Former NFL player estimates he sustained 2,500 concussions

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bubbaramfan

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Hard for me to show sympathy. They all know the risks and they play anyway, weather its for the love of the game, the money, whatever. They get a concussion and they go back in and play some more.

How many times do you have to have your bell rung before you get it?
 

Mackeyser

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If you’ve never experienced that single-minded focus where literally everything else including your health and safety are pushed aside, there’s no way to explain it.

I’m not saying that they all didn’t realize they would pay any price.

But if we turn this focus from a virtue into a sin, we can forget anything excellent in sports as well as a bunch of other fields.
 

wolfdogg

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I seriously doubt you could play every practice and game with multiple concussions. The first one would make you woozy and out of it and any after that would be way too noticeable for a player to hide. You'd be talking like Dorothy when she wakes up at the end of the movie. You wouldnt understand your assignments or anything. And how long could that actually continue? Oh there's so and so only 3 minutes into the game and he's calling me gramma and sayin I have pretty shoes. If you had 2500 concussions you probably wouldn't know how to spell 2500.
 

NateDawg122

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I seriously doubt you could play every practice and game with multiple concussions. The first one would make you woozy and out of it and any after that would be way too noticeable for a player to hide. You'd be talking like Dorothy when she wakes up at the end of the movie. You wouldnt understand your assignments or anything. And how long could that actually continue? Oh there's so and so only 3 minutes into the game and he's calling me gramma and sayin I have pretty shoes. If you had 2500 concussions you probably wouldn't know how to spell 2500.

If you had 2500 concussions you would be dead, plain and simple. I had a concussion that sent me to the ER because I was in agony and could not stop vomiting. Multiple concussions in a row can easily put you in a coma.
 

fanotodd

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Firstly, it’s not silly.

Secondly, sorry @fanotodd, but I approach this using the actual science as well as someone with a brain injury suffered in the Navy.

The whole point of understanding CTE is that the science is increasingly pointing to the data which strongly suggests that it’s not only the fully concussive impacts which cause capillary damage in the inner brain, but also subconcussive impacts.

What we can’t quantify without data like the actual shape and size of a person’s brain as well as the inner topography of the skull is who and to what extent those subconcussive impacts will cause damage.

Some will experience little or even no damage. Others will experience significant trauma relative to the perhaps minor extent of the impact.

Lastly, as forensic pathologists are studying the brains of other former athletes from soccer players to boxers and others, we are getting a better understanding of what leads to CTE and well as where further study is required and what steps can be taken to mitigate the damage (it may be a function of mapping the brain and inner skull of potential athletes and “clearing” them to play or not, based on a number of factors known to influence or exacerbate neural trauma)

Actually, I don't have a difference of opinion. I'm not qualified to argue against science and real data on this matter. I was just curious how my name popped up.

Re Plummer's statements, if "seeing stars" constitutes a low level type of concussion, then those of us who have played any kind of football in gear has had them.
LOTS of them.
 

Pancake

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I am all for science but it doesn't sound like any was used to determine he had 2500 concussions. Maybe he was concussed when he came to that number?
 

Mackeyser

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Actually, I don't have a difference of opinion. I'm not qualified to argue against science and real data on this matter. I was just curious how my name popped up.

Re Plummer's statements, if "seeing stars" constitutes a low level type of concussion, then those of us who have played any kind of football in gear has had them.
LOTS of them.

I only included you because you gave me a “chill” and I wanted to respond to your contention. If the chill wasn’t intended, then my apologies.

Also, that’s the thing with Plummer’s statements. Even if they aren’t fully concussions, there may actually be LOTS of incidents of injury... far more than we first thought (initially, it was thought that only severe concussions caused damage).

As we learn more, we’ll better understand.

Also, with life expectancy increasing, we see more the devastating effects of degenerative disease. Used to be that most men died with colon cancer, not of it. That’s in many cases because it’s such a slow growing cancer that something else like COPD, heart failure or liver disease would cause that person’s death. Now, as we get better at treating some of the more common killers, the degenerative diseases are showing up.

Now, we’re seeing the degenerative diseases as bigger issues than what we’re the prime killers as we have a better handle on prevention of things like hypertension and cirrhosis.
 

fanotodd

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Mackeyser:

Yeah, I think I hit the wrong button. Sorry about that.

I think the difficult aspect of this is when is a hit to the head hard enough to create "memory " and thus making it cumulative over time? Certainly a sport like football has plenty of opportunities for hits like that, regardless of where that baseline actually is, but what about the rest of us?

You speak of degenerative issuers now becoming more of a "last nail" as opposed to the usual killers. Those of us who played sports growing up but didn't go anywhere, those of us who have enjoyed activities where a jarring head blow can occur, would also be at risk over the long haul. At what point do we say it's not just football, or hockey, etc., but an athletic lifestyle?

I don't make these comments to challenge you, so much as to raise the question. That is to say, we need a baseline for when a relatively normal live starts becoming risky in the CTE department. We already know that collision sports can do enough damage.
 

wolfdogg

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Football and hockey should only be played while wearing those super fat summo suits that people wrestle in bars with. It would safe AND hilarious.
 

Mackeyser

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Mackeyser:

Yeah, I think I hit the wrong button. Sorry about that.

I think the difficult aspect of this is when is a hit to the head hard enough to create "memory " and thus making it cumulative over time? Certainly a sport like football has plenty of opportunities for hits like that, regardless of where that baseline actually is, but what about the rest of us?

You speak of degenerative issuers now becoming more of a "last nail" as opposed to the usual killers. Those of us who played sports growing up but didn't go anywhere, those of us who have enjoyed activities where a jarring head blow can occur, would also be at risk over the long haul. At what point do we say it's not just football, or hockey, etc., but an athletic lifestyle?

I don't make these comments to challenge you, so much as to raise the question. That is to say, we need a baseline for when a relatively normal live starts becoming risky in the CTE department. We already know that collision sports can do enough damage.

That’s cool.

Also, what we’re learning is that the individual’s cranial physiology and genetic make up are MAJOR factors in determining which hits are hard, but do little or no damage and which hits cause damage bit it major or small, but cumulative.

The “baseline” may not be about collective risk, but about an individual’s measurable risk, i.e. a baseline would be established based on a topographical scan of the inside of the cranium as well as a mapping of the shape, size and vascular structures of the brain.

Essentially, a player would pass/fail based on susceptibility to neural trauma as presented by measurable factors.

We’re a long way from that, but I could see that being a thing at the Combine and then becoming a standard for HS players to be insurable.
 

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #33
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...k-Gastineau-says-football-destroyed-life.html

Former NFL star Mark Gastineau, 61, breaks down in tears on radio and says football destroyed his life as he now battles Alzheimer's and Parkinson's linked to hard tackles
By MIA DE GRAAF HEALTH EDITOR FOR DAILYMAIL.COM

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Former New York Jets defensive line backer Mark Gastineau sobbed live on radio as he described losing control of his mind and body to Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease.

The 61-year-old, who spent a decade in the NFL, said he is certain football destroyed his life as he now battles neurodegenerative diseases with clear links to repetitive head trauma.

Weeping, he described sleepless nights, struggling to get out of bed, forgetting names, and being forced to stop even the simplest of tasks like working on the yard.

His wife is now his carer, he wept.

Despite being part of the class-action lawsuit that forced the NFL to pay more than $1 billion to former players with brain diseases, Gastineau said his claim was rejected and he got nothing.

But he insisted he doesn't care about the money, all he wants is for NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell - who was an intern when they met more than 30 years ago - to treat him with respect and acknowledge that football led to his degradation.

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'It's not right and I haven't been that way all my life,' Gastineau told Pete McCarthy on WOR Sports Zone on Thursday.

'I wasn't the smartest little cookie in school. But you know what... I wasn't that way.

'My wife, ok, she... and I ... used to go around and do yard work... but you know what? She does everything now for me,' he choked, breaking down in tears.

'I'll tell you Pete it's not good, it's not good,' he said.

'When I'm laying in bed until 3, 4 or 5... it's not good. My wife will tell you. She... she helps me get out of bed. And she'll help me remember names.'

Gastineau, the Jets' record-holder for the most sacks, enjoyed a glamorous life typical of an athlete in his youth.

His ex-wife Lisa Gastineau and daughter Brittny Gastineau, who is a childhood friend of Kim Kardashian, are famous for starring in the E! reality series The Gastineau Girls.

He also has a son with actress Brigitte Nielsen.

But speaking to Pete McCarthy on Thursday, he said he now struggles to look back fondly on his football years as his brain deteriorates.

'You know what Pete, I used to think I was all that. But you know what Pete? I was nothing... because of what's happened to me,' he said.

Gastineau is currently working along with USA Football as part of the 'Heads UP Football' campaign to improve player safety, ensuring that equipment is used properly and concussion is quickly identified.

Despite his three diagnoses, he is among the thousands of former players who believes that the real issue has yet to be identified: CTE.

CTE (chronic traumatic encephalopathy) is a degenerative brain disease that is caused by repeated hits to the head, but it can only be diagnosed in a posthumous autopsy. Over time, these hard impacts result in confusion, depression, dementia, aggression and even suicidal tendencies.

Scores of late players have been diagnosed with CTE posthumously - many after committing suicide - including Aaron Hernandez, Junior Seau, and Dave Duerson. More than 1,800 former NFL players, boxers, and military veterans have pledged to donate their brains to the Concussion Legacy Foundation for CTE research.

But Gastineau - along with thousands of other players - says the NFL is doing the bare minimum for players, and slammed the commissioner for making it about the payouts.

'I'll tell you this much: the NFL's wrong, they're wrong,' Gastineau wept to McCarthy.

'I'm not telling them to give me zillions of dollars, I just want to be treated with respect,' he said.

'I want the NFL to treat people right. They've got to, they have to. Hey! Roger Goodell! Treat people right!'

His words on Thursday came after a significant year for research into football-related brain diseases.

Boston University has made huge headway in investigating chronic traumatic encephalopathy (or, CTE), the Alzheimer's-like disease which has been linked to repeated blows to the head from contact sports.

This year, the team has published a slew of research papers showing links between football and brain injury.

While there is still no way to diagnose the disease during life, the evidence bridging the gap between head hits and neurodegenerative diseases is strengthening at an unprecedented rate.

'I don't know of any other area of scientific investigation that has had such a large and pure impact on awareness in lay culture and attention within the scientific community,' Dr Robert Stern, head of Boston's CTE research unit, told Daily Mail Online this week.

'This has been a landmark year for media coverage and cultural awareness of CTE and long-term consequences of playing football.

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'We still have a tremendous amount of work ahead of us to be able to answer some very important questions about CTE, but we should have a test to diagnose in life within the next five to 10 years - and that's being conservative.'

One of Boston University's papers published in 2017 found those who start playing football from before the age of 12 - as most professional players do - have a much higher risk of mood, behavioral and neurological problems in later life compared to those who start later. They attributed this to the damage of repeated hits to the head at such a critical time of brain development.

Another showed 110 of the 111 former players brains they had in their lab, donated from families after death, had signs of CTE, showing that it's not a trivial number of people that get the crippling disease.

Perhaps most importantly, last month Boston published a groundbreaking study to demolish the obsession with concussions.

Concussions, they found, are the red herring: it is not a 'big hit' in football that causes CTE or makes it more likely. Rather, it is the experience of repeated subconcussive hits over time that increases the likelihood of brain disease. In a nutshell: any tackle in an NFL game - or even practice - increases the risk of a player transforming into the 'ghost' of a human, according to Dr Stern.
 

Mackeyser

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Concussions, they found, are the red herring: it is not a 'big hit' in football that causes CTE or makes it more likely. Rather, it is the experience of repeated subconcussive hits over time that increases the likelihood of brain disease. In a nutshell: any tackle in an NFL game - or even practice - increases the risk of a player transforming into the 'ghost' of a human, according to Dr Stern.

What I've been saying all along.

110 out of 111 is statistically significant.

It's not so much the "Jacked Up" type hits, although they're contributors.

It's the sub-concussive impacts that seem to cause the damage to capillaries and without CBD compounds to help heal the brain, that seems to be where most of the bricks in the CTE wall come from.
 

nighttrain

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i'm hoping that someway somehow, it's possible to develop a helmet that helps prevent what has happened in previous years
just hope
train
 

Prime Time

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/04/03/former-giants-lb-corey-widmer-disavows-football/

Former Giants LB Corey Widmer disavows football
Posted by Darin Gantt on April 3, 2018

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Getty Images

Corey Widmer may be the exception, but he’s willing to be the vocal exception.

The former Giants middle linebacker, who played eight years in the NFL, recently turned down an invitation to be enshrined in the Montana Football Hall of Fame because he’s so disturbed by what the game he once played did to him and countless others. So for him, all the pain present and future isn’t worth the money and the glory in his past.

“I think if I’d be putting that jacket on right now I’d probably puke,” Widmer said, via Jon Maletz of the Bozeman Chronicle. “I don’t think I’d be able to shake a hand. And that’s why I’m doing it this way; I don’t want to make some political statement right in the middle of their party and take advantage of some very nice people.

“I can’t sit up there and tell interesting stories and how cool it is — the camaraderie, the fame, things like that — and have somebody else say, ‘Well, if that local kid can do it, so can I.’ It just doesn’t work that easy. . . . I’d never want to give somebody the impression that football is safe and that the injuries are short term. They’re not. I’m proof of that.”

His playing career was ended by a back problem, but he’s dealing with much more than that now. Widmer said he’s suffering from a number of problems which he believes are related to concussions, and doesn’t want that to happen to others. He knows trying to derail the most powerful sports industry in the United States won’t be effective, but he does with he could share his message to convince parents to delay participation in full contact tackle football until the senior year of high school.

Widmer described physical and emotional symptoms consistent with other former players dealing with brain injuries, and he’s fearful for what is to come.

“I’m 49 years old, depressed to the Nth degree but have a lot of money . . . and some people might say it’s still worth it. I just tell them to watch what they wish for,” Widmer said. “If someone could’ve explained all of this to me when I was 14, I would’ve given it all back in a heartbeat. I would’ve wished for something else.

“The 6-foot-2, 260-pound canary in the coal mine has died. Maybe having been in the coal mine is the only way to really get the point across.”

While many former players are willing to acknowledge the benefits of the sport — including financial — Widmer no longer feels comfortable with the trade-off. And he’s willing to walk away from any recognition of his playing career to underscore his point.
 

MadGoat

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I'd be curious to compare the brain health of ex-NFLers that did not excessively drink alcohol or do any drugs. There is a well established link between excessive drug and alcohol use and general dementia symptoms.

I'm not saying there aren't any long term concussion risks, but to somehow attribute all of this to football while knowing many of these people have a second, well-established reason for the symptoms they are describing, seems wrong.