradford...a real Plan B. Not a standard backup QB like Hill.

 

[Jumava1968]

It does get frustrating watching our offense sputter more often than not.But I try to give them and mostly our OC the benefit of the doubt because of QB our problem.IMO I think a healthy Bradford this year would have resulted in a much better offense all around which in turn would help our Defense as well.Fisher might be holding on to that hope that Bradford makes it back and does well with this offense that by now he knows inside out.

 

[OnceARam]

Yeah, it's hard to pin things on Schotty. He's won with a parade of backup quality QBs.

 

[LesBaker]

I am posting this without reading the entire thread. I'm completely plastered drunk on vodka, and I'm pissed at my wife because she criticized my pre Thanksgiving shopping on my day off. So if any of y'all disagree you can kiss my pimply white behind. (with all due respect of course)

So it's 1st and goal on the 6(?) yard line with 1:40 left in the game? (I'm completely going off drunken memory, help me out here assholes!) 1st down run for 2.5 yards give or take. 2nd down throw into double coverage for a INT? Why not run again, burn time off the clock, run again to try for a TD, if not there, kick a FG to tie. Why throw into coverage?

I'm tanked out of my gourd, if any of this doesn't make sens or is wrong, please feel free to correct it. BTW kiss my ass.

 

[thirteen28]

It's not that he's horrible, it's just that he's not that good. As a playcaller, he seems to choke in critical situations (like the last play in SD). Furthermore, like some players, he disappears for long stretches during a game, seemingly unable to get into the flow of the game, maintain situational awareness, and make adjustments. We expect our players to play well for 60 minutes, why don't we expect the same of our OC?

And while you have to give him the benefit of the doubt for having had to deal with a lot of backup QB's here in StL and mediocre ones with the NYJ, even that can be used to illustrate some of his deficiencies. More than once (Sunday was another example) he has gotten away from the running game when it was working to emphasize the pass with a backup QB who is struggling.

His inability to get Tavon more involved in the passing game is maddening, as I have little doubt there are other OC's who could be real creative with his special skill set.

And for fck's sake, why does it take guys so long to learn this offense? Is the nomenclature too complicated, or is he just not a very good teacher? Martz came in, and in one offseason installed a new offense and had it running at a high level right out of the gate. Our WR2 (Holt) was a rookie, our WR3 (Hakim) as a second year guy learning his second new offense in two years. Both played at a very high level in their first year in the new offense. Faulk was also learning a new offense, and missed part of training camp. The only major skill position guy who had run the offense before was Trent Green, and we know what happened to him. Yet his backup came in and became league MVP. All this with guys in their first year of a new offense. Now I don't expect that kind of performance with our players even after a few years, but it just seems like it takes a painfully long time for guys to get Schotty's offense down, and the Martz example is here to illustrate that it doesn't necessarily have to take that long to get guys playing a new offense proficiently.

So to sum up, while I don't think Schotty is horrible, I simply can't help but feel we could do a whole lot better.

 

[goldenram]

Only QB to EVER make Schotty's Offense look good and it's only because they didn't use Schotty's Offense..... After about the first few games in 2008, they used the FAVRE version of play calling. They finished 9-7 while losing 4 of the last 5 games after Favre hurt his arm. If Favre wouldn't have hurt his arm they would have made the playoffs that year. Other than that year, well.... less than average to say the least.....
Is the Offense Too Complex?
Schottenheimer’s offense requires a great deal of input from the QB. T hey are expected to make crucial calls at the line and have the ability to change plays. Pennington, known for his smarts, made the worst decisions of his career running the Jets offense. Even when he had a good offensive line protecting him in 2006 his adjusted interception rate was below average and he is a QB that is far above average in this category. The same problems existed with Brett Favre. Favre, never known as a brain surgeon, looked lost based on how often he turned it over. People chalked it up to constant pressure and the “gunslinger” mentality, but that does not look to be the case. He is sacked far more often in Minnesota this year than he was in 2008 as a Jet (23.35% to -0.55%) yet his interceptions in Minnesota are non existent dropping from an obscene 72.31% as a Jet to an amazing -67.96% as a Viking. And Favre was most definitely not a gunslinger, posting the worst YPC and YPA in the three year span, despite no real change in completion percentage. There is a good chance that he simply could not grasp what they were trying to teach him and it led to terrible decisions.

 

[blue4]

I don't like how Shotty gets outcoached after halftime.

He's predictable at times, more so than most.

I don't know if it is him or Fisher, but clock management when down in the 4th quarter is awful, like high school science teacher coaching small town football for extra cash awful.

I don't see why it's so hard to involve Tavon.

However, he deserves credit for how prepared and playbook knowledgeable his backup QBs are. Davis struggled with the blitz, but he looked to have good command of the team and playbook, presnap.

 

[MrMotes]

The only QB to ever play well in BS's offense is Brett Favre and he already had had a HOF career.

Where are Schotty's success stories? Who has he ever developed into a probowler?

All he's ever done is take high draft picks and make them appear to be busts...

 

[drasconis]

While he occassionaly get creative and shows glimmers of being good he is to far in his career to assume it will be a regular thing. Yes for stretches in any game he seems to havea plan and the team does well. The trouble is that I have yet to see an entire game where his calls have made sense.
He also seems to fight against the conventional wisdom when called for. We actually geta good lead and should go run heavy - nope. Down by a lot and the clock ticking down, need to go quick - nope.
It shouldn't take years to figure out how to properly use someone like TA, don't care if he is a slow learner - he is capable of something.
Schot has lived off his Dads rep, and honestly replacing him would do more good than harm. Yes it is new system - but hopefully one that makes sense - to us and the players.

 

[goldenram]

The only QB to ever play well in BS's offense is Brett Favre and he already had had a HOF career.

Where are Schotty's success stories? Who has he ever developed into a probowler?

All he's ever done is take high draft picks and make them appear to be busts...

??Who will be his next VICTIM??

 

[goldenram]

Oh, and if Schotty's offense is SO complex as to why NO ONE is able to excel under it.... Don't know of many Rocket Scientist playing QB. Lets find someone that's on the same level as our other coaches and players.

 

[MrMotes]

Nothing beats a complex low scoring offense...

 

[BadCompany]

I think we have been stuck with him because of Bradford.

Fisher said he came here in large part because of Sam. In trying to keep some consistency around him, he's keep Schotty around to help develop Bradford.

I think (no I really hope), that if we draft a new QB for the future this year, we'll go a new direction with a OC as well.

I guess that would be my biggest concern should they decide to replace Schotty. We kept hearing that changing OCs was holding Bradford back all those years, and that once he got some consistency with an offensive scheme he was going to be lights out. Then we more or less heard the same thing with regards to Quick and Austin, how they weren't really going to get it until their third year or so. Even Robinson and Mason needed a few games before the coaching staff decided he had learned enough to be trusted in the starting lineup. So if they switch OCs does that mean some of the key guys are going to need 5-6 games, if not more, to figure it out? I'm diagnosing from a distance here, but neither Quick nor Austin seem like the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree - if we lose yet another half of season because the offense is sputtering to learn a new system...

Or maybe as suggested above, maybe Schotty's system is too complicated. But that doesn't explain Bradford's early struggles with new coordinators...

How quickly, realistically, can the players we have get up to speed with a new system and how badly, if at all, would a new system impact our won-loss record at the beginning of next year?

 

[ChrisW]

I guess that would be my biggest concern should they decide to replace Schotty. We kept hearing that changing OCs was holding Bradford back all those years, and that once he got some consistency with an offensive scheme he was going to be lights out. Then we more or less heard the same thing with regards to Quick and Austin, how they weren't really going to get it until their third year or so. Even Robinson and Mason needed a few games before the coaching staff decided he had learned enough to be trusted in the starting lineup. So if they switch OCs does that mean some of the key guys are going to need 5-6 games, if not more, to figure it out? I'm diagnosing from a distance here, but neither Quick nor Austin seem like the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree - if we lose yet another half of season because the offense is sputtering to learn a new system...

Or maybe as suggested above, maybe Schotty's system is too complicated. But that doesn't explain Bradford's early struggles with new coordinators...

How quickly, realistically, can the players we have get up to speed with a new system and how badly, if at all, would a new system impact our won-loss record at the beginning of next year?

Bradford had to deal with both Mchoody and Schotty. I believe both of these guys run 2 of the most complex systems in the NFL.

Some of these offenses like Chip Kelly has incorporate a small amount of "bread n' butter" plays and the rest are schemed for the upcoming week.

If you look at a guy like Dana Holgorsen, he said that he could install his whole offense in 3 days of practice. The rest of the time would be perfecting it. So not all guys have offenses that are overly complex. Also it's worth nothing, that Holgorsen's offense only takes that long to install in College, but if he made the transition to the NFL, he'd most likely have to change some things, and it would become a little bit more complex.

 

[dieterbrock]

Nothing beats a complex low scoring offense...

Its so complex in fact that there's only a handful of people who can figure it out.
Unfortunately those people are the opposing defense

 

[LesBaker]

Schottenheimer’s offense requires a great deal of input from the QB. T hey are expected to make crucial calls at the line and have the ability to change plays.

That was the problem that Bradford had with McDaniels scheme. He was required to make the line call after looking over the D and he wasn't able to do it.

 

[den-the-coach]

I could really see us having an effective offense...even under Schotty. But we need a QB. I don't think it's crazy to believe our offense could have been a middle of the pack unit this year with a league average starting QB. And if we can shore up the IOL in the off-season, maybe add a weapon somewhere, and allow our young players to continue to grow...I think we have a lot of upside on offense. We just need a QB. Bradford can be the guy...but he has to stay on the field. Which means we need a Plan B behind Bradford...a real Plan B. Not a standard backup QB like Hill.

Trade up draft Winston let Schottenheimer go and hire Rod Chudzinski currently an offensive consultant with the Colts because he did a nice job with Cam Newton and with Winston at QB and Chud calling the plays Winston stays out of trouble all Ram fans will rejoice.