Foles Joins a better Supporting Cast

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dbrooks25

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What's fact or fiction here? The Rams haven't had a receiver break 800 yards (as if 800 should be some acceptable bench mark) since 2008 and have gone threw a slew of them, a lot of which are no longer in the league.





Well I'm not most certainly getting that vibe from someone when I read something along the lines of "Stats don't matter at all and my opinion is my opinion - so thats that." That sounds like you're firmly rooted in your beliefs and there isn't even the thought of entertaining a different possibility - so nothings up for discussion.


No - it's really not, and you replied nothing to my previous post that would indicate otherwise either.



Since when did you turn into a strawman? I expected more from you





To each his own - I'm sure I could easily find snippets from opposing coordinators but i'm sure they would just be debunked with "well what else is he supposed to say"




Which they need to do anyway

But this is the argument you are having, imo. It seems you are basing a lot of this on stats alone, so he threw out the Bruce/Holt thing. I'm not here to argue who was better, but I will argue that you can not throw out stats and make a determination on that alone.
 

dbrooks25

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Maybe I'd be amenable to change if something more than stats was brought to the table. Sorry but you're not going to convince me my opinion from film is wrong based on stats. I'm certainly willing to hear a person out and consider their point of view if they bring analysis based on film to the table. In the end, I might still stick to my guns but I'll certainly respect the point you're making.

But stats? No. It does nothing for me. Any person with access to the internet can pull stats off. It just doesn't make the viewpoint your arguing credible to me.



Not a strawman, bud. You're contending that those two having more TDs make them better than our WRs. That point directly addresses your argument. If we are to believe that having more receiving TDs makes Matthews and Maclin better than our guys then it would have to apply to Bruce and Holt in 2000 as well.



Just as I'm sure if I found snippets on our guys, you'd respond with the same.



NEED to do? Nah. But I'm certainly in favor of it if it's Cooper or White.
Completely agree with the point you're making.
 

Ram Quixote

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What's fact or fiction here? The Rams haven't had a receiver break 800 yards (as if 800 should be some acceptable bench mark) since 2008 and have gone threw a slew of them, a lot of which are no longer in the league.
And last year you beat the drum on no Ram receiver getting past 700 yards. But now that Britt did, that's not good enough?

Certainly, we'd all like to have a 1000-yard receiver, but we were using back-up QBs all last year.
 

iced

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Maybe I'd be amenable to change if something more than stats was brought to the table. Sorry but you're not going to convince me my opinion from film is wrong based on stats. I'm certainly willing to hear a person out and consider their point of view if they bring analysis based on film to the table. In the end, I might still stick to my guns but I'll certainly respect the point you're making.

But stats? No. It does nothing for me. Any person with access to the internet can pull stats off. It just doesn't make the viewpoint your arguing credible to me.

If you want a break down,fine.

Maclin is great at setting up his defenders and is very fluid as a route runner - additionally,he is excellent at catching the deep ball and has great hands. And boy can he do something a lot of Ram receivers can't - gain separation, consistently.

He 85 catches with 2 drops. Britt? 48/2.

Matthews is still learning the game but you can only see his impact (and I don't think I need to break him down to you, you wanted him last year in the 2nd round - obviously we see why). Don't know what the hell happened to Cooper, but he certainy wasn't the same receiver in 2014. Was it due to Jackson leaving? Most likely - easier to get open against a teams #3 cb when you got Maclin and Jax outwide.

But thats the thing about those two receivers - they got open, and open big time.

Brian Quick was doing that the first couple games - but again, the shoulder is something that we've already talked about

And that's the big difference I see in vs our receivers - hands and separation. I'm glad Quick has gotten better at using his body and frame to shield defenders (probably Britt's influence), but Britt still does not get open consistently. All too often I've seen a defenders in his hips.

But most importantly - they're not doing it against the divisional rivals. Our guys cannot beat man coverage, nor can the line block enough.

Getting to the line, Kelce is one of the better/top centers in the league. Mathis is one of the top left guards - yea he missed some time, but he's still on their roster, and he's been healthy for the majority of his career (Also a big reason why the Eagles offense was so dominant in 2013.)

Their interior is night and day better than ours - and I would wager that Barksdale's and Saffold's play suffered as a result of Joseph and Wells.

Not a strawman, bud. You're contending that those two having more TDs make them better than our WRs. That point directly addresses your argument. If we are to believe that having more receiving TDs makes Matthews and Maclin better than our guys then it would have to apply to Bruce and Holt in 2000 as well.

Well how would our receiver's being way, way less productive than the eagles corps make them on the same level?

I was just illustrating that just two of them were equal to what 8-10 of our players did combined... you don't get numbers THAT gaping just because of system and QB. Sure it might help, but is that sole reason? nope . That's talent.


Just as I'm sure if I found snippets on our guys, you'd respond with the same.

Not really - there are times when coaches are little more transparent in their speeches. Still love Kevin Gilbride calling out Justin Smith's holding the guard technique as the reason for Aldon Smith's success.

NEED to do? Nah. But I'm certainly in favor of it if it's Cooper or White.

If you play to beat the teams in the division, then yea we do. I don't see anyone on this roster that has given opposing secondaries in this division fits - and that makes it easier to become a one dimensional offense. No one right now can line up against PP, Sherman, etc. and give them fits.

And last year you beat the drum on no Ram receiver getting past 700 yards. But now that Britt did, that's not good enough?

Certainly, we'd all like to have a 1000-yard receiver, but we were using back-up QBs all last year.

Lol and as I said last year 700,800 - all still sad and shouldn't be a bench mark. That's the point.

But if you'd like to know how that ranks against the rest of league here ya go -

Britt - 46th among WR's, 57th in receiving among all

Other players ahead of him in worse QB situations?

Erick Decker , Vincent Jackson, Sammy Watkins, Andrew Hawkins

But again - for me it gets back to the division. I think the Rams need that go to player that can consistently get open, gain separation, catch the ball, and give opposing corners fits in our division. We have a ton of complimentary receivers but lack that #1 stud
 

drasconis

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Nope. But Philly was a top 5 O in volume only. They were actually a middle of the pack offense in terms of efficiency. But what their hurry up does is allow them to run so many plays that their volume stats get inflated on offense and deflated on defense.

For someone who earlier said they did not care about the stats you are taking that pretty deep....the name of the game is scoring more than the other team (the Rams do that by preventing the other team from scoring). At the end of the day it doesn't matter if you score your points over 4 quarters or 1. The score at the end of the game is what matters. The fact is they where among the top O's in points and yards...whatever means they used. The fact is they scored a lot more than the Rams over 60 minutes on average. So saying they are less "efficient" is just silly.
 

jrry32

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If you play to beat the teams in the division, then yea we do. I don't see anyone on this roster that has given opposing secondaries in this division fits - and that makes it easier to become a one dimensional offense. No one right now can line up against PP, Sherman, etc. and give them fits.

Yes, I'd much rather read a breakdown like that.

We can beat the teams in our division with or without great WRs. The teams in our division struggled like hell with beating the Rams last year despite our bad QB play. That should speak volumes.

Frankly, we saw Chris Givens burn Sherman a couple years ago. I'm really not that worried about the CBs in this division. The OL and the QB are the difference-maker for us. Especially against a team like Seattle.
 

jrry32

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For someone who earlier said they did not care about the stats you are taking that pretty deep....the name of the game is scoring more than the other team (the Rams do that by preventing the other team from scoring). At the end of the day it doesn't matter if you score your points over 4 quarters or 1. The score at the end of the game is what matters. The fact is they where among the top O's in points and yards...whatever means they used. The fact is they scored a lot more than the Rams over 60 minutes on average. So saying they are less "efficient" is just silly.

You're right, the name of the game is scoring more than the other team. Problem is that you're ignoring half of the equation. While their hurry up helps them score more points, it also causes them to give up more points.

Like I said, Rams won't put up better numbers in terms of volume yardage or points next year...because the Rams aren't going to put their defense in a bad position by running the hurry up. Because that's not a smart thing to do with a team that has a strong defense.

Ultimately, I don't care if we outscore or outgain Philly because they're going to probably have 20-30 more drives than we do in 2015. What I want is for us to have a better scoring margin.

And no, I'm not taking the stats deep. I'm simply explaining to you the effects of running a hurry up offense like Philly's...it inflates offensive volume stats and deflates defensive volume stats.
 

iced

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Yes, I'd much rather read a breakdown like that.

We can beat the teams in our division with or without great WRs. The teams in our division struggled like hell with beating the Rams last year despite our bad QB play. That should speak volumes.

Eh, I've seen us really struggle to move the ball against them - and thats even with sam.. Just gonna guess but I'd say we average 14 points or less against seattle since fisher has been hc - and that we've struggled to move the ball against them through the air in most of those games.

And I focus on Arizona and Seattle because they are the teams to beat - and SF should fall off significantly
Frankly, we saw Chris Givens burn Sherman a couple years ago. I'm really not that worried about the CBs in this division. The OL and the QB are the difference-maker for us. Especially against a team like Seattle.
That was also Sherman in his rookie season - he has grown greatly since then.,, givens on the other hand has regressed and fallen on the depth chart
 

jrry32

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Eh, I've seen us really struggle to move the ball against them - and thats even with sam.. Just gonna guess but I'd say we average 14 points or less against seattle since fisher has been hc - and that we've struggled to move the ball against them through the air in most of those games.

And I focus on Arizona and Seattle because they are the teams to beat - and SF should fall off significantly

That was also Sherman in his rookie season - he has grown greatly since then.,, givens on the other hand has regressed and fallen on the depth chart

And Seattle plays a ton of Cover 3. QB and OL play are more key to beating them than WR play.
 

iced

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And Seattle plays a ton of Cover 3. QB and OL play are more key to beating them than WR play.

eh true but you still gotta be able to win those one on one opportunities.. I think our receivers are decent reading zone coverage (least quick and bailey are better ones), but I still don't think its enough.

I do agree the OL play is critical - they gotta come away from FA with atleast 1 signing i think..
 
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iced

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You're right, the name of the game is scoring more than the other team. Problem is that you're ignoring half of the equation. While their hurry up helps them score more points, it also causes them to give up more points.

Like I said, Rams won't put up better numbers in terms of volume yardage or points next year...because the Rams aren't going to put their defense in a bad position by running the hurry up. Because that's not a smart thing to do with a team that has a strong defense.

Ultimately, I don't care if we outscore or outgain Philly because they're going to probably have 20-30 more drives than we do in 2015. What I want is for us to have a better scoring margin.

And no, I'm not taking the stats deep. I'm simply explaining to you the effects of running a hurry up offense like Philly's...it inflates offensive volume stats and deflates defensive volume stats.

I'm not advocating a hurry up offense nor am I ignoring the effects it has on stats - however, its the problem of not having a guy that can give their secondary fits.

Look at Seattle - they don't have that guy either and knew they couldn't draft one - so they trade for a weapon that can give your defense fits (Jimmy Graham).

That's type of X-factor I'm talking about at receiver
 

lockdnram21

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Eh, I've seen us really struggle to move the ball against them - and thats even with sam...

Well you never seen Sam with this supporting cast and you have to add our hopefully improved line. Also We really haven't seen Bailey yet or Tavon..

Me personally don't think Either White or Cooper will be there when we pick
 

mr.stlouis

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #94
Look, I love your optimism, but to say our supporting staff is better than the Eagles over the past two seasons tells me that you've been drinking too much:
kool1.jpg

Meh, happens every year. I'll be like this all year until Sam gets hurt and destroys it. Wait....

110313-NFL-Eagles-Nick-Foles-and-Riley-Cooper-LO-CH_20131103192207542_600_400.JPG


WHOOO!! Go Rams! Nothing is gonna stop us now!! :banana:

:party:


So yeah, I feel pretty spectacular.... :cheers::popcorn:
 

iced

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Well you never seen Sam with this supporting cast and you have to add our hopefully improved line. Also We really haven't seen Bailey yet or Tavon..

Me personally don't think Either White or Cooper will be there when we pick

outside of britt, sam has had the same supporting cast... now where they are in the development is different, i'll give you that
 

dieterbrock

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Britt - 46th among WR's, 57th in receiving among all

Other players ahead of him in worse QB situations?

Erick Decker , Vincent Jackson, Sammy Watkins, Andrew Hawkins
Food for thought
Decker 115 targets
Jackson 142 targets
Watkins 128 targets
Hawkins 112 targets

Britt? 84 targets

I'd love to see what Britt's numbers would be with the additional 30-60 balls thrown his way

And what doesn't show are some of the circus catches he made coming back on weakly thrown balls. But to your point, other WR put up numbers with crappy QB too.
 

Username

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Just on the topic of 1000 yard receivers, it would be nice to have one. There's been multiple reasons why we haven't and I don't think it's THEIR talent that's the issue at times, but I'm pretty sure only 1 team made it to the playoffs last year w/o a 1000 yard receiver.

I honestly think Quick gets there last year if he doesn't get hurt, regardless of who's playing qb.
 

drasconis

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You're right, the name of the game is scoring more than the other team. Problem is that you're ignoring half of the equation. While their hurry up helps them score more points, it also causes them to give up more points.

Like I said, Rams won't put up better numbers in terms of volume yardage or points next year...because the Rams aren't going to put their defense in a bad position by running the hurry up. Because that's not a smart thing to do with a team that has a strong defense.

Ultimately, I don't care if we outscore or outgain Philly because they're going to probably have 20-30 more drives than we do in 2015. What I want is for us to have a better scoring margin.

And no, I'm not taking the stats deep. I'm simply explaining to you the effects of running a hurry up offense like Philly's...it inflates offensive volume stats and deflates defensive volume stats.


Not ignoring anything and you aren't explaining much of anything. The question was is there Offense versus our offense, not their entire team verse ours. Their offense doesn't cause them to give up more points, their defense does (thats like saying a great defense hurts your offense). Like most teams they choose a direction (O v D) and went for it. Saying their O scores to fast and it hurts their D ingores the benifits of having a strong O. The fact is that high powered O put pressure on other teams - they go for TD instead of FG to keep up, they go pass heavy instead of ballanced to keep up. Heck we all heard the same thing back during the GSOT days from a few detracters - "we score to fast".

You did get it right in that it is the choice many teams have made - be it Denver, the Pats, or the GSOT. The rams have choosen to go D like the Seattle or the 2000 ravens or 85 bears. A team rarely, if ever, has both a great O and great D and you play to your strengths - for us it is defense so we play to that strength because our O is so weak. We don't play O like them because we can't as effectively. Really if you could take our D and mix it with their O your talking SB easy - top 10 D and O! You wouldn't tone down the O at all, you want to keep pressure on the other team ...make them one sides on O so that D line can eat them alive. Like I say this is what we saw during the GSOT. The trouble with the Eagles is that D isn't good enough to force that situation (and when they do force it they have a tendency to get sloppy - probably reflects the coaches ego).