Fisher & Davis

[TexRamFan]

IMO, and only being a fan and couch observer, Davis has earned another start. However, I am not at practice, in the film room, or behind closed doors so I can only speculate.....

But I am starting to think there is obviously something holding Fisher back from going with Davis. But what is it? Bad picks (because Hill's pick was pretty bad in the opener), youth, lack of knowledge, still learning?

Anyway, this quote sure got me thinking more about it from the presser yesterday..."I thought he played, like I said last night, good enough to win, but you got to see where you’re cutting that ball loose and he didn’t. He cut that ball loose, he got some pressure and cut it loose. Interception for a touchdown is not a good thing. It happens, but overall I thought he played a little bit better than he did last week.”

Played good enough to win?

A "little" better than last week?

I thought he played great except for that one big mistake, but he is basically a rookie.

I thought he played much better than last week except for that one big mistake, but again, he is a rookie.

Does Fisher really value making smart decisions (no turnovers) more than potential or play making ability or ability to move the ball down the field?

So my question is, although the fan base seems to heavily favor Davis for his excitement, play making ability and a sense of "freshness" at the QB position, what is the reason for Fisher's reluctance to go with Davis?

Is it his in-experience and youth?

I used to think he was just throwing a smoke-screen at opposing defenses and not naming a starter until needed, now I am starting to think something else is going on.

Any thoughts?

 

[rhinobean]

If giving the ball to Hill doesn't equate to wins then, Davis needs to play for next year! The way he looked Sun. makes it hard not to see if he's our future qb!

 

[Orchid]

I thought he played great except for that one big mistake, but he is basically a rookie.

I thought the last interception was just as bad. It was not the time to try to force the ball deep into triple coverage when you had two other receivers wide open over the middle. We needed just about 30-40yds yards for a FG. and completion who have got close to 20 yds with time left on the clock. My guess is Fisher was not pleased with the decision making.

 

[Prime Time]

Over his career Shaun Hill has 41 TD's and 24 Int's which is not too bad but he's not really that great at "making smart decisions (no turnovers)" himself. So I have no idea why Fisher would want to start him over Austin Davis but he's the coach and sees things the rest of us don't.

http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/11463/turning-point-play-shaun-hills-interception

Turning point play: Shaun Hill's interception
September, 8, 2014
By Nick Wagoner | ESPN.com

EARTH CITY, Mo. -- With a new season upon us, it's a good time to try some new things for this corner of cyberspace. Some will work, some won't, so feel free to offer feedback on whether you want to see this continue or not. But I want to introduce a new Monday feature in which we'll look back at a play in the game that was instrumental in leading to its result.

Most weeks there will be more than one play to choose from but we'll try to pick the one that stands out most.

With the procedural stuff out of the way, here's a look back at the turning point play from the Rams' 34-6 Week 1 loss to the Minnesota Vikings:

The situation: With 1:13 to go in the first half, the Rams trailed 6-0 and had the ball on second-and-16 at their 19. On the previous play, Minnesota defensive tackle Tom Johnsonsacked Rams quarterback Shaun Hill, forcing a fumble that Hill fell on for a loss of 6. At the time, Minnesota had two timeouts remaining.

The play: With two receivers split to each side, Hill takes the snap out of the shotgun formation. In a common scene from the day, the Vikings rushed only four and created immediate pressure on Hill, particularly from both edges, forcing Hill to roll to his right. With tight end Jared Cook running a deep out from the slot, Hill forces a pass intended for Cook from his back foot into double coverage down the right sideline. Cook never had a chance to make a play on it, though, as cornerback Josh Robinson elevated for it and got his feet down in an athletic play for the interception at the Rams' 35.

The fallout: In a game in which field goals looked like the path to victory, Minnesota took advantage of the prime field position and scored the game's first touchdown four plays later to take a 13-0 lead into the locker room. It was also the last pass Hill threw on the day as the Rams announced he was dealing with a thigh/quad injury. Minnesota dominated from there.

After the game, coach Jeff Fisher said the Rams had hoped to go into the locker room at 6-0 and the interception was when things started to slip away.

“Our hope there was that right before we threw the interception, we would go in at halftime down six, regroup, take possession of the ball in the third quarter and go and make some plays," Fisher said. "This game was taking on the appearance of a 13-10 type of game prior to us going into the locker room down 13, and then obviously things just slipped away there."

Considering the Rams were going to get the ball first in the second half, that would be a perfectly logical approach were it not for the illogical execution of the idea. If indeed the Rams were content to go into the locker room down 6-0 after the sack and fumble nearly resulted in disaster, why then did they continue to throw the ball like a team looking to put a drive together?

Hill's decision to throw that pass was undoubtedly awful and the Rams paid for it but a strong argument can be made that he never should have been put dropping back to pass in the first place.

 

[blue4]

I thought the last interception was just as bad. It was not the time to try to force the ball deep into triple coverage when you had two other receivers wide open over the middle. We needed just about 30-40yds yards for a FG. and completion who have got close to 20 yds with time left on the clock. My guess is Fisher was not pleased with the decision making.

Quick times his jump better thats a catch for a big gain. It's not like it was tipped. That was a catchable ball. 40 yards min for a FG with no timeouts? I can't think of a time more suited to try to go downfield. Not to jump on Davis's side, but Fisher's staff made more poor decisions than Davis did.

 

[Faceplant]

Fisher is beginning to lose me a bit. Unless I am missing something, the Offense is NOT at fault for Sunday's loss. Bad defense and coaching top that list.

 

[Legatron4]

You know, if the defense wasn't completely awful Davis wouldn't have thrown any picks and we would be talking about how good his decision making is. I 100% blame the defense for this loss. You should never ever lose when your up 21-0 in the first half. I don't care about exciting the crowd. He made plays downfield and did what he had to do. Completely ridiculous for Fisher to not start him because of those picks.

 

[Rams and Gators]

"I thought he played, like I said last night, good enough to win, but you got to see where you’re cutting that ball loose and he didn’t. He cut that ball loose, he got some pressure and cut it loose. Interception for a touchdown is not a good thing. It happens, but overall I thought he played a little bit better than he did last week.”

If Wells still plays then it speaks volumes, chastise a "rookie" for making a rookie mistake, but don't do the same for a veteran.

 

[TexRamFan]

If Wells still plays then it speaks volumes, chastise a "rookie" for making a rookie mistake, but don't do the same for a veteran.

I hate to throw fuel on the fire, but if you listen to The Jeff Fisher Show from the other night, Fisher comes off to me as putting more blame on Davis for that fumble than Wells. He does not directly say it, but he mentions communication and Davis making audibles at the line, etc. Maybe that goes back to Davis still learning and overall at a much higher risk for turnovers.

 

[ZigZagRam]

I hate to throw fuel on the fire, but if you listen to The Jeff Fisher Show from the other night, Fisher comes off to me as putting more blame on Davis for that fumble than Wells. He does not directly say it, but he mentions communication and Davis making audibles at the line, etc. Maybe that goes back to Davis still learning and overall at a much higher risk for turnovers.

That's one possibility that people, myself included, haven't considered. If he audibled to a play where he should've been under center, that would be on Davis, though you certainly would have to think Wells could tell if his hands were under his ass.

Maybe those two just need to get a little more friendly.

 

[Athos]

If Wells still plays then it speaks volumes, chastise a "rookie" for making a rookie mistake, but don't do the same for a veteran.

Agreed. And this is something Wells did in what, two straight games? The second of which led to points? You should demand much much from your veteran, pro-bowl center than your 3rd string rookie QB starting his starting career game ever. This is where Fisher loses me greatly and leaves me confused. Davis gave up points on the pick 6, but so did Wells and Wells not only took points from the Rams on a likely scoring drive, he gave em right back to DAL. Bigger mistake.

INTs happen. Fumble snaps SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN! Especially in back-to-back games.

I also think that "playing a little bit better" than that TB game is disingenuous. He threw for 4 TDs as far as I'm concerned. And for being asked to pass as much as he did, he did well. Fisher has to know to run the ball after DAL goes up 27-24 with 6 minutes on the clock.

 

[snackdaddy]

This loss was on the defense all the way. A defense we thought would be top ten is bottom ten. Were they that badly overrated? Or did they buy into the hype and figured it would come easy? I would say a little of both.

 

[Athos]

I hate to throw fuel on the fire, but if you listen to The Jeff Fisher Show from the other night, Fisher comes off to me as putting more blame on Davis for that fumble than Wells. He does not directly say it, but he mentions communication and Davis making audibles at the line, etc. Maybe that goes back to Davis still learning and overall at a much higher risk for turnovers.

I'd need to see the replay, but I want to say Davis lined up from the get-go in shotgun, not under center. Maybe there was a different play in the huddle, but like was stated, the QBs hands are pretty much pressed against the center's ass when you go under center. How you can't feel that on your ass is beyond me.

 

[DaveFan'51]

You know, if the defense wasn't completely awful Davis wouldn't have thrown any picks and we would be talking about how good his decision making is

I don't see were our D play had anything to do with Davis's INT's! The D may have played poorly, in the second half, but their not on the field with Davis, His poor choice of Targets lead to them! and cost us. He admitted as much after the game.

 

[Rams and Gators]

I'd need to see the replay, but I want to say Davis lined up from the get-go in shotgun, not under center. Maybe there was a different play in the huddle, but like was stated, the QBs hands are pretty much pressed against the center's ass when you go under center. How you can't feel that on your ass is beyond me.

Yeah at no point was he within 2 yards of Wells.

 

[Legatron4]

I don't see were our D play had anything to do with Davis's INT's! The D may have played poorly, in the second half, but their not on the field with Davis, His poor choice of Targets lead to them! and cost us. He admitted as much after the game.

The defense had everything to do with those INTs. No, they weren't the direct cause of them. But if they don't lay an egg we have no reason to throw the ball at all. 21-0 man. You just can't lose those games in the NFL. I love Bradford, but the dude had maybe 2 or 3 of those games in his career that Davis had in his 2nd career start. He's legit and I don't see why you would bother with Shaun Hill at this point. And yes, it's Tuesday am I'm STILL pissed.

 

[ZigZagRam]

The defense had everything to do with those INTs. No, they weren't the direct cause of them. But if they don't lay an egg we have no reason to throw the ball at all. 21-0 man. You just can't lose those games in the NFL. I love Bradford, but the dude had maybe 2 or 3 of those games in his career that Davis had in his 2nd career start. He's legit and I don't see why you would bother with Shaun Hill at this point. And yes, it's Tuesday am I'm STILL pissed.

I think two games is a little early to be calling anybody legit. We've yet to play a good defense.

He played well, but I think some are going a little overboard here. I trust the coaches to make the right decision because they know more about these guys than anybody here.

 

[DaveFan'51]

The defense had everything to do with those INTs. No, they weren't the direct cause of them. But if they don't lay an egg we have no reason to throw the ball at all. 21-0 man. You just can't lose those games in the NFL. I love Bradford, but the dude had maybe 2 or 3 of those games in his career that Davis had in his 2nd career start. He's legit and I don't see why you would bother with Shaun Hill at this point. And yes, it's Tuesday am I'm STILL pissed.

You make some valid points, and I too, can't believe we blew a 21-zip lead, and I'm pissed too. But Remember the 24 hour rule! Be of good cheer, and think about taking it out on Philly!!

 

[LetsGoRams]

I thought Fisher said that 'butt fumble' was "All on Scott". Young QB's are going to make mistakes. But the dude is leading the league in completion percentage. And they are not all just dinks and dunks. He's going down the field and making plays. In my opinion, it's idiotic at this point to start Hill over Davis. Davis has obviously proven he can win and put this team in a position to win. Hill hasn't.

 

[Orchid]

Quick times his jump better thats a catch for a big gain. It's not like it was tipped. That was a catchable ball. 40 yards min for a FG with no timeouts? I can't think of a time more suited to try to go downfield. Not to jump on Davis's side, but Fisher's staff made more poor decisions than Davis did.

Maybe Calvin Johnson makes that catch 1 in 10 times. No other WR Does. Quick was bracketed short and long and the back defenders had to leap to make the catch.

65 seconds w/ no time outs with the goal to get in FG range has been practices since OTAs. I am positive an outside deep jump ball into the teeth of the defensive was not the plan with that much time left. The plan was to send 2 receivers deep on each side and work another WR and or TE across the middle. My belief was he was supposed to go to one of the inside receivers or throw it away. He never looked inside and Quick was never open.

Personally thought it was one of the better game plan and play calling by this OC I have seen. He gave Davis alot of 1/3 to half field reads. He struggles with full field reads. That was a full field read. Davis did not get it right.