Every pass thrown Gibson's way last year

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-X-

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Per the title, here's a video of every pass thrown to Gibson last year. What this video tells me, above anything else, is that "Catch Percentage" is a complete bullshit statistic. The second thing it tells me is that Gibson is an asset as a receiver. Maybe he's not the dominant "#1" receiver that everyone wants, but he can be a great role player like Laurent Robinson was for Dallas. Think about that. Robinson kinda disappeared everywhere he played until he got on an offense that had Dez Bryant, Miles Austin and Jason Witten to take the pressure off of him. In an offense where he was a primary target, he was meh. Gibson can beat safeties, he can beat some of the better corners, but he can't be a guy who carries the load.

Anyway, if you have a half-hour to kill, take a look.
Looking forward to your comments.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AvwKIJMHH8[/youtube]
 

rams24/7

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What I like:

-Gibby showed he could make plays in the clutch in 2012
-Caught the majority of the balls thrown his way
-Has the ability to make circus catches

What I DON'T like:

-Inconsistent hands: concentration/double catches led to many drops
-Drops came at bad times. See the early game drop against Chicago. Or the 3rd and 2 bobble and drop @ SF.
-Questionable football intangibles: I counted several wrong routes and a failed route adjustment when SF brought the all out blitz on a 3rd down situation. Not to mention what the video didn't show: the several times he lined up wrong in 2012. He also had a drive killing personal foul on our first drive @ DET where he decked the corner after the whistle for no reason. Danny got 15 on 3rd down just to give us a FG opportunity.
-Limited route tree: he can run 2 routes: the deep comeback/out and the slant
-Separation: his average speed/accel/strength limit his ability to separate. That is why you saw essentially no passes travel 20+ to him (with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions). This led to him having a 2 game stretch with NO CATCHES.

Ultimately Gibby is an average athlete who has maxed out his potential. He can catch the ball when he focuses, but tends to have mental lapses at times. He has chemistry with Sam, but he should after 3 years. The skill set he brings to the table and what a starting flanker spot in the NFL entails, do not match. He is a #4 at best for us, but the career year he had is going to boost his value on the open market to the $2-$3 mill range for some team. Sorry but I don't want to pay a maxed out player that much to be my 4th WR
 

-X-

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rams24/7 said:
What I like:

-Gibby showed he could make plays in the clutch in 2012
-Caught the majority of the balls thrown his way
-Has the ability to make circus catches

What I DON'T like:

-Inconsistent hands: concentration/double catches led to many drops
-Drops came at bad times. See the early game drop against Chicago. Or the 3rd and 2 bobble and drop @ SF.
-Questionable football intangibles: I counted several wrong routes and a failed route adjustment when SF brought the all out blitz on a 3rd down situation. Not to mention what the video didn't show: the several times he lined up wrong in 2012. He also had a drive killing personal foul on our first drive @ DET where he decked the corner after the whistle for no reason. Danny got 15 on 3rd down just to give us a FG opportunity.
-Limited route tree: he can run 2 routes: the deep comeback/out and the slant
-Separation: his average speed/accel/strength limit his ability to separate. That is why you saw essentially no passes travel 20+ to him (with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions). This led to him having a 2 game stretch with NO CATCHES.

Ultimately Gibby is an average athlete who has maxed out his potential. He can catch the ball when he focuses, but tends to have mental lapses at times. He has chemistry with Sam, but he should after 3 years. The skill set he brings to the table and what a starting flanker spot in the NFL entails, do not match. He is a #4 at best for us, but the career year he had is going to boost his value on the open market to the $2-$3 mill range for some team. Sorry but I don't want to pay a maxed out player that much to be my 4th WR
This will be a good topic for the show when we break it out. TST is going to run with this video too, so we should get more comments from them as well when they put out T_Bron's story. What I imagine will happen is, most fans are going to say he sucks and call it a day though. That's the way it's been since we picked him up in 2009.

Here's where I'm going to disagree (a bit) with you though, Nick.

• His hands are no more inconsistent than any of the top receivers in the league. In some cases, he's better.
• Drops coming at bad times is no anomaly either. If you REALLY watched, some were strips/good plays by corners.
• All due respect, you can't *see* a wrong route. You can see a failed sight adjustment, and there were 2.
• The things I didn't show were because they didn't fit the theme of the video, of course.
• Limited route tree? I dunno. I counted several slants, back-shoulder fade, double-move, end-zone fade, post, deep-out, bubble screen and curl. That's a lot more than 2 routes. I've also seen (in previous years), a killer stop-n-go and a decent 9 route to beat Nnamdi.
• Per play, Gibson was one of the 12 best receivers in the league last year in terms of DVOA, and that's DESPITE being used so sparingly. Not because he was used sparingly.
• Granted he's not a "big play" guy, but his average target depth is a hair under 13 yards. How's that bad?
• Yes, he made some pretty bad errors and does have mental lapses that shouldn't be occurring in year 4.

I agree he's more or less 'average', but that doesn't make him a liability, and I think it's important to make that distinction when talking about him. He can be a decent contributor without being responsible for 80% of the snaps at receiver. Like a Troy Brown or a Ricky Proehl. I don't know what the value of a 3rd down receiver is, or a guy who can benefit greatly from being an overlooked target on offense, but I do think that if he falls into that role, he'll flourish. After that he'll be gone. And believe it or not, that'll be a good thing. If it comes to the point that we have 3 other targets on offense that command so much attention that Brandon Gibson becomes the isolated receiver, and he puts up big numbers, then we'll be more or less set.

That's the theme of his career so far. Every year someone tries to unseat him, and they all fail. In what world does that make Gibson a bad receiver? Doesn't it mean that he's been better than the dozen or so guys who have tried to take his job already?
 

Username

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Good shit X. Only 7 minutes in and I can't help myself. QUINN OJINNAKA IS A WORTHLESS POS.

My thoughts on Gibby btw is that yes he is an asset, but there are disposable assets. Very knowledgeable player who can be a good role player. As stated by you previously. The question is though, at what cost? Imo he's already showed his ceiling. If he and Danny don't come back we'll have a pretty damn young receiving core though. Not considering FA moves.

Not as if we all already aren't, but if you wanna get even more excited about somebody do CG13 next. This kid will be special, and I'm not just talking about the deep balls at all. There's no doubt in my mind with this one.
 

-X-

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Username said:
Not as if we all already aren't, but if you wanna get even more excited about somebody do CG13 next. This kid will be special, and I'm not just talking about the deep balls at all. There's no doubt in my mind with this one.
I'm gonna. And then Pettis.
 

Username

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X said:
Username said:
Not as if we all already aren't, but if you wanna get even more excited about somebody do CG13 next. This kid will be special, and I'm not just talking about the deep balls at all. There's no doubt in my mind with this one.
I'm gonna. And then Pettis.

Awesome. Another reason why this place is the shit. :clap:
 

BatteringRambo

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Username said:
X said:
Username said:
Not as if we all already aren't, but if you wanna get even more excited about somebody do CG13 next. This kid will be special, and I'm not just talking about the deep balls at all. There's no doubt in my mind with this one.
I'm gonna. And then Pettis.

Awesome. Another reason why this place is the shit. :clap:

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BatteringRambo

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I'm a Gibby fan always have been...wouldn't mind seeing him back in action w/ us but like all NFL players respond..."It's a business."

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Zero

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excellent post.thanks.gives a good perspective on his year.
 

DR RAM

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I've always been a Gibson supporter, even at the risk of taking a public flogging defending him. This is my short take on him. I'd keep him at a good cost, and he could be an asset as a 3rd or 4th receiver. If our current talent, draft prospect, or, free agency acquisition overtakes him, then you can bump him. Right now, there is no reason to. None at all. Right now, he is the second or third best receiver on our team.
 

shaunpinney

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Another great post X - definitely goes to show Gibson's value to the Rams and I agree if we have a couple of other catching threats he'll be a great #2-3 - he was ranked in the top 50 WR's for 2012 with 691 yards, 0 fumbles and 5 TD's on 82 targets, that's ahead of Danny A and with less targets (also worth noting that he was only 100 yards short of Larry Fitzgerald - a true #1 receiver - and thats with 71 LESS targets) Gibson may have hit his ceiling, but around 700 yards and 5 TDs is ok as a #2 / 3 (Givens had 698, 0 fumbles and 3 TDs on 81 targets and Danny had 666 yards, 2 fumbles and 3 TDs on 101 targets).

So our top 3 receivers posted solid #2-3 receiver numbers IMO, and the NFL is now a business, if two of those receivers are looking at new contracts and one is going after mega $'s then he's going to have to be shown the door... after all... take out their names and look at the stats again:

WR A Tar: 82 Rec: 51 YDS: 691 AV: 13.5 TD: 5 Cost: $$$
WR B Tar: 101 Rec: 63 YDS: 666 AV: 10.6 TD: 3 Cost: $$$$$$$

Its a bit of a no-brainer, and thats without looking at injuries.

And before anything kicks off on my comparison, it's not that i'm comparing Gibson's abilities to Fitzgerald, it's just a comparison, but one I found interesting...
 

RamFan503

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Thanks for this Paulie.

What I saw out of that is that the dude is a totally legit #2 receiver.

The good:

He catches with his hands, he knows where the 1st down marker is, he gets.... drum roll please.... SEPARATION, he's good with the ball in his hands, he gets some extra yards and doesn't fumble, he's strong, he makes some difficult catches in traffic, he goes down and comes back after the ball, Sam seems confident in him.

The bad:

He has a few mental lapses here and there, he apparently doesn't run the route Sam thought he would on occasion, he drops a few he shouldn't, his name isn't Johnson or Fitzgerald.

All in all - I simply don't understand the mentality that says that Gibby is one of our holes to fill. He is THAT GUY you need. And I guarantee you, fans on other boards would love him as a FA pick-up. Keep in mind that he has also had to adapt to a different scheme every year. Hit his ceiling? I doubt it.

Let's just say he has an additional 100-200 yards per season in him. Who the hell doesn't take THAT? 800+ for your #2? Think about it. The whiners #2 had less than 550. Baltimore didn't even have a 1000 yard #1 and #2 was Torrey Smith with 855.

IMO - This is a guy we don't want to lose.
 

shaunpinney

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RamFan503 said:
Thanks for this Paulie.

What I saw out of that is that the dude is a totally legit #2 receiver.

The good:

He catches with his hands, he knows where the 1st down marker is, he gets.... drum roll please.... SEPARATION, he's good with the ball in his hands, he gets some extra yards and doesn't fumble, he's strong, he makes some difficult catches in traffic, he goes down and comes back after the ball, Sam seems confident in him.

The bad:

He has a few mental lapses here and there, he apparently doesn't run the route Sam thought he would on occasion, he drops a few he shouldn't, his name isn't Johnson or Fitzgerald.

All in all - I simply don't understand the mentality that says that Gibby is one of our holes to fill. He is THAT GUY you need. And I guarantee you, fans on other boards would love him as a FA pick-up. Keep in mind that he has also had to adapt to a different scheme every year. Hit his ceiling? I doubt it.

Let's just say he has an additional 100-200 yards per season in him. Who the hell doesn't take THAT? 800+ for your #2? Think about it. The whiners #2 had less than 550. Baltimore didn't even have a 1000 yard #1 and #2 was Torrey Smith with 855.

IMO - This is a guy we don't want to lose.

Well said - especially as there are a number of teams seemingly v.interested - Buffalo and Dolphins being overly keen :s
 

shaunpinney

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I can see Gibson hitting the 800 mark next season with Givens +1000 and Quick in the 600 range - thats if we get to pick up another WR too - Gibson has been in the same boat as Sam learning a new Offence, new routes etc, I think we'll see a massive improvement in the synergy between Sam, Gibson and Kendricks next season.
 

brokeu91

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shaunpinney said:
I can see Gibson hitting the 800 mark next season with Givens +1000 and Quick in the 600 range - thats if we get to pick up another WR too - Gibson has been in the same boat as Sam learning a new Offence, new routes etc, I think we'll see a massive improvement in the synergy between Sam, Gibson and Kendricks next season.
I feel bad for Gibby. He's been the de facto #1, because we never really had any WR who were good enough to take that roll. I don't think he can ever be a #1 and maybe not even a #2 just because of his lack of size and/or speed. But he'd be a darn good slot/possession guy. I think Gibson takes a lot of heat because he was thrust into a roll that does not serve his skill set.

I thought Gibson got better as the season went on, perhaps because both he and Bradford were learning a new offense and then having to get on the same page again. I'm not sure what the Rams interest in resigning him is. I don't think he'll be that expensive, but we may not have that much money under the cap and we would need to fill other holes as well. This is a draft deep at WR so I could foresee the Rams taking their chances in the draft. Whether that's the right thing to do, I'll leave up to the Rams brass, but I'll trust their opinion on this matter.
 

shaunpinney

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brokeu91 said:
shaunpinney said:
I can see Gibson hitting the 800 mark next season with Givens +1000 and Quick in the 600 range - thats if we get to pick up another WR too - Gibson has been in the same boat as Sam learning a new Offence, new routes etc, I think we'll see a massive improvement in the synergy between Sam, Gibson and Kendricks next season.
I feel bad for Gibby. He's been the de facto #1, because we never really had any WR who were good enough to take that roll. I don't think he can ever be a #1 and maybe not even a #2 just because of his lack of size and/or speed. But he'd be a darn good slot/possession guy. I think Gibson takes a lot of heat because he was thrust into a roll that does not serve his skill set.

I thought Gibson got better as the season went on, perhaps because both he and Bradford were learning a new offense and then having to get on the same page again. I'm not sure what the Rams interest in resigning him is. I don't think he'll be that expensive, but we may not have that much money under the cap and we would need to fill other holes as well. This is a draft deep at WR so I could foresee the Rams taking their chances in the draft. Whether that's the right thing to do, I'll leave up to the Rams brass, but I'll trust their opinion on this matter.

I have a feeling that Snead and Fisher, because of the Cap, will try and retain Gibson, let Amendola go, pick up an early WR in the draft (I think Austin - take over PR/KR duties from Amendola) and pick up a tried and an older / tested WR through FA.

I agree it looked like Gibson and Bradford were hitting a groove towards the end of the season....
 

RamBall

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Thanx for the vid. Look forward to more.

The 3 things that stood out to me were that Gibson didn't have as many drops as I woulda thought he did. 2 SB with time can be pin point accurate and 3 SB under pressure seemed to throw away a lot of balls in Gibsons direction.
 

Selassie I

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Gibby's value to the offense is under rated. I think he has reached his ceiling as far as production , but Dudes,,, I'd hate to think of where we would have been without him last year.


One thing that my oldest son and I always yell out when Gibby makes a catch is "Jump Catch". Maybe it's just us, but doesn't it seem like he cannot make a catch unless he's leaves his feet. It almost seems like a hitch in his game in our eyes, but we ain't exactly right in the cabezas. Maybe the jump catches are by design on many occasions , but my son and I always crack up when he leaps up,,, catches the ball,,, and then falls straight to the ground.

I'm sure gonna miss his jump catches ,,, unless we find someone who does it better .