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How Good Is Sammy Watkins?

Discussion in 'RAMS - NFL TALK' started by RFIP, Jan 3, 2014.

  1. iced Well-Known Member

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    Provided you have a top guard prospect...

    there isn't one at the Watkins level..(top 10)
     
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  2. Alan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but we weren't talking about this draft in particular. Let's keep it general.

    Unless you want to talk about this draft in particular, in which case none of the general statements I just made pertain and we'll have to start from zero. I'm OK with that. It's a big reason why I'm here. :woot:
     
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  3. ausmurp Well-Known Member

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    Jrry I agree with the Blackmon Watkins comparison. Been saying that since day one. Blackmon looked just as fast in college - remember how many slants he took to the house? I don't think we can afford to pass on him.

    That being said, don't take his bowl performance too seriously. Ohio State d is the worst in school history, no lie.
     
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  4. BonifayRam Well-Known Member

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    Good!
     
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  5. RFIP Well-Known Member

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    I was aa huge Blackmon guy, still love his talent and I do see similarities but Watkins IS faster and more powerful imo. Plus, weed aside, he's a better person.
     
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  6. PressureD41 Les Snead's Draft Analyst Advisor

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  7. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    Disagree. On occasion, gifted WRs do hit FA. On occasion, gifted OLs hit FA. For the most part, both go high in the draft but sometimes you can find them later.

    We cannot guarantee to fix the OL via FA and later in the draft. We can TRY but how well has that worked out for us in the past?

    They say, "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth". We have a gift horse and I believe we're looking at it in the mouth.

    In order for Watkins to be a feasible pick for me, he has to either be at the top of my board or an overwhelming need. I don't see him as either. At #6 or #7 if Matthews is gone, sure, I'm game.

    Look at the way we won games with Kellen Clemens in, I don't care who your WRs are. If you can run the ball like that, you'll be fine passing off the play-action. And I don't believe our WRs are talentless hacks. I think Tavon Austin and Stedman Bailey will both be very good WRs in this league.

    You want to know how you win in this league? You dominate in the trenches. If we truly want to help our QB, grab Jake Matthews(unless we stay at #2...then take Clowney or Bridgewater). Because you saw how atrocious our running game was without Saffold at OG against Seattle. Matthews doesn't just keep Sam upright...he allows us to run the ball effectively. And that makes a great difference for Sam who had a 111.5 QB Rating in 2013 when throwing off a play-action.
     
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  8. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    Based on what? Have you ever met Justin Blackmon? His issues are substance related just like Watkins has had in college. There's nothing wrong with Blackmon's personality. He just has a problem.

    Watkins isn't more powerful...but he is faster. For sure.
     
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  9. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    And every WR drafted in the first round was outplayed by 3rd rounder Keenan Allen. Same logic. Same outcome. Do you want to claim we shouldn't draft a WR in the 1st round based on that?

    That's an exact quote. You know what dictates coverage better than a #1 WR? A strong running game.

    You know what helps your WRs get open? Being able to run a deep drops and longer developing routes because your QB has time in the pocket. Do you remember the SF and Dallas debacles? No WR can get open when his QB is getting sacked 6 to 7 times a game. And Sam won't be able to do his job under those circumstances. I don't care how good the WRs are.

    Right now, we have nothing on the interior. Sorry but I don't trust Scott Wells to stay healthy and imo, Harvey Dahl stunk in 2013. And our best OL is trying to get back from a torn ACL and MCL.

    1. In what way is he overhyped? Seems to me that people love to use his "name" against him without actually telling us where he doesn't live up to expectations. I've watched the guy. I've evaluated him. And his name meant nothing to me while I was focused on his game. It didn't enter my mind. He's a top tier OL prospect. It's all on film.
    2. Feel free to but that's my opinion. I don't like Kouandjio and Lewan. I do like Evans and Lee.
    3. Absolutely. Have said this many times in the past. I only care about getting great players.
    4. No, it hasn't.
    5. I think Sherman is a better coach than he's given credit for.
    6. This offensive line has Joe Barksdale and Jake Long coming off major knee surgery. And Tim Barnes if we bring him back on the ERFA...that's about it. The WR corp has Tavon Austin, Stedman Bailey, Chris Givens, Jared Cook, Brian Quick and Austin Pettis. If you ask me which group I'd rather go into 2014 with...it's the WR corp...easily.

    Your plays didn't show up? So I can't. :wink:

    I don't care if Fisher takes the 3 guys I want. Wouldn't be the first time the Rams didn't. I make recommendations based on what I see. Sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm wrong.

    But I don't agree that Watkins makes the most sense. If it were a year ago? Sure. Now? No.
     
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  10. iced Well-Known Member

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    Keenan Allen was always projected as a first round talent prior to injury, warford was not. You know this

    barrett jones at center...

    I view the line like this

    LT-Long (Saffold if not healthy)
    LG - draftpick
    C - Jones
    RG - Saffold (hopeful resign or tag), UDFA/Draftpick/FA
    RT - Barksdale
     
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  11. max Well-Known Member

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    The odds of getting a quality starting WR after the first round is a lot less than getting a quality starting OG after the first round. That's just a commonly known fact.

    Keenan Allen was a first round talent with a questionable knee. No way he goes in the 3rd round if the knee checked out. The guy was running a 4.9 40 right before the draft.
     
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  12. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    Where he was projected is irrelevant. It's an excuse. He went in the 3rd round. And just like Larry Warford, he outplayed the guys that went ahead of him.

    But, ultimately, that's irrelevant. You'll almost always have guys that outplay your 1st round picks. And, typically, the most productive player as a rookie DOES NOT end up being the best player in the draft class.

    So we're hoping that Jones is ready despite him not playing this year, we can re-sign Saffold(because we're not tagging him) and that we find someone at LG. On the WR corp, we're missing a #1 WR and the rest of the slots are filled. I think you just proved my point.
     
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  13. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    And how about the odds of getting a starting LT after the first round? They're lower than the odds of getting a starting WR. This proves that we should take Jake Matthews. Thank you.
     
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  14. max Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying if we don't draft Watkins it's the end of the world. But he is the best WR in this draft. And he is also the most NFL ready. And I believe we need to draft another WR. Quick and Givens are huge question marks at best.

    But there's no doubt that we need to ensure that we can protect Sam. Fisher knows that. And it's his neck on the line if he decides to pass on an OT in the first round as has been his history.

    All this mean to me is that I'd be shocked if we took Clowney and passed on both Watkins and Matthews.
     
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  15. max Well-Known Member

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    Nope. The only thing it proves is that we shouldn't take Clowney and pass on both Watkins and Mattthews, as I said above.
     
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  16. iced Well-Known Member

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    You're missing the point - Keenan Allen was a first rounder. Period. He was one of the best receiver's til he got injured; just like lots of other players fall when they an injury, especially if its a knee for a receiver.

    I showed 5 linemen and somehow that proves your point about the WR core? mm kay...

    I'd be very surprised if we go matthews, or clowney
     
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  17. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    We should take whoever the highest ranked player on our board is. That's Clowney for me. If he's gone, that's Matthews. If he's gone, that's Watkins.

    As it stands now, my board is:
    1. Bridgewater
    2. Clowney
    3. Matthews
    4. Watkins
     
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  18. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    You're missing the point. Keenan Allen was only a first rounder in fantasy land. You're making an excuse because the same argument you used with Warford against OGs is true of Allen with WRs. Allen was a 3rd round pick. That's a fact. He outproduced the guys taken ahead of him. That's a fact. It's the same thing you're arguing with Warford.

    Yes. Because the Rams OL has bigger issues than the WR corp. Which was my point.
     
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  19. max Well-Known Member

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    Here's where we disagree conceptually.

    I prefer targeting players at specific spots in the draft. I'm looking for players that will have the biggest impact on my team immediately.

    By way of example, I don't believe either Bridgewater or Clowney will have the biggest immediate impact on my team in comparison to Matthews or Watkins. So I prefer to trade down and take either Matthews or Watkins, and add an extra pick.

    But, granted you have to trust your evaluations. You don't pass on Lawrence Taylor or John Elway.
     
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  20. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    That's just not how I do it. I take the approach that the draft is for the future. I try to grab the best talent possible while keeping positional value and need in mind. I call it "value" or BVA(Best Value Available). It's a combination of all 3 but talent and positional value weigh more heavily for me than need.

    But no one approach is the only right approach. Just different strokes for different folks.

    My assumption is that the rookie likely won't contribute a ton to my team immediately...because most players just don't put up a ton of production as rookies. So the immediate isn't what I'm concerned as much about. Free agency is about plugging holes that need to be plugged. The draft, for me, is about collecting as much talent as possible.

    And again, that's just my explanation on how I do it. Totally understand if you don't feel the same way.
     
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