Gregg Williams' name comes up again in Bounty scandal lawsuit

[nighttrain]

I've never had the privilege of sitting in on an weekly NFL gameplan meeting, but isn't it pretty common knowledge that coaches use scouting to research existing lingering type injuries of their opponents?
And use those reports in the gameplan?
I'm not talking about trying to end careers, but if an opposing player is playing with a bruised rib...i'm telling my guys to hit him high. If an opposing player is recovering from a ankle sprain...i'm telling my guys to hit him low.

I just assume this type of thing goes on every week.

That just how football is played,if a player is recovering from an injury, no free passes.
train

 

[ram007]

Gregg Williams tried to end players careers but was banished from league for a year that's it? I guess Gregg Williams knows people who knows people and they handled it well for him. He lost a ~$1m dollars and comes back and gets to coach top 5 defensive talent in NFL. Yeah some punishment it is. Lets ask the players who were injured by his plans about how they feel for this "punishment" of Gregg Williams.

 

[blackbart]

But it actually isn't because of all the former players who have said most of it was stuff they had heard before EXCEPT the advocating injuries which almost to a man they said was over the line. That would lead one to believe that it actually isn't taught and I doubt if you had high school coaches telling you to blow out a guys knee. Or hit a guy in the head, even in the pile after the play.

What I have found in the multiple discussions I have had on multiple message boards is that most (not all but most) of the posters that say "that crap goes on all the time in every locker room" haven't listened to the recording. The rah rah hit 'em hard stuff isn't the problem and I think people assume that's essentially what Williams was saying when it was WAY more than that.

I don't buy the what the players said stuff because they just are not going to come out and tell it like it is now a days. There are plenty of old school guys that came out when all this came up saying it was common. Discussion boards don't get any credibility with me because there are few if any that have guys posting who played or that even use their own names. Is it right to advocate for intentionally injuring a guy? No of course not. But thinking it doesn't happen to some degree, again I'm not buying it. Those guys still hit each other just as hard as they can within the rules every play if a guy gets knocked out all the better for the other team. Its a brutal sport that is why Americans dig it.

 

[Ram Quixote]

But it actually isn't because of all the former players who have said most of it was stuff they had heard before EXCEPT the advocating injuries which almost to a man they said was over the line. That would lead one to believe that it actually isn't taught and I doubt if you had high school coaches telling you to blow out a guys knee. Or hit a guy in the head, even in the pile after the play.

What I have found in the multiple discussions I have had on multiple message boards is that most (not all but most) of the posters that say "that crap goes on all the time in every locker room" haven't listened to the recording. The rah rah hit 'em hard stuff isn't the problem and I think people assume that's essentially what Williams was saying when it was WAY more than that.

And yet ... the Saints in 2009 were one of the least penalized regarding PF.

 

[snackdaddy]

I believe what is in a defensive player's and coach's mindset is, hit em hard. Make em regret coming your way. Intimidate em. And if that knocks a player out of the game, even better. If it results in an injury that causes him to lose more than a game, oh well. But I also believe they try and do it in the context of what is allowed. Some guys push that envelope.

 

[LesBaker]

I don't buy the what the players said stuff because they just are not going to come out and tell it like it is now a days. There are plenty of old school guys that came out when all this came up saying it was common. Discussion boards don't get any credibility with me because there are few if any that have guys posting who played or that even use their own names. Is it right to advocate for intentionally injuring a guy? No of course not. But thinking it doesn't happen to some degree, again I'm not buying it. Those guys still hit each other just as hard as they can within the rules every play if a guy gets knocked out all the better for the other team. Its a brutal sport that is why Americans dig it.

The old school guys were among those that said "that's out of bounds, he went over the line".

Nobody supported what he said on that tape. Have you heard it?

 

[LesBaker]

And yet ... the Saints in 2009 were one of the least penalized regarding PF.

And the 1999 Rams were one of the most penalized teams. That isn't germane.

 

[Ram Quixote]

And the 1999 Rams were one of the most penalized teams. That isn't germane.

That isn't what I said. I was referring to their Personal Foul penalties. If there's a disconnect between what the Bounty system was about, and what really happened, it shows in those numbers.

 

[LesBaker]

That isn't what I said. I was referring to their Personal Foul penalties. If there's a disconnect between what the Bounty system was about, and what really happened, it shows in those numbers.

Not really, but it doesn't matter if you want to just ignore what GW said.

Have you listened to the audio? Nothing about the personal foul penalties called means anthing.

What he SAID is what matters.

Go listen.......you'll see.

 

[LesBaker]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2012/gregg-williams-penalty-record

(me, this shows what the NFL said, he had been using a system and ramped it up in NO even after being told to stop)

Is the Gregg Williams bounty scandal reflected in the stats? The answer is "maybe a little, but probably not."

We went back and looked at the number of violent penalties earned by each of Gregg Williams' defenses since he was the head coach in Buffalo. When we say "violent penalties," we're talking about Unnecessary Roughness, Unsportsmanlike Conduct, and Roughing the Passer. We only looked at penalties on defense, taking out penalties on offense or special teams, because we specifically wanted to look to see if there was a Williams effect. Our numbers are regular season only.

Over the last two seasons, the Saints certainly have been flagged for roughness more than most other teams. In 2010-2011, they earned 15 Unnecessary Roughness penalties on defense, plus eight Roughing the Passer penalties. (There were no Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalties, but those are pretty rare overall.) The average team in this two-year span earned 7.7 Unnecessary Roughness penalties and 6.0 Roughing the Passer penalties. The Saints were in the top five for Unnecessary Roughness both seasons.

However, they weren't the only team with a lot of roughness penalties. If we include special teams, the Denver Broncos actually led (or tied for the lead) in Unnecessary Roughness in both seasons, with 13 in 2010 and 11 in 2011, even though they had completely different coaching staffs each year. If we look at defense only, the Broncos still had 15 Unnecessary Roughness penalties in the two-year span, same as New Orleans.

When we first ran the numbers for 2010 and 2011, we thought, wow, that's actually some pretty strong statistical evidence that the bounty system did lead to more dangerous on-field hits. When we ran the numbers for the other years, however, that evidence became a lot weaker. From 2001-2009, no Gregg Williams defense had more than four Unnecessary Roughness penalties in a single season, or more than five Roughing the Passer penalties. Here's a table going back to his days as head coach in Buffalo:

TeamUnnecessary
RoughnessRoughing
the Passer
2011 NO96
2010 NO62
2009 NO32
2008 JAC32
2007 WAS31
2006 WAS25
2005 WAS42
2004 WAS45
2003 BUF23
2002 BUF24
2001 BUF14
Of course, this isn't evidence that Williams didn't have a bounty system in place in New Orleans. But if Williams has installed a bounty system on his defenses for years, as reports seem to indicate, it doesn't seem to have led to quite as many rough and illegal hits on the field as you might expect. Or, at least, not as many rough hits that were flagged as illegal.

 

[DaveFan'51]

Anyone out their who doesn't care for Williams' way needs to Listen to a few videos of Deacon Jones, on this subject of getting after players(QB's etc.) and then, well .. Just ..!!
(Different Era? Yes! - Different Rules? OK! - SAME GAME!!)

 

[Ram Quixote]

Not really, but it doesn't matter if you want to just ignore what GW said.

Have you listened to the audio? Nothing about the personal foul penalties called means anthing.

What he SAID is what matters.

Go listen.......you'll see.

What he SAID is pure hyperbole, intended to get the defense up. But what happened in the game is the reality. Coaches say stuff; it's their job. The players, on the other hand, know what the boundaries are. There was less intent to harm anyone in that game, and the final score proved that.

You can go on about what GW said, but the players knew what Williams was about.

 

[blackbart]

The old school guys were among those that said "that's out of bounds, he went over the line".

Nobody supported what he said on that tape. Have you heard it?

Yes and I think you can interpret a lot of it however you like I still don't think it was extreme or over the line. Like I said we did it in high school 40 years ago.

And saying no one supported him is not true either. There were players past and present who were on both sides.

 

[LesBaker]

What he SAID is pure hyperbole, intended to get the defense up. But what happened in the game is the reality. Coaches say stuff; it's their job. The players, on the other hand, know what the boundaries are. There was less intent to harm anyone in that game, and the final score proved that.

You can go on about what GW said, but the players knew what Williams was about.

Clearly you didn't hear the audio. Coaches don't say "that stuff", it wasn't hyperbole, cash was paid for injuries. If it matters what happened in the game do the penalties matter?

@blackbart there is no interpretation he asked his players to blow out ACL's and said he'd pay them to do it. That's not open to interpretation LOL.

 

[blackbart]

Clearly you didn't hear the audio. Coaches don't say "that stuff", it wasn't hyperbole, cash was paid for injuries. If it matters what happened in the game do the penalties matter?

@blackbart there is no interpretation he asked his players to blow out ACL's and said he'd pay them to do it. That's not open to interpretation LOL.

OK so now that he has served his time based on the judgement that was passed down on him and he is now coaching for the Rams you still have a hard on for him? He's one of us now. It's time to move on and embrace him as one of our own.