Identifying the best player fit at each position for the Rams in the draft

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So Ram

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One thing you will immediately notice this pre-season, Randolph has incredible range...and is a violent tackler. I don't think Joyner is close to him as an impact player.

What are you going off of ?? If it was his time with The Vol's , you have to question the evaluation for sure.
--32 NFL teams passed on him through 7 rds. Those are suppose to be the best minds in football.
I'm not saying your wrong , because he got hurt last year before I could see how he was going to do at the next level. The thing is , now he is coming off an injury.Then again he got a year of Inside NFL experience in . He gets time to build his core.
 

LACHAMP46

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What are you going off of ?? If it was his time with The Vol's , you have to question the evaluation for sure.
--32 NFL teams passed on him through 7 rds. Those are suppose to be the best minds in football.
Preseason...Player quotes...Ram notes from reporters....I'm telling you, Brian Randolph was gonna make an impact until his injury.

I don't know why some players are passed over in the draft...Why some players get love and last in the league...It's not strictly talent...That's for sure...Case Keenum was drafted correct?

I don't believe these are the "best" football minds making decisions either...Rather, the best connected mind, gets to make decisions. Several teams are perennial losers....The Rams are that now...Yet, we have great football minds making the calls on draft day, correct? I'll just look at the current state of our 2nd and 3rd round picks over the last few years. The foundation of the team...Tell me one great 2nd round pick playing for us? Tell me a 3rd?
 

JKBOGEN

JAKE OLIVER ELLENBOGEN
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One thing you will immediately notice this pre-season, Randolph has incredible range...and is a violent tackler. I don't think Joyner is close to him as an impact player.
Randolph loves how he has become an afterthought. Been talking to him, he really believes he fits Wade's D.
 

LACHAMP46

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Randolph loves how he has become an afterthought. Been talking to him, he really believes he fits Wade's D
I'd imagine so....I still remember a clip I saw of him...when he was questioning why everyone thought he was slow. He plays a lil like Darrian Stewart too....
 

jrry32

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One thing you will immediately notice this pre-season, Randolph has incredible range...and is a violent tackler. I don't think Joyner is close to him as an impact player.

Yet, Joyner was the far better safety in college. Hit just as hard, better range, better versatility, and better cover skills.

I'd love for Randolph to break out. It will only help us to have three quality safeties (Joyner, Alexander, and Randolph). But you really need to stop selling Joyner short (no pun intended). Your criticisms of him are often biased.
 
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LACHAMP46

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Your criticisms of him are often biased.
Criticisms are often looked at as biases. Mine are based on what I have witnessed. The guy is awful in man to man coverage in the slot. He has no ball skills, his technique is based on grabbing his man and trailing him and making a tackle. He doesn't look for the ball in the air.

Yet, Joyner was the far better safety in college. Hit just as hard, better range, better versatility, and better cover skills.
Too bad I'm basing his play on what he's done in the pros....I am projecting Rhino will be the better pro...His skills translate.
I won't get into the fact FSU had/has better players on the field around him.
 

jrry32

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Criticisms are often looked at as biases. Mine are based on what I have witnessed. The guy is awful in man to man coverage in the slot. He has no ball skills, his technique is based on grabbing his man and trailing him and making a tackle. He doesn't look for the ball in the air.

Your criticisms are based on your preference for H/W/S athletes. The criticisms you're posting here are inaccurate and insulting towards Joyner. The guy who is awful in man to man coverage in the slot gave up only 8.5 yards per reception and 1 TD on the season. He played one of the most important positions on a third down defense that ranked top 10 in the NFL. If that's awful, 60% of the NFL are awful players.

Too bad I'm basing his play on what he's done in the pros....I am projecting Rhino will be the better pro...His skills translate.
I won't get into the fact FSU had/has better players on the field around him.

Which is absolutely silly. Randolph hasn't played a snap in the pros. Joyner has played slot CB in the pros, not FS. Yet, Joyner has played slot CB well in the NFL after being a better FS in college than Randolph. You're favoring Randolph because he's a H/W/S athlete. The film certainly doesn't favor him.

In fact, I'm having a hard time understanding how Randolph's inferior college skills translate...
 

JKBOGEN

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Guys I don't mean to intrude on ROD and understand if this gets taken down but on our facebook we are doing a Downtown Rams Community Live Mock Draft. I still need to fill these teams below.

New York Jets
Arizona Cardinals
Minnesota Vikings
Baltimore Ravens
Detroit Lions
Miami Dolphins
Atlanta Falcons

If anyone wants in, the rules are simple. We draft 7 rounds, no trading and no time limit. It starts Monday and goes until we finish. Thanks again guys. If you want in just reply who you want and comment under our pinned post on facebook. The facebook page is www.facebook.com/DowntownRams/
 

LACHAMP46

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Your criticisms are based on your preference for H/W/S athletes. The criticisms you're posting here are inaccurate and insulting towards Joyner. The guy who is awful in man to man coverage in the slot gave up only 8.5 yards per reception and 1 TD on the season. He played one of the most important positions on a third down defense that ranked top 10 in the NFL.
While I do like H/W/S...I'm critiquing Joyner on his play...that I've witnessed for 3 seasons. That has coaches wanting him moved to FS. If he was as good as you say, I'd think the new staff would keep him in his same role. Yet, his replacement is signed outta FA....I'm sure he wasn't targeted around the redzone because of the other weak links in the secondary. Stats don't tell the whole story in the secondary... but several do paint a picture...you like the 8.5 yards per reception. Not sure why...I like the % of completed passes allowed...the number of 3rd down conversions allowed....pass break ups...oh yea, my favorite is interceptions...

Which is absolutely silly. Randolph hasn't played a snap in the pros. Joyner has played slot CB in the pros, not FS. Yet, Joyner has played slot CB well in the NFL after being a better FS in college than Randolph. You're favoring Randolph because he's a H/W/S athlete.
Well, I can see what Joyner is....I don't really know what Randolph is, but I've got a good feeling. Some can tell a lot about guys in preseason...some can't see anything....or make up what they think they're seeing. I don't know if Joyner was a better FS than Randolph in college? I don't....I mostly saw Joyner do what he's doing now...man to man....seemed grabby back then too. And again, Joyner played with more pro's on his side than Randolph. That just implies...to me...that Joyner had an easier time in college...on his defense. If Joyner is playing slot corner well, I'd hate to see what happens if his play drops off.
 

jrry32

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While I do like H/W/S...I'm critiquing Joyner on his play...that I've witnessed for 3 seasons. That has coaches wanting him moved to FS. If he was as good as you say, I'd think the new staff would keep him in his same role. Yet, his replacement is signed outta FA....I'm sure he wasn't targeted around the redzone because of the other weak links in the secondary. Stats don't tell the whole story in the secondary... but several do paint a picture...you like the 8.5 yards per reception. Not sure why...I like the % of completed passes allowed...the number of 3rd down conversions allowed....pass break ups...oh yea, my favorite is interceptions...

That's fallacious logic for two reasons. First, being an above average to good slot CB doesn't mean he won't be a better FS. If he's a better FS, it makes perfect sense to sign a guy like Nickell Robey on the cheap and move Joyner, which kills two birds with one stone. I've been saying for years that Joyner is a better FS. Second, this is a new scheme with new responsibilities (i.e., it's not the same role). Joyner's skill-set might not (and likely doesn't) fit the new scheme at slot CB as well as it did Williams's bend but don't break defense.

Yes, I like yards per reception and TDs allowed. I also like completion percentage allowed. All combine to tell me how effective a CB is in his role. We played a bend but don't break defense under GW. Thus, completion percentage allowed is going to tend to be high for our DBs. Thus, the question of whether they're doing their job or not will be answered by yards per reception allowed and TDs allowed. Joyner's metrics clearly show that he was doing his job. A yards per reception stat of below 10 is outstanding. And only allowing one TD on the year is also outstanding.

You can fixate on pass break-ups and interceptions, but I prioritize not allowing TDs over interceptions. You claim that teams targeted weaker links in the red-zone. Would that be players like Trumaine Johnson? Because Tru allowed four TDs on the year compared to Joyner's one.

As for third down conversions allowed, feel free to look for yourself where the Rams ranked over the past two years:
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-third-down-conversion-pct
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-third-down-conversion-pct?date=2016-02-08

If Joyner was such a weak link, why weren't teams able to successfully pick on him on third downs? That's when teams often go to the slot WR.

Well, I can see what Joyner is....I don't really know what Randolph is, but I've got a good feeling. Some can tell a lot about guys in preseason...some can't see anything....or make up what they think they're seeing. I don't know if Joyner was a better FS than Randolph in college? I don't....I mostly saw Joyner do what he's doing now...man to man....seemed grabby back then too. And again, Joyner played with more pro's on his side than Randolph. That just implies...to me...that Joyner had an easier time in college...on his defense. If Joyner is playing slot corner well, I'd hate to see what happens if his play drops off.

No, you really can't see what Joyner is. You're blind to what Joyner is because you judged the book by its cover. You decided that Joyner didn't have the athletic attributes that you think are necessary to succeed, and you wrote him off because of it. You ignore information that contradicts that perspective of him and prioritize information that backs it.

And yes, you do have a good feeling about Randolph because he has the exact H/W/S attributes that you think should make him great. Again, you're judging a book by its cover.

Champ, I like and respect you, but you have a tendency to make a determination on the worth of a player based on his physical attributes and refuse to come off of it.(both for guys who have the attributes and guys who don't)
 

LACHAMP46

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Lolololololol

Love it @jrry32

I like guys with h/w/s that can play..

Joyner can prove what you believe in 3 months.... So will Randolph.