Draft Grade? Incomplete. But, here's my take

[RamFan503]

I'm betting the Everett/Higbee duo will be far, far superior to the Klopfenstein/Byrd match-up, ... by leaps and bounds if you will. :cheers:

Hurts just to think about it.

 

[jrry32]

@So Ram
Cook is a stud. However given his multiple off the field incidents and 3 shoulder surgeries, he probably went right about where he should have.

@jrry32
I can give you height and weight in a Kupp/Rice comparison. But, not speed. They may have run close 40 times (Rice 4.59) at the combine, but Rice has openly admitted that he didn't even know how to run a 40 yard dash. And on the field, Rice wouldn't get caught from behind. I imagine if he went through the professional training programs these kids go through now, his combine 40 time would have been pretty darn good.

And while both put up huge numbers, Rice didn't do it from the slot position and did it at a time where the SWAC was still somewhat known for its defensive backs if anything. Though Alcorn's Leslie Frazier had already graduated, Alcorn's Issac Holt and Grambling's Albert Lewis were studs in their own rights at the time.

It may or may not have been. We don't know. But Rice isn't the only WR with a slow 40 to have succeeded at the NFL level. There are a number of them still playing. You're almost never going to be running 40 yards in a straight-line in the NFL (much less 40 yards without pads on in a straight-line).

As for competition, Kupp burnt some guys who weren't exactly scrubs. He put up 8 catches for 145 yards and 3 TDs against Washington. He beat Marcus Peters (top 10 NFL CB), Kevin King (top 40 pick), and Budda Baker (top 40 pick) in that game. He beat Peters for a 41 yard TD while lined up outside. He beat Baker for a 27 yard TD while lined up outside. Kupp also beat Steven Nelson (Chiefs starting CB and a former 3rd round pick) for a 31 yard TD on a dig route (he caught it, pivoted outside, made Nelson miss, and beat Ryan Murphy to the end-zone). He beat Ryan Murphy for a 48 yard TD on a post route (Murphy was drafted by the Seahawks in the 7th round a couple years ago). The 40 times of all these future NFL draft picks that he beat were: Peters (4.53 40), King (4.43 40), Baker (4.45 40), Nelson (4.49 40), and Murphy (4.48 40).

Kupp has delivered against NFL level talent. And that's not even mentioning his performance at the Senior Bowl.

I'm not trying to claim Kupp is Jerry Rice. But there's as much basis for that comparison as there is for an Austin Pettis comparison. I think Kupp is most similar to Keenan Allen.

 

[Memphis Ram]

@jrry32
Others, may not understand, but I understand that you aren't claiming that Kupp is Jerry Rice anymore than I am claiming that he is Pettis. And I understand the 40 yard dash thing. Shoot. We've watched Amendola get behind faster players. I was just pointing out that Kupp and Rice weren't comparable speedwise.

But, back to Kupp vs. Washington. King and Baker may have been top 40 selections, but both were safeties at the time. Do you have a link to the clip of him beating Peters for the 41 yard TD? I just can't find it. Was Peters in press coverage or backed off?

BTW, I'd say that Allen seemed more explosive to me.

 

[jrry32]

@jrry32
Others, may not understand, but I understand that you aren't claiming that Kupp is Jerry Rice anymore than I am claiming that he is Pettis. And I understand the 40 yard dash thing. Shoot. We've watched Amendola get behind faster players. I was just pointing out that Kupp and Rice weren't comparable speedwise.

But, back to Kupp vs. Washington. King and Baker may have been top 40 selections, but both were safeties at the time. Do you have a link to the clip of him beating Peters for the 41 yard TD? I just can't find it. Was Peters in press coverage or backed off?

BTW, I'd say that Allen seemed more explosive to me.

Yes, I provided the clip in the other thread. It doesn't show Peters at the beginning of the play. Unfortunately, it's been almost 3 years, so I can't say with certainty. My recall is that Peters was pressing, but I'm not 100% sure.

As for King and Baker, safeties or not, nobody has ever doubted their cover skills. Baker is still a safety, but many think he would be one of the best slot CBs in the class if used there.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Yes, I provided the clip in the other thread. It doesn't show Peters at the beginning of the play. Unfortunately, it's been almost 3 years, so I can't say with certainty. My recall is that Peters was pressing, but I'm not 100% sure.

As for King and Baker, safeties or not, nobody has ever doubted their cover skills. Baker is still a safety, but many think he would be one of the best slot CBs in the class if used there.

I haven't watch either for any significant amount of time, but neither have a clean NFL.Com profile coverage wise. And while I'm sure Kupp has also improved, were Baker and King today what they were in 2014? I don't know.

 

[jrry32]

I haven't watch either for any significant amount of time, but neither have a clean NFL.Com profile coverage wise. And while I'm sure Kupp has also improved, were Baker and King today what they were in 2014? I don't know.

I found the answer, Memphis. He was in off man coverage. Here's where it came from:
https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/04/25/nfl-draft-vernon-adams-oregon-tape-highlights
It’s good, because especially for us shorter guys, we need windows. When I’m practicing, I’m throwing the ball before the receivers get into their breaks, because the window is going to be super-tight when you get to the NFL. Not every time you’re going to get a window. On this play, they were in Cover-4 Lock, I rolled out to my right, and the safety was supposed to be on top of my receiver, helping the corner out. I look to my left, knowing I’m going back to the right to Cooper Kupp, and when I checked to my left, getting the safety to check to the left so I can get the one-on-one.

Baker and King? I doubt it. That's three seasons ago (I'm sure they've progressed since then), but as you said, I'm sure Kupp has improved since then too. My main point in bringing that game up is to show Kupp winning against man coverage on the outside when he is facing NFL caliber DBs/athletes.

Here's the play:

Verdict: Peters takes trail position expecting safety help. Kupp freezes him with a double move, and Adams freezes King by looking off Kupp and pump faking.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I found the answer, Memphis. He was in off man coverage. Here's where it came from:
https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/04/25/nfl-draft-vernon-adams-oregon-tape-highlights
It’s good, because especially for us shorter guys, we need windows. When I’m practicing, I’m throwing the ball before the receivers get into their breaks, because the window is going to be super-tight when you get to the NFL. Not every time you’re going to get a window. On this play, they were in Cover-4 Lock, I rolled out to my right, and the safety was supposed to be on top of my receiver, helping the corner out. I look to my left, knowing I’m going back to the right to Cooper Kupp, and when I checked to my left, getting the safety to check to the left so I can get the one-on-one.

Baker and King? I doubt it. That's three seasons ago (I'm sure they've progressed since then), but as you said, I'm sure Kupp has improved since then too. My main point in bringing that game up is to show Kupp winning against man coverage on the outside when he is facing NFL caliber DBs/athletes.

Here's the play:

Verdict: Peters takes trail position expecting safety help. Kupp freezes him with a double move, and Adams freezes King by looking off Kupp and pump faking.

Thanks. Potential NFL caliber DBs is nice. But, I'd feel a whole lot better if I saw him beat a quality CB in press coverage. Oh well. While he'll make some plays on the outside, I still say that Kupp will make his money and/or is best served in the slot in the NFL.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Leaving the Kupp discussion for a moment, I have to admit that after watching some Redskins highlights, I now have a better understanding as to how the Rams couldn't have afforded to take a chance to see if Everett could be had in round three. Looks like he's going to be far too important to the offense (if he pans out). If Austin & Higbee improve enough, he just may prove to be the only potential match up nightmare this team has on the receiving core.

 

[jrry32]

Thanks. Potential NFL caliber DBs is nice. But, I'd feel a whole lot better if I saw him beat a quality CB in press coverage. Oh well. While he'll make some plays on the outside, I still say that Kupp will make his money and/or is best served in the slot in the NFL.

He beat quite a few at the Senior Bowl (along with Budda Baker in that same Washington game). But again, they aren't proven NFL DBs yet.

Kupp's footwork, hand usage, and variance of his releases are truly top notch. I think his skill and physical attributes which will make it difficult to press him.

He might be best served in the slot. I'm not really concerned where he ends up. Let's say he gives us 90-100 catches for 1100 to 1200 yards and 8 to 10 TDs out of the slot, are we going to discount that because he's not playing outside? It's not like we have a proven slot WR on this team that he'd be displacing. Just saying. Slot or not, we need a WR who will produce. Kupp will do that imo, and he'll do it immediately.(which is an added benefit)

There's one move that sticks in my mind (I put the gif of it below). Yes, he's lined up in the slot, but the move he puts on this poor Oregon DB is just plain nasty:

He's buying time to let the other WR clear him, but my god, that CB has no idea what to do. Kupp's slow almost shuffle steps freeze the poor kid, and then, Kupp leaves him in the dust when he accelerates and makes the kid whiff on his punch.

 

[jrry32]

Leaving the Kupp discussion for a moment, I have to admit that after watching some Redskins highlights, I now have a better understanding as to how the Rams couldn't have afforded to take a chance to see if Everett could be had in round three. Looks like he's going to be far too important to the offense (if he pans out). If Austin & Higbee improve enough, he just may prove to be the only potential match up nightmare this team has on the receiving core.

Agreed. Everett, once he develops, will be one of the most important players in this offense.(I guess "if he develops")

McVay used Reed in a very innovative way in Washington. Having a guy like that here would do guys like Gurley and Tavon wonders.

 

[Memphis Ram]

@jrry32

I'm not going to discount yards and touchdowns coming from anyone or anywhere. It's just my opinion that while the slot may be covered, this kid isn't the one to fill a hole on the outside. That's all I'm saying.

 

[ReddingRam]

Willie Totten to Jerry Rice. I remember it like it was yesterday. Rice was a stud however his production was inflated due to the frenetic pace offense Mississippi State ran with Totten at the helm.
What's similar though is both guys were the guy to stop and nobody could.
Level of competition was much different back then as well. Rice played when it was rare for D1-AA guys to make the NFL, because that was before they reduced DIV 1-A scholarships to the 85 it is today.
Kupp destroyed the Pac 10 teams he faced
Comparing him to Pettis? Because they are the same size and speed? That's silly when you throw their production in to the mix.
I have issues with some of the picks, but Kupp aint one of them

By the time Pettis was a Senior, he wasn't even the best WR on his team @ BSU. Pettis' fall off came well before he was drafted.

 

[tomas]

 

[jrry32]

@jrry32

I'm not going to discount yards and touchdowns coming from anyone or anywhere. It's just my opinion that while the slot may be covered, this kid isn't the one to fill a hole on the outside. That's all I'm saying.

He may not be. I can't make any guarantees there. I just feel confident that he'll be productive wherever he ends up. That's something we desperately need. It's the third round. I'm not expecting a true #1 WR; I just want a productive WR.

If he ends up being a guy who dominates outside, even better, I won't be complaining.

 

[kurtfaulk]

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i like how quickly he comes out of his breaks. it's gonna have to be a really bad throw for an interception to occur when he is targeted. i don't think corners are gonna be able to jump his routes because he goes sideways so quickly and doesn't telegraph it either.

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[kurtfaulk]

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goff is gonna love these two wrs. corners draped all over reynolds and he still makes the catch. goodbye mr quick who flinched every time a db came within his personal space. man i'm gonna love seeing this offense grow together. if these guys make plays consistently man, tavon is gonna go off.

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[dieterbrock]

By the time Pettis was a Senior, he wasn't even the best WR on his team @ BSU. Pettis' fall off came well before he was drafted.

Wasn't Titus Young the stud WR on that team? I don't think Pettis was ever the #1

 

[kurtfaulk]

Wasn't Titus Young the stud WR on that team? I don't think Pettis was ever the #1

i remember spags talking about this. every time they put in a bsu tape they notcied that every time bsu needed a clutch play they threw to pettis and he would always make the play. that's why they drafted him.

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[shaunpinney]

I like the Everett, Kupp AND Reynolds selections - they are all players with good hands and are good at route running - that's definitely an improvement in my book..