Honest Question,

[Fatbot]

What you are seeing is not what Fisher wants....I don't think. His successful Titan teams ran well and had big play capabilities.

The offensive philosophy? I'm pretty sure Fisher wouldn't care how many plays it took or how much time was taken off the clock, if the offense could put up 27-30 points with regularity.

I agree with these posts except I think you are giving Fisher way too much credit in terms of what offensive production he wants. I see no evidence he ever had a team in 22 seasons that scored anywhere close to 30 points. No team even scored 25? I think he's perfectly fine with 20 points. I think the offense we see is exactly what he wants, the only thing he's angry about is losing the turnovers. He thinks that's why the Rams lost, not because of a lack of offensive production.

I think Fisher's dream offense would be getting a turnover at the 50 and getting excited because:
1. two first downs puts the Rams in field goal range
2. one first down puts the Rams in good position to punt and trap the opponent inside the 10

His entire coaching philosophy is to win with a great defense or use field position to keep the game close enough for turnovers to decide the outcome. He is all about controlling the game, so his offense is about not making a mistake instead of winning the game.

 

[-X-]

I agree with these posts except I think you are giving Fisher way too much credit in terms of what offensive production he wants. I see no evidence he ever had a team in 22 seasons that scored anywhere close to 30 points. No team even scored 25?

In 2003, 2005, and 2006 his teams had a 25 PPG+.
Since he left Tennessee in 2010, they still haven't scored over 20PPG. They've averaged 18.8 and have 18.6 so far this year.

To demonstrate what happens when you don't have everything clicking...
Martz had seasons of under 25 PPG in 2002 (19,8), 2004 (24.5), and 2005 (22.7).

 

[Fatbot]

In 2003, 2005, and 2006 his teams had a 25 PPG+.

 

[Zaphod]

I see other teams patch their Olines together and they play better than the Rams. I really think Boudreau needs to go. Fisher did not have these problems when Munchak was on the staff. Bou evaluates and works out the players before the draft. So, if it isn't the coaching then it is on the players that the coach is helping to choose.

I was so happy that they addressed the OLine last year but now we are in the same position as before, except some of these guys aren't busts yet. GRob and Brown are not looking too good. Wichman can't run block. Every good line has at least two or three above average players. This one has zero.

I take it you saw that Green Bay game last night too? It was almost surreal by comparison, I was actually incredulous at their pass blocking, looking for holding and finding none, which is actually astonishing when you notice Robinson getting away with holds which is pretty much a status quo scenario against our own pass rush, and so I've come to expect. But the Packers were amazing, I started watching their blocking to the point of excluding everything else in an admittedly somnambulant mixture of haze and awe. And I'm with you, right there I was thinking about the return on investment into this offensive line, old and new, and a lot of it has to be on coaching. Of course, during the game an announcer stated that they have the number one pass blocking offensive line. Well, okay, but when you think about what the Rams have invested in their line, even being in the middle of the pack would be unacceptable.

So players to coaches, execution has to be at least part of the problem. But as has been already stated in this thread, and it's true in pretty much any sport, it's really hard to execute when your opponent knows what you're going to do. At least Shottenheimer would lessen that by running contrary plays out of formations, but when you do anything too much it gets predictable. To me, that's the much bigger problem, and I think it puts a lot of the burden on our offensive line. In summation, I have to wonder what would happen if you put our play calling on Green Bay's offensive line.

 

[bluecollarram]

After a couple pages of posts, what I gather is you guys are seeing the same things I'm seeing.

Guess if any of us expect a different result we'll need to wait for a different coach.(no, not asking for Fisher to be fired)

This has been his gameplan for many years now. After a half bottle of Jameson last night, I just had to reach out to the board to see if anyone had answers for my frustration:banghead:
Rams games are entertainment, right?

Anyway, thanks for trying to get me back from the ledge:cheers:

Now lets get ready to Beat those Lions! (BTW, if Fisher had Megatron in his prime, do you think he would rave about him being such a force run blocking on the edge:fighting

 

[jrry32]

I see other teams patch their Olines together and they play better than the Rams. I really think Boudreau needs to go. Fisher did not have these problems when Munchak was on the staff. Bou evaluates and works out the players before the draft. So, if it isn't the coaching then it is on the players that the coach is helping to choose.

I was so happy that they addressed the OLine last year but now we are in the same position as before, except some of these guys aren't busts yet. GRob and Brown are not looking too good. Wichman can't run block. Every good line has at least two or three above average players. This one has zero.

Munchak is the best OL Coach in the game. If we could get him, I'd say fire Boudreau in a second. But I don't see Pittsburgh letting him go.

 

[Boston Ram]

I really feel like the pieces are there this year for the passing game. The concepts we're using him unleashed Britt, Austin, and Quick in a way they've never been unleashed before. They all look like legitimate threats. We just don't have a QB.

I'm not trying to dog, Keenum. He's doing the best he can. He's simply not a quality QB. I feel like if we had Big Ben or Brees or Brady or Rivers, our passing game would look quite good. I still think it can be solid this year with Goff. Fisher just needs to step up and make the change.

I completely agree, the only piece or pieces not in place are on the oline right now IMO

 

[DR RAM]

It's the remnants of the Coryell system Schottenheimer left in place. Cignetti bastardized it a little, and now Boras & Groh are bastardizing it even more. It has no name and it has no real identity, but @jrry32 is right. There are pieces of a vertical offense in place, and they're working it back towards a more traditional Coryell, but there are still some bastards in there like read-option and wildcat for whatever reason. Wish we would have kept McDaniels' system in place instead and worked towards perfecting that.

Somebody finally explained it to me, because I couldn't figure it out. If that is what is going on, this guy should be our new OC:
https://goo.gl/images/BTI8zx

 

[PARAM]

Fisher has never had an offense that scored more than 42 TDs (1999). He's only had 4 that have scored more than 38 or more (99, 02, 03 and 04). His highest offensive output (TD & FG = PPG) was 22.3 in 1999. He's only had 4 years when his offense averaged 21 points or more (99, 02, 03 and 08 ). That's the bad news. In 20 full seasons, his defense/special teams have averaged 4.5 TDs per year. They scored less than 4 TD just 6 times and have scored more than 4 seven times (3 out of 4 with the Rams). That's an additional 1.9 points per game, every game, every year. So his defense is more consistent than we could hope his offense to be. But that's just defensive scores. That is not including a TD or FG scored by the offense by virtue of the defense setting them up in a good scoring position. So, practically any offense in the NFL with a Fisher designed defense is going to score about 2 more PPG. Doesn't sound like a lot but when 25% of games are decided by 3 points or less each year, it's considerable.

Having said that here's some more bad news. His offensive theory (if there is such a thing with Fisher) is obviously run, run and run some more. Only once in 20 years as a head coach has his offense had 30 TD passes (2003). They went 12-4. He's had 3 teams go 13-3 (99, 00 and 08) and the TD pass total was 23, 18 and 13 respectively. Twice he's achieved a 13 win season with less than 20 TD passes. I wouldn't expect to win 13 games if someone told me 'your team isn't going to have 19 TD passes this year. It's true you can't count on non offensive scores year in and year out but Fisher's defenses and special teams seem to always contribute to the scoring. Not once in 20 years of coaching has he been blanked in non-offensive scores and only three times has he had less than 3. But we're talking about offense here.

Many believe he lost his job in Tennessee because of Vince Young. And that may be true. He made the playoffs with VY in 2007 (10-6) but that team finished 3rd in the division. The next year with Kerry Collins under center for all but 1 game, they won the division (13-3). Some thought Carson Wentz was the prototype Fisher QB, in the mold of Steve McNair. And I've read some random opinions that suggested Fisher wanted Wentz. Who knows if that's true? I believe that Goff may end up being the most talented QB as a pure passer that Fisher will ever have, including McNair. But will he turn him loose? The saying is 'a leopard can't change his spots' but I believe if Goff becomes that guy, Fisher will take full advantage of that talent. And if he does, we may be in for a treat with both Gurley AND Goff....a reprieve for Ram fans from the mid 70's and 80's when we always had a horse of a RB but only had a good QB for a couple of seasons with Ferragamo. And for 3 of his seasons, that horse was Wendell Tyler.

EDIT:
A little more research on Fisher and QBs, he has been a head coach for 20 full seasons and in just 4 of them has he had the same guy start all 16 games (97, 98, 02 and 12). His lifetime regular season winning percentage is .519.9. In seasons where he's had a 16 game starter his winning percentage is .546. In seasons where he hasn't had a 16 game starter his percentage is .513. Well here's hoping he doesn't have a 16 game starter this season, .