Foles Joins a better Supporting Cast

[DaveFan'51]

So you honestly seeing us bieng a top 3 Offense? We are going to make that kind of a jump? Philly was a top 5 O last year, even assuming a drop off it is likely they stay a top 10....to be "much better" than them we will need to be elite....like Broncos/Pats level. It is one thing to be posiitve and say this team will improve and this team will come into its' own....it is another to say this team is going to make a jump similar to the GSOT.

I said we will be much better than Philly is this year, and better than a lot of other teams this year and I'll stand on that!

 

[drasconis]

I said we will be much better than Philly is this year, and better than a lot of other teams this year and I'll stand on that!

Can you give any definition to "much better"?....is that 10% better...20% better. What do you consider your main O stat....scoring or yards or something else?

 

[FRO]

We get it, you like Jordan Matthews.

Thought we were having a debate on which team had the better support cast. I was making the case for him.

 

[bskrilla]

and they also had an incompetent QB - I'd take Shaun Hill over Sanchez all day

Are we not basing our arguments purely on production anymore? Because statistically Sanchez had a better 2014 than Shaun Hill, and even in Hill's BEST season he didn't break 20 TD's or 3000 yards which Sanchez has done both of.

 

[iced]

Are we not basing our arguments purely on production anymore? Because statistically Sanchez had a better 2014 than Shaun Hill.

No I'm just saying "he had an incompetent QB" doesn't apply to Rams players only

 

[bskrilla]

No I'm just saying "he had an incompetent QB" doesn't apply to Rams players only

But you specifically said you would take Shaun Hill over Mark Sanchez. You must have a reason other than raw production because Sanchez has produced WAY more over his career.
It's probably pretty similar to the reasons many of us have for liking our receiving unit as much or more than Philly's.

 

[Rmfnlt]

you mean when he had Lesean Mccoy, Desean jackson, and Jeremy Maclin as his big weapons around him? When he had his healthy all pro line, most notably the 3 Top 5/10 players at their position?

Lets not forget Riley cooper's hot season - very nice for a #3 receiver..

When you're watching 2013 Highlights, make you sure you note how Foles has to throw. He's not gonna have those weapons here; and Bradford has never anything resembling atleast one all Pro at wide out OR on the offensive line for a whole season - no point in comparing those two polar opposite situations

To this post's point (I think)...

Which supporting cast in Philadelphia are we talking about?

Can't talk about 2015, much has changed... and Foles isn't there so that's gone.

2014? Well, Foles didn't have such a great year... injuries along that Oline and the absence of Jackson might have had something to do with that?

2013? I can't realistically compare that offense's talent to anything the Rams have had since the GSOT.
There's just no comparison in my mind.

So, I look at what changed for Foles from 2013 to 2014... and I look at how his productivity dropped off significantly and I look at what the 2015 Rams will have on offense (especially comparing coaches) and my take is Foles will be challenged more than any other time in his short NFL career.

If they don't fortify that Oline, my guess is he'll really struggle. Not a knock on him... but it's hard to throw while laying on your back.

 

[iced]

But you specifically said you would take Shaun Hill over Mark Sanchez. You must have a reason other than raw production because Sanchez has produced WAY more over his career. It's probably pretty similar to the reasons many of us like our receiving unit as much or more than Philly's.

That's based off of what I've seen on tape - and I'd disagree, sanchez has under produced, especially with that Jets defense that carried him during his tenure in NY

Hills been a journeyman the majority of his career, true - but based on what i've seen the past two years, Hill is the preferred back up option imo

 

[bskrilla]

That's based off of what I've seen on tape - and I'd disagree, sanchez has under produced, especially with that Jets defense that carried him during his tenure in NY

I don't think anyone here would disagree with this, but that's kind of our whole point. You decided you would rather have Shaun Hill than Mark Sanchez because of watching tape, and your assessment of their overall skill level, and NOT based on who has put up more numbers in their careers. This is EXACTLY the point people are trying to make about liking our receivers versus Philly's.

 

[iced]

I don't think anyone here would disagree with this, but that's kind of our whole point. You decided you would rather have Shaun Hill than Mark Sanchez because of watching tape, and your assessment of their overall skill level, and NOT based on who has put up more numbers in their careers. This is EXACTLY the point people are trying to make about liking our receivers versus Philly's.

except thats my argument too - and i'm using stats to only strengthen my argument, while people are trying to dismiss it as an excuse. For me the issue is the biggest gap between the whole corps as group vs ours - it's not just the gap itself, its the size of it. To attribute all of that to the offense and the QB situation and not because of their talent isn't something I can agree with

And it shouldn't be a shocker that Sanchez has better Numbers right now - he has better talent around him..

so actually you're kind of making my point...

 

[VegasRam]

My head hurts.

 

[DaveFan'51]

Can you give any definition to "much better"?....is that 10% better...20% better. What do you consider your main O stat....scoring or yards or something else?

I think with consistent QB Play our receiving yrds. yrds per rec. and TD rec. will be up and this will help our run game. scoring all around will be up! I can see the Rams averaging 24-26 PPG easily. And with the team playing from 'ahead' more the D will rain hell on the opponants! I think we jump out to a fast start this season vs the slow start of the last few! I can't put a percentage on anything as the schedule isn't set yet!

 

[dbrooks25]

Thought we were having a debate on which team had the better support cast. I was making the case for him.

I get it, just making fun of the fact that every post of yours in this thread talks about Jordan Matthews. Your case has definitely been made.

 

[dbrooks25]

I don't think anyone here would disagree with this, but that's kind of our whole point. You decided you would rather have Shaun Hill than Mark Sanchez because of watching tape, and your assessment of their overall skill level, and NOT based on who has put up more numbers in their careers. This is EXACTLY the point people are trying to make about liking our receivers versus Philly's.

THANK YOU.

 

[FRO]

I get it, just making fun of the fact that every post of yours in this thread talks about Jordan Matthews. Your case has definitely been made.

I didn't have time to go into depth with combine figures in my other posts.

 

[jrry32]

They're unknown question marks as to who their replacements are gonna be... That being said, unless they're All Pros, then its drop it off... and last i checked, this team hasn't had made any of those on the line

Not true. Already explained multiple times why that is.

Yep - there were also plenty of "realists" when it came to Jason Smith, Donnie Avery, Devin Joseph, etc.

You're missing the point. Having a pessimistic stance doesn't make you a "realist" and it doesn't make people who think higher of our players "homers". Resorting to that sort of non-sense is what Plaza or Old Larry would do rather than try to have a real discussion.

Lol wow that claim is fictitious huh? Or maybe you're just seeing what you want to see.

2 guys on one team having more touch downs than our entire corps is the bad part - and yes, putting more points on the board would be out producing.

It's that fact that just 2 players did more than 8-10 combined...And we're some how supposed to be better than them? lol k.

Yes, it's fictitious...as I just explained.

Yep, our guys are better than theirs.

But since this is the direction you want to head in:
Maclin + Matthews in 2014 - 18 TDs combined
Holt + Bruce in 2000 - 15 TDs combined

Apparently, Maclin + Matthews > prime Holt + prime Bruce. Learn something new every day.

see what you want - but I don't think there's any coordinators at night that fear our receivers like they did Maclin

I also doubt there's coordinators fearing Maclin.

Why should I bother making any other claims to someone says "I don't care what stats you provide - I believe what I believe and thats that"

Then don't. I saw every single snap Foles played in 2014. What are stats going to tell me that I don't already know? They're meaningless to me. I've got all the information I need from the film.

I'm sure we do have better depth at WR then some teams - however, there quite a few teams that have a better much corps (and more production) because they have that stud - the AJ Green, Julio, Antonio Brown, Maclin, etc.

Except one guy isn't like the others. You have three top 5 WRs and Maclin. He doesn't belong in the same breath.

There are quite a few teams with better WR corps...but the 2014 Eagles weren't one. Maclin and Matthews were a good pairing but the rest of their WRs were bad. Those two guys aren't great enough as a pairing to elevate them.

As to Quick - yea I'm excited for his production and would like consider him something solid that we can build on. That being said, he didn't just tear his rotator cuff. According to Fisher, he did everything possible you could to a shoulder - so which begs the question - is he gonna make TC/Camp? Can he return to form from injury? Etc. Quick is the only receiver on this roster that I see as a true difference maker - however, now he gets in the injury bug..and we as we learned from Sam, you can't just assume he's going to stay healthy.

If they're that concerned with his shoulder, we'll likely see them make a move in the draft. Which only makes our WR corp stronger.

 

[jrry32]

So you honestly seeing us bieng a top 3 Offense? We are going to make that kind of a jump? Philly was a top 5 O last year, even assuming a drop off it is likely they stay a top 10....to be "much better" than them we will need to be elite....like Broncos/Pats level. It is one thing to be posiitve and say this team will improve and this team will come into its' own....it is another to say this team is going to make a jump similar to the GSOT.

Nope. But Philly was a top 5 O in volume only. They were actually a middle of the pack offense in terms of efficiency. But what their hurry up does is allow them to run so many plays that their volume stats get inflated on offense and deflated on defense.

 

[brokeu91]

Surprising? I do believe it. Let's compare.

- Protection should be better than what had last year. Especially with our run first style of offense.

WR's- Rams have a better unit than PHI last year. The numbers don't reflect it because of the ultra conservative approach to protect our franchise back up QB's. Maclin and Cooper were PHI's best WR's last year. It was not a deep group. Plus I think Foles will benefit from have our two towers on the edges in Britt and Quick. He throws a deep ball with a ton of arch. Britt and Quick are gonna feast on jump balls, especially Britt.

Our 3-5 WR's are shorter. Therefore I feel they get overlooked with shorter (than Foles) QB's that couldn't overlook the incoming rushers as well as Foles (keeps eyes down field really well.) Austin, Bailey, Givens/Cooper finally have a QB that can get them the ball. They should of got more passes last year.

TE's- Straight up, Rams got a way better group. Not only is Cook better than Ertz, he's not the only good pass catching TE on the team. Kendricks and Harkey are both as solid as you can ask out of #2 and #3 TE's.

Running backs- We dont have Sproles or McCoy, but it's not a huge drop off. Mason and Cunningham is a really good tandem and Watts and Stacy are excellent #3 and #4 RB's. It's a very good, deep, group but I do give the top end talent to PHI, of course. But this group will have more production with a QB that has a deep ball to keep D's honest.

Very, very, excited for this season.

Bonus opinions: My top three options in the draft have changed for the 10th pick.

1. Cooper
2. Scherff
3. Trade down.

Cooper's cutting ability would make him a great slot guy and course he can step right in if anybody gets hurt. Our offense wouldn't miss a beat.

Look, I love your optimism, but to say our supporting staff is better than the Eagles over the past two seasons tells me that you've been drinking too much:

 

[iced]

You're missing the point. Having a pessimistic stance doesn't make you a "realist" and it doesn't make people who think higher of our players "homers".

What's fact or fiction here? The Rams haven't had a receiver break 800 yards (as if 800 should be some acceptable bench mark) since 2008 and have gone threw a slew of them, a lot of which are no longer in the league.

Resorting to that sort of non-sense is what Plaza or Old Larry would do rather than try to have a real discussion.

Well I'm not most certainly getting that vibe from someone when I read something along the lines of "Stats don't matter at all and my opinion is my opinion - so thats that." That sounds like you're firmly rooted in your beliefs and there isn't even the thought of entertaining a different possibility - so nothings up for discussion.

Yes, it's fictitious...as I just explained.

No - it's really not, and you replied nothing to my previous post that would indicate otherwise either.

But since this is the direction you want to head in:
Maclin + Matthews in 2014 - 18 TDs combined
Holt + Bruce in 2000 - 15 TDs combined

Apparently, Maclin + Matthews > prime Holt + prime Bruce. Learn something new every day.

Since when did you turn into a strawman? I expected more from you

I also doubt there's coordinators fearing Maclin.

To each his own - I'm sure I could easily find snippets from opposing coordinators but i'm sure they would just be debunked with "well what else is he supposed to say"

If they're that concerned with his shoulder, we'll likely see them make a move in the draft. Which only makes our WR corp stronger.

Which they need to do anyway

 

[jrry32]

Well I'm not most certainly getting that vibe from someone when I read something along the lines of "Stats don't matter at all and my opinion is my opinion - so thats that." That sounds like you're firmly rooted in your beliefs and there isn't even the thought of entertaining a different possibility - so nothings up for discussion.

Maybe I'd be amenable to change if something more than stats was brought to the table. Sorry but you're not going to convince me my opinion from film is wrong based on stats. I'm certainly willing to hear a person out and consider their point of view if they bring analysis based on film to the table. In the end, I might still stick to my guns but I'll certainly respect the point you're making.

But stats? No. It does nothing for me. Any person with access to the internet can pull stats off. It just doesn't make the viewpoint your arguing credible to me.

Since when did you turn into a strawman? I expected more from you

Not a strawman, bud. You're contending that those two having more TDs make them better than our WRs. That point directly addresses your argument. If we are to believe that having more receiving TDs makes Matthews and Maclin better than our guys then it would have to apply to Bruce and Holt in 2000 as well.

To each his own - I'm sure I could easily find snippets from opposing coordinators but i'm sure they would just be debunked with "well what else is he supposed to say"

Just as I'm sure if I found snippets on our guys, you'd respond with the same.

Which they need to do anyway

NEED to do? Nah. But I'm certainly in favor of it if it's Cooper or White.