Fitting Tavon into the run heavy offense

[jap]

How do you get Tavon involved, you ask? You send the Gurley Man wide off tackle, drawing the entire defense to his side. Meanwhile, Tavon, who threw a block as though it's a running play, has streaked down field. The Gurley Man cocks his arm and lets it rip down field where Mr. Excitement gathers it in. The key is sucking the safeties forward and Tavon outrunning the CB down field.

It's a gadget play, of course, but when you have the ultimate gadget guy, why the hell not?

 

[tbux]

well the good thing Coach- if teams decide to play 2 deep, they are going to get gashed by Gurley and Mason. IF they cheat one up, Tavon or Britt should be able to beat them deep. There are a myriad of reasons he was ineffective- game plan, OC, Run game, Oline, backup QBs, and yes Tavon himself. I dong think he is as hapless as some of you suggest with knowing the offense. I don't see that. I don't see running wrong routes, I say that because if that were the case, he would be getting admonished on the sidelines constantly, and I don't recall one of those moments. Again lets see this year- we should have run game and better QB- so if he doesn't show up this year, Im with you all, but I think he will have a very nice year.

 

[Rams43]

The problem isn't just Tavon and it wasn't just Schotty and it wasn't just the QB situation.

Tavon needs to run better routes and learn the mental part of the game, this is agreed on by everyone. He just isn't there yet in his development. He struggles recognizing coverages and he can't get separation. He can't just get by on his athleticism anymore.

The OC needs to recognize this and make it easier on Tavon, simplify the playbook. If anything, reports said Schotty made it harder for him to pick up and it was difficult. Cignetti emphasized simplifying the playbook when he was promoted, for good reason. There's just too much for Tavon to know at this point, so he's thinking instead of playing fast.

The QB also needs to get the ball to Tavon more. Too many times I would see Hill or Davis or Clemens miss Tavon when he's wide open on crossing routes. I'm not sure what the problem is, height maybe, but if the QB can't see him, he can't get the ball no matter how open he is.

There's even more to it than all this, and I've seen most of it expressed in this thread. It's just a combination of everything.

Simply an outstanding post, DYVKX. (Helluva handle, btw).

I, too, think it's a combination of all three factors.

And the good news is that 2 of the 3 have been addressed this offseason. New QB and new OC. So perhaps we'll see a more effective Tavon this year.

If not, then I think we will have gotten our answer through a process of elimination. I'm really pulling for the kid. He has scary good potential, IMO.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Looking for a football fix, I've watched a few games on NFL Rewind the past few days and while I still believe the outside WR Desean Jackson model is the way to go.........Austin did seem open on several plays where he didn't get the football.

Maybe the QBs really couldn't see him.

 

[-X-]

Looking for a football fix, I've watched a few games on NFL Rewind the past few days and while I still believe the outside WR Desean Jackson model is the way to go.........Austin did seem open on several plays where he didn't get the football.

Maybe the QBs really couldn't see him.

That's what I saw too. He was on the outside quite a few times, and sometimes not even directly. He would motion out of the slot on crossing patterns (with the flanker) that turned into out-n-ups on the perimeter. I don't think just 'sticking him on the outside' is going to be the answer. While fast, he's not going to win jump battles, and it's incredibly difficult to drop a ball in the bucket between the safety and corner to a receiver of his stature.

 

[bluecollarram]

That's what I saw too. He was on the outside quite a few times, and sometimes not even directly. He would motion out of the slot on crossing patterns (with the flanker) that turned into out-n-ups on the perimeter. I don't think just 'sticking him on the outside' is going to be the answer. While fast, he's not going to win jump battles, and it's incredibly difficult to drop a ball in the bucket between the safety and corner to a receiver of his stature.

While I agree with part of your post, TA has the speed to destroy the angle of the safety.

 

[-X-]

While I agree with part of your post, TA has the speed to destroy the angle of the safety.

I don't disagree with that. But you can't rely on defenses playing so ridiculously stupid against us as the Colts did.

 

[bluecollarram]

I don't disagree with that. But you can't rely on defenses playing so ridiculously stupid against us as the Colts did.

That is true, however he burned the Cardinals a couple times. Don't have the gif but, I remember the cards DB faking a hamstring to minimize the shit he was going to hear on the sidelines. Like most players, if put in an advantageous matchup, the D looks silly. TA has tools that "you can't teach".

 

[-X-]

That is true, however he burned the Cardinals a couple times. Don't have the gif but, I remember the cards DB faking a hamstring to minimize the crap he was going to hear on the sidelines. Like most players, if put in an advantageous matchup, the D looks silly. TA has tools that "you can't teach".

I agree. There are quite a few situations that TA can be put in (or find himself in) that will maximize his skill set.
Curious what your take on Givens is. Meaning, why do you think his deep speed was eventually neutralized by defenses.

 

[RamWoodie]

Too much over analysis if you ask me (and I'm no expert). I have watch a LOT of football in 60 years though.

Tavon is going to be fine. Sure...he still has a lot to learn but I like his attitude and his confidence.

 

[Zaphod]

This is not the same style of team he had in Tennessee. That team had a variable that they just do not have. And that was McNair. There is no comparison to Foles and McNair.

And while the same can be said about Foles and Wilson, I just think that they are going to be more committed to STICKING with a running game, and everything they do will go thru that. By promoting Boras to be in charge of the running game, I just think they want to make it more of a priority. For all the talk about wanting to be a ball control, limit turnovers, and RUN THE BALL, they tended to be quick to abandon it under Schottenheimer. That's the biggest criticism I had with his playcalling. He tended to get frustrtated if they weren't having early success in games, and he would go completely away from it, which IMO. This had more to do with the 2nd half let downs in the past 2 years than anything else.

While I don't think they will throw the ball as infrequently as Seattle does, I do think they will aim to limit Foles to 22-25 passes per game max. The play action game will be thier biggest weapon. And yes, I do think they will take more downfield shots because of it.

I completely agree with your criticism of Shottenheimer, but to be fair, there were times that it just seemed like our line was overwhelmed. Would you consider Tavon to be a draft pick that Brian really pulled some strings to get? I certainly thought so, especially as much as he tried to force the ball to him in his rookie season.

 

[Zaphod]

This isn't a run first team, the only people I recall making a big deal out of the Rams being a power running/run oriented/run first team were fans who were looking at Fishers past in TN when he was doing what he could with limits at the QB position several seasons.

This Rams team is built to PASS. They spent $$$ on FA and draft capital too. They just made a move to reduce the risk at QB, and I don't think they do that deal for Foles because he excecutes a nice handoff. They did it because he throws the ball better than Bradford ever did and they have targets to throw to.

I think the truth is somewhere in between. Our offensive line is young and will need to limit their mistakes, and rushing the ball helps that a lot. As well they all tend to lean towards being run blockers rather pass protectors.

IMO, that means that any opposing coordinator will expect, and plan for seeing one or two tight ends to assist with speed rushers. But just because a lot of the plays are going to look and smell like runs, doesn't mean that we won't burn with Cook, Kendricks, Quick and Britt when teams start cheating on the run.

It is what it is, play action football. And it doesn't have to mean that we'll run more than pass. But I do think that teams will have to respect our threat to run because: our offensive line will be mauling them, and we'll have Gurley, Mason and yes occasionally Austin in the backfield.

Can Tavon Austin fit in? Sure, but I've always felt like he was Shottenheimer guy, and I don't doubt that he could be traded should the need arise.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I agree. There are quite a few situations that TA can be put in (or find himself in) that will maximize his skill set.
Curious what your take on Givens is. Meaning, why do you think his deep speed was eventually neutralized by defenses.

Givens isn't as fast, doesn't have long speed, and hasn't been a threat to do anything more.

And he doesn't have the strength / physicality of a bigger WR to offset those shortcomings.

Anyone else notice that while Givens could get deep, he seemed to get caught from behind quite a bit (which affected his TD production).

 

[shaunpinney]

Tavon will be just fine in our 'run-first' ground & pound game. The way I look at it, he has that "x" factor and speed, he will be heavily marked, but every so often, he will have a break-out game, which means that opposition eyes are going to be on him at all times - I've heard a number of teams comment on the fact that "11's on the field". Him just being on the field can open the game up for our other receivers and HBs.

We know what he can do on returns, if we lessen the penalties then he'd have better yardage and TD count there, probably a pro-bowl contender.

With regards to him as a WR, what we need to do is use the speed that we have on the team, keep the offense moving quickly, limit the huddles, I remember reading Fisher commenting about the speed of the team, after all you can't teach speed.

As a side note, he can take the ball from Foles, hide behind Havenstein, when everyone's confused, he can jump out from beneath his jersey and run for 6...

 

[LACHAMP46]

Finally, some football.....I got some work to get to so I'll try to be brief.....

are you suggesting he hasn't given 100%?

Definitely has given a hundred...on the field...I question his study habits..just because most pros say this is where their game really improved the longer they were in the league...

Well, read what you said and went-a-lookin on the ole internet...found this gem http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/4/18/4238742/2013-nfl-draft-tavon-austin-cordarrelle-patterson-wonderlic-scores. I'm still a fan, Once a Mountaineer Always a Mountaineer, he is what he is. Sounds like your coaches better find a way to put him in a position where athletic skill is enough.

I remember this story well...I'm so glad AJ Green is still working magic...so there is hope...I don't buy the wonderlic limitations theory...but he's gotta get better...I think tavon broke my boy RVB

he trying to recreate what he had with the Titan's when he met the Ram's in the SB!?!

Not sure, but Fisher had a dynamic lil receiver named Mason....but that QB McNair was special...I think Fisher just likes playmakers after seeing Bruce & Torry..Az Hakim wasn't bad either....

If you watch the highlight tape of the OK game there was nothing gimmicky about it

Oklahoma....man they've had the worst looking defense in that great colleges history the last 5 years...College football defenses have been down...as in down-right-bad....ugly football going on right now...

My challenge to you sharp guys...why was he open

See the terrible defenses theme above...that's my story, and I'm sticking to it...

Your point about perhaps being "gun shy" since a big hit might be correct, I don't know.

A lot of guys look like they wanna avoid being hit...I get that...He doesn't look like he EVER wants to go across the middle...EVER!!! I thought he was gonna be Danny A...He's still got time but damn....He needs to show me he wants it...

it's easier to get him that matchup/coverage playing him outside vs. in the slot

No effin way....it is much easier to get open in the slot, using motion, routes, just all the traffic to get lost in...rather than line across a #1 cb and fight their way off the LOS...No way....simple football 101....it's why all the old wrs go in there to extend their careers

I don't think they do that deal for Foles because he excecutes a nice handoff. They did it because he throws the ball better than Bradford ever did and they have targets to throw to.

small Les break...BLASPHEMER!!!!!!!!!

Based upon Fisher's comments, I think (hope) they've finally figured out that he's not a slot WR.

He better be....all I can say Memphis...he is in year 3, when a lot of wrs start to get it...I hope the plays are basically the same...I did well when I took Spanish the 3rd time as well

Why does TA have to "break out" this year? That's simply a perception you have about him. TA is in his 3rd year and still learning. He doesn't have to "break out" (as you say), as he has to be consistent.

Year three is the historical time when a lot of wrs start to get it...he doesn't HAVE to get it now...But a lot of player personnel guys can save their jobs if Tavon catches 50-70 balls...

I still feel, well lets say that on the positive note, the Rams still believe he was the player they wanted, and while they haven't seen what they thought he could be, it appears they are changing the offense to aid a player with his talents...Schotty's gone...Guess who'll be next if he has more carry's than catches? Year 3...Still a Quick man meeself, but year 3...

 

[bluecollarram]

I agree. There are quite a few situations that TA can be put in (or find himself in) that will maximize his skill set.
Curious what your take on Givens is. Meaning, why do you think his deep speed was eventually neutralized by defenses.

My take on Givens is he isn't as agile as TA therefore no concern about going over the middle.
I know he has done it in the past but not consistently. Givens may be bigger than Austin but I don't think that he's as tough. "Want to" matters.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Well, read what you said and went-a-lookin on the ole internet...found this gem http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/4/18/4238742/2013-nfl-draft-tavon-austin-cordarrelle-patterson-wonderlic-scores. I'm still a fan, Once a Mountaineer Always a Mountaineer, he is what he is. Sounds like your coaches better find a way to put him in a position where athletic skill is enough.

To me, Austin is another example of Fisher's (and Snead to some degree) drafting philospohy.

It appears to me that, given the choice of:
1] Pure athlete with lower intelligence level
2] Higher intelligence level but less pure athleticism
They prefer #1.

When that happens, you sometimes get guys who struggle mightily to grasp the complexity of the NFL.

Quick took 3 years.... not sure Jenkins has figured it out yet and Austin (Ogletree is on the fence, IMO).

Great athletes and, if you happen to have three years to get them up to speed, they can become great players.

Of course, if you spend those three years and they never develop, you lost three years.

I tend to lean toward #2 above, but that's just me.

 

[Memphis Ram]

No effin way....it is much easier to get open in the slot, using motion, routes, just all the traffic to get lost in...rather than line across a #1 cb and fight their way off the LOS...No way....simple football 101....it's why all the old wrs go in there to extend their careers.

The point being made was that it would be easier for him to get one on one coverage outside vs. in the slot. Not which spot on the field is easier.

BTW, if Austin gets an opposing team's #1 CB (whom he probably still could run by) that's a huge win for the Rams other WRs, IMO.

 

[LACHAMP46]

The point being made was that it would be easier for him to get one on one coverage outside vs. in the slot. Not which spot on the field is easier.

BTW, if Austin gets an opposing team's #1 CB (whom he probably still could run by) that's a huge win for the Rams other WRs, IMO.

you seem to think that with just speed, he's automatically open...on like every down...I've seen nickle backs give him problems...the only time Tavon looks comfortable is in shirts & shorts...he looks okay when there are just drills with no pressure in pads...he disappears when there could be a safety around & the slightest possibility of some contact exists...

 

[12intheBox]

you seem to think that with just speed, he's automatically open...on like every down...I've seen nickle backs give him problems...the only time Tavon looks comfortable is in shirts & shorts...he looks okay when there are just drills with no pressure in pads...he disappears when there could be a safety around & the slightest possibility of some contact exists...

I don't agree with that. Tavon's problem doesn't seem to be an allergy to contact - its what has been described in this thread - being in the right place at the right time. Sure, he has had a drop or two to add to the frustration, but I really think its just that much harder to be a WR in the NFL than most people realize. There is just so much complexity in an NFL offense. Its not just knowing what to do on every play (and there are a buttload of plays) - its also knowing what to do on every play when you are looking at every conceivable look the defense is giving you - and even then - you have to be able to diagnose what the D is actually doing even though they are trying their hardest to disguise it.

We were patient with Quick, and he came around. Its Tavon time now. He will get it too.