Fishers performance

[nighttrain]

All problems of a young team, with a few of the older guys hurt. But at least we are close to .500, which would make me very, very happy
train

 

[fearsomefour]

I think many of us are under estimating the impact of being the "youngest team in the league" actually is.

It's one thing to be young in some positions, and we have all seen young PLAYERS succeed in certain situations. But when there is such a influx of inexperience across the board, as is the case on this team (28 players in their 1st or 2nd year), it will have a major impact on just how much you can throw at them.

I also think that Fisher (and staff) are coaching this team accordingly. We want guys like McLeod and even Jenkins to come in here an play like seasoned veterans, just because they are being counted on as key starters. The fact remains, they are still YOUNG players and are going to make mistakes.

Someone like Chris Givens, who burst on the scene last year, with a cluster of "big plays" was counted on to be a "seasoned veteran" and be that "go to guy" on a unit that is woefully inexperienced. Do you think its by coincidence that Austin Pettis is actually the most consistent WR on the roster? Notice, I didn't say the BEST, I said most consistent.

The continued mistakes on Special Teams, specifically the return units, are being made by ROOKIES, who, more often than not, are now being asked to perform a role many of them never were asked to perform while being the best players on their college teams. I am in no way trying to excuse it, merely trying to explain some of the things I have seen thru 5 games.

This is a much more talented team than it has been in years, but with that talent will continue to come mistakes from the youth and inexperience. I anticipate it will be much improved as the season progresses, but the growing pains are just a fact we are all going to have to live thru.

what i bolded and made large becuz it is Givens is in 2nd year, it took Bruce 4 years to make a name for himself, drafted in 95, not heard of around the league till 99, and before 99, so many hammies many thot he should be gone from roster.
train

Bruce had 119 catches for 1780 or so yards with 13 TDs in his second year. He had fully arrived and was a Pro Bowl level receiver by his second year.
Then he started having the injury problems that slowed him until 99. I do remember Ram fans demanded he be traded or cut because he could not stay on the field. Obviously, this is why a GM can not let his emotions make decisions.
It is unfair to compare Givens to Bruce....and I know this is NOT what you were doing. Bruce is a HOF player and an amazingly talented guy who was undervalued when drafted. Givens more than likely does not possess that talent level, that fine, he doesnt need to. I like Givens game and I think he will be just fine in St. Louis. I do understand your point. Writting off a guy who is finding a way to contribute in year number 2 can be a huge mistake and I agree. I think Givens should be used more on the intermediate crossing routes and just not vertical stuff. With his quickness he should open on those most of the time.

 

[CoachO]

I think many of us are under estimating the impact of being the "youngest team in the league" actually is.

It's one thing to be young in some positions, and we have all seen young PLAYERS succeed in certain situations. But when there is such a influx of inexperience across the board, as is the case on this team (28 players in their 1st or 2nd year), it will have a major impact on just how much you can throw at them.

I also think that Fisher (and staff) are coaching this team accordingly. We want guys like McLeod and even Jenkins to come in here an play like seasoned veterans, just because they are being counted on as key starters. The fact remains, they are still YOUNG players and are going to make mistakes.

Someone like Chris Givens, who burst on the scene last year, with a cluster of "big plays" was counted on to be a "seasoned veteran" and be that "go to guy" on a unit that is woefully inexperienced. Do you think its by coincidence that Austin Pettis is actually the most consistent WR on the roster? Notice, I didn't say the BEST, I said most consistent.

The continued mistakes on Special Teams, specifically the return units, are being made by ROOKIES, who, more often than not, are now being asked to perform a role many of them never were asked to perform while being the best players on their college teams. I am in no way trying to excuse it, merely trying to explain some of the things I have seen thru 5 games.

This is a much more talented team than it has been in years, but with that talent will continue to come mistakes from the youth and inexperience. I anticipate it will be much improved as the season progresses, but the growing pains are just a fact we are all going to have to live thru.

what i bolded and made large becuz it is Givens is in 2nd year, it took Bruce 4 years to make a name for himself, drafted in 95, not heard of around the league till 99, and before 99, so many hammies many thot he should be gone from roster.
train

Bruce had 119 catches for 1780 or so yards with 13 TDs in his second year. He had fully arrived and was a Pro Bowl level receiver by his second year.
Then he started having the injury problems that slowed him until 99. I do remember Ram fans demanded he be traded or cut because he could not stay on the field. Obviously, this is why a GM can not let his emotions make decisions.
It is unfair to compare Givens to Bruce....and I know this is NOT what you were doing. Bruce is a HOF player and an amazingly talented guy who was undervalued when drafted. Givens more than likely does not possess that talent level, that fine, he doesnt need to. I like Givens game and I think he will be just fine in St. Louis. I do understand your point. Writting off a guy who is finding a way to contribute in year number 2 can be a huge mistake and I agree. I think Givens should be used more on the intermediate crossing routes and just not vertical stuff. With his quickness he should open on those most of the time.

The problem with your "thoughts" on how Givens SHOULD be used, is that he is NOT the least bit interested in going over the middle. The guy that is virtually unstoppable on that "deep dig" route is Quick. But they just don't seem inclined to use him in that capacity.

Givens may indeed develop into a more complete WR, but he just doesn't like contact. He will not go over the middle, he doesn't want to catch the slant unless he gets soft coverage at the LOS.

At this point, regardless of how he should be used, he is a one trick pony, and teams have found it to be pretty easy to take him away.

 

[fearsomefour]

I think many of us are under estimating the impact of being the "youngest team in the league" actually is.

It's one thing to be young in some positions, and we have all seen young PLAYERS succeed in certain situations. But when there is such a influx of inexperience across the board, as is the case on this team (28 players in their 1st or 2nd year), it will have a major impact on just how much you can throw at them.

I also think that Fisher (and staff) are coaching this team accordingly. We want guys like McLeod and even Jenkins to come in here an play like seasoned veterans, just because they are being counted on as key starters. The fact remains, they are still YOUNG players and are going to make mistakes.

Someone like Chris Givens, who burst on the scene last year, with a cluster of "big plays" was counted on to be a "seasoned veteran" and be that "go to guy" on a unit that is woefully inexperienced. Do you think its by coincidence that Austin Pettis is actually the most consistent WR on the roster? Notice, I didn't say the BEST, I said most consistent.

The continued mistakes on Special Teams, specifically the return units, are being made by ROOKIES, who, more often than not, are now being asked to perform a role many of them never were asked to perform while being the best players on their college teams. I am in no way trying to excuse it, merely trying to explain some of the things I have seen thru 5 games.

This is a much more talented team than it has been in years, but with that talent will continue to come mistakes from the youth and inexperience. I anticipate it will be much improved as the season progresses, but the growing pains are just a fact we are all going to have to live thru.

what i bolded and made large becuz it is Givens is in 2nd year, it took Bruce 4 years to make a name for himself, drafted in 95, not heard of around the league till 99, and before 99, so many hammies many thot he should be gone from roster.
train

Bruce had 119 catches for 1780 or so yards with 13 TDs in his second year. He had fully arrived and was a Pro Bowl level receiver by his second year.
Then he started having the injury problems that slowed him until 99. I do remember Ram fans demanded he be traded or cut because he could not stay on the field. Obviously, this is why a GM can not let his emotions make decisions.
It is unfair to compare Givens to Bruce....and I know this is NOT what you were doing. Bruce is a HOF player and an amazingly talented guy who was undervalued when drafted. Givens more than likely does not possess that talent level, that fine, he doesnt need to. I like Givens game and I think he will be just fine in St. Louis. I do understand your point. Writting off a guy who is finding a way to contribute in year number 2 can be a huge mistake and I agree. I think Givens should be used more on the intermediate crossing routes and just not vertical stuff. With his quickness he should open on those most of the time.

The problem with your "thoughts" on how Givens SHOULD be used, is that he is NOT the least bit interested in going over the middle. The guy that is virtually unstoppable on that "deep dig" route is Quick. But they just don't seem inclined to use him in that capacity.

Givens may indeed develop into a more complete WR, but he just doesn't like contact. He will not go over the middle, he doesn't want to catch the slant unless he gets soft coverage at the LOS.

At this point, regardless of how he should be used, he is a one trick pony, and teams have found it to be pretty easy to take him away.

SO then the question becomes is this something that can be developed? Neither of us know in the case of an individual player. So, from what you are saying we have a talented receiver with no interest is exploiting all of his talent. We also have a physcially gifted TE with no interest in doing what his position requires. Seems we are collecting a roster of primadonnas. Too bad.

 

[OnceARam]

I think many of us are under estimating the impact of being the "youngest team in the league" actually is.

It's one thing to be young in some positions, and we have all seen young PLAYERS succeed in certain situations. But when there is such a influx of inexperience across the board, as is the case on this team (28 players in their 1st or 2nd year), it will have a major impact on just how much you can throw at them.

I also think that Fisher (and staff) are coaching this team accordingly. We want guys like McLeod and even Jenkins to come in here an play like seasoned veterans, just because they are being counted on as key starters. The fact remains, they are still YOUNG players and are going to make mistakes.

Someone like Chris Givens, who burst on the scene last year, with a cluster of "big plays" was counted on to be a "seasoned veteran" and be that "go to guy" on a unit that is woefully inexperienced. Do you think its by coincidence that Austin Pettis is actually the most consistent WR on the roster? Notice, I didn't say the BEST, I said most consistent.

The continued mistakes on Special Teams, specifically the return units, are being made by ROOKIES, who, more often than not, are now being asked to perform a role many of them never were asked to perform while being the best players on their college teams. I am in no way trying to excuse it, merely trying to explain some of the things I have seen thru 5 games.

This is a much more talented team than it has been in years, but with that talent will continue to come mistakes from the youth and inexperience. I anticipate it will be much improved as the season progresses, but the growing pains are just a fact we are all going to have to live thru.

what i bolded and made large becuz it is Givens is in 2nd year, it took Bruce 4 years to make a name for himself, drafted in 95, not heard of around the league till 99, and before 99, so many hammies many thot he should be gone from roster.
train

Bruce had 119 catches for 1780 or so yards with 13 TDs in his second year. He had fully arrived and was a Pro Bowl level receiver by his second year.
Then he started having the injury problems that slowed him until 99. I do remember Ram fans demanded he be traded or cut because he could not stay on the field. Obviously, this is why a GM can not let his emotions make decisions.
It is unfair to compare Givens to Bruce....and I know this is NOT what you were doing. Bruce is a HOF player and an amazingly talented guy who was undervalued when drafted. Givens more than likely does not possess that talent level, that fine, he doesnt need to. I like Givens game and I think he will be just fine in St. Louis. I do understand your point. Writting off a guy who is finding a way to contribute in year number 2 can be a huge mistake and I agree. I think Givens should be used more on the intermediate crossing routes and just not vertical stuff. With his quickness he should open on those most of the time.

The problem with your "thoughts" on how Givens SHOULD be used, is that he is NOT the least bit interested in going over the middle. The guy that is virtually unstoppable on that "deep dig" route is Quick. But they just don't seem inclined to use him in that capacity.

Givens may indeed develop into a more complete WR, but he just doesn't like contact. He will not go over the middle, he doesn't want to catch the slant unless he gets soft coverage at the LOS.

At this point, regardless of how he should be used, he is a one trick pony, and teams have found it to be pretty easy to take him away.

SO then the question becomes is this something that can be developed? Neither of us know in the case of an individual player. So, from what you are saying we have a talented receiver with no interest is exploiting all of his talent. We also have a physcially gifted TE with no interest in doing what his position requires. Seems we are collecting a roster of primadonnas. Too bad.

I'd say your last point puts a bow on this argument (i.e., that there's more than one reason we're under performing). Also don't forget Saffold throwing a sh*t fit over getting moved to RT, rather than reacting in a positive team-first manner.