Does anyone know the truth regarding Butler not playing defense.
- Thread starter Ramstien
- Start date
-
To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.
Boston Ram
Hall of Fame
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2013
- Messages
- 3,560
Why not? That is a week before the SB
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2014
- Messages
- 20,922
- Name
- Peter
http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0752214264583823179-4
Question: After the game, it was mentioned that the players and game-plan were put out there that gave you the best chance to win. A lot of people who follow the team and invest emotionally were curious as to what that was specific to Malcolm Butler, who had played pretty much every play this season and wasn't out there in the Super Bowl. Could you detail that for those people who follow the team and feel an emptiness and would like to understand it better?
Bill Belichick's answer: "I appreciate the question, but it would be a much longer discussion. There are a lot of things that go into that. In the end, the final decision is what I said it was."
Mike Reiss, ESPN Staff Writer
Question: After the game, it was mentioned that the players and game-plan were put out there that gave you the best chance to win. A lot of people who follow the team and invest emotionally were curious as to what that was specific to Malcolm Butler, who had played pretty much every play this season and wasn't out there in the Super Bowl. Could you detail that for those people who follow the team and feel an emptiness and would like to understand it better?
Bill Belichick's answer: "I appreciate the question, but it would be a much longer discussion. There are a lot of things that go into that. In the end, the final decision is what I said it was."
Mike Reiss, ESPN Staff Writer
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2013
- Messages
- 38,830
nighttrain
Legend
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2013
- Messages
- 9,216
Boston Ram
Hall of Fame
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2013
- Messages
- 3,560
nighttrain
Legend
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2013
- Messages
- 9,216
WestCoastRam
Legend
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2014
- Messages
- 5,750
Psycho_X
Legend
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2013
- Messages
- 11,202
Not to derail this conversation but speaking of the Patriots disregarding concussion protocol and doing whatever the fuck they want.... you can't tell me Chung didn't have a concussion the first time he left the game? And the second time they had to stop play a quarter or so later he looked dazed and not all there. Why have I not heard anything about this? The NFL should be investigating this or has there been a good explanation for it that I haven't seen yet?
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2014
- Messages
- 20,922
- Name
- Peter
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-appeared-to-keep-playing-after-a-concussion/
Patrick Chung appeared to keep playing after a concussion
Posted by Michael David Smith on February 5, 2018
Getty Images
Patriots safety Patrick Chung was removed from Super Bowl LII with a concussion. But he appeared to keep playing after he suffered that concussion.
With nine minutes remaining in the third quarter, Chung was in on a tackle on Jay Ajayi and stayed down after everyone else in the pile got up. Ajayi appeared to be signaling to the Patriots’ sideline that Chung had been knocked unconscious, while referee Gene Steratore attended to Chung before the medical staff got on the field.
But after Chung was checked out on the sideline, he returned to the field and played. It wasn’t until three minutes remaining in the fourth quarter, when Chung was in on another tackle and hurt again, that he was ruled out for the game with a concussion.
Chung should have been removed from the game after the collision on the Ajayi run, which a medical spotter should have recognized as a hit that caused a concussion. That he returned to the field is another failure of the NFL’s concussion protocol.
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2014
- Messages
- 20,922
- Name
- Peter
https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/02/05/malcolm-butler-benching-eagles-passing-scheme-super-bowl-52
How Malcolm Butler’s Benching Gave Eagles the Upper Hand
By ANDY BENOIT
In Week 4, the Carolina Panthers came into Foxboro and embarrassed the Patriots defense. You might remember Matt Patricia on the sideline screaming at his secondary, which was blowing coverages the way Mike Tyson did his career earnings. Everyone thought the defense would send New England’s 2017 season down the toilet.
That narrative evaporated as the Patriots gave up the fewest points in the NFL after Week 5, but as it turns out, the flush was indeed initiated in that Week 4 debacle. It just took until Super Bowl 52 for the water to disappear.
“We knew they had problems when you force them to defend stacks and bunches,” said one Eagles offensive assistant after the game. “You look at early in the year, against those stacks, they were losing guys.”
What the Eagles saw, particularly in that Carolina game, was that the Patriots couldn’t figure out how to defend receivers who released together on intersected routes, especially when pre-snap motion was involved. New England righted things in Week 5 (and moving forward) by simplifying into more basic man-to-man principles—and that simplification is what Philadelphia exploited Sunday night.
The Eagles consistently created favorable angles and leverage for their receivers, and at times they even dictated favorable matchups. They got some significant help here from the Patriots, who shockingly benched starting corner Malcolm Butler. Asked when they realized Butler would not be playing, the Eagles assistant said, “After the first series or two. We were like, ‘This guy’s not in the game! They have 23 [Patrick Chung] in there. That’s crazy!’”
Butler’s absence was huge. Not only was Chung, a safety, now essentially the No. 3 corner caught in a tough slot matchup against the shiftier Nelson Agholor, but the usual slot corner, Eric Rowe, was isolated on the outside. Downgrades resonated at two positions.
The plan was “to go after 25 [Rowe],” said the assistant. “We could get Alshon [Jeffery] out there against him. We had Rowe on our team here in Philly, we knew that was a mismatch.”
But did it have to be?
“It was interesting—we thought 24 [Stephon Gilmore] would shadow Jeffery, which he did in the second half, but not in the first half. We liked our matchups across the board regardless.”
Many of Philadelphia’s wideouts said they didn’t even notice Butler’s absence. (“I ain’t really thought about,” said Jeffery. “Doesn’t matter—they’re a faceless opponent.”) Torrey Smith noticed, though. “I’m not going to lie, I probably studied [Butler] . . . ” Smith trailed off. “Well, put it like this: I definitely did not study No. 25 [Rowe]. I watched him a little bit, but I didn’t study him.”
Aside from Butler, Eagles players and coaches, to a man, said that New England did nothing they didn’t expect. Jeffery did not catch a pass in the second half after Gilmore switched over to him, but by then Nick Foles had found his rhythm. Tight end Zach Ertz was a major factor, often benefitting from Philly’s stack and bunch release designs, both as part of those groupings and as the man on the backside of them.
His game-winning, 11-yard touchdown on a slant against safety Devin McCourty was the culmination of the offense dictating the terms of engagement. After seeing New England’s coverage tendencies all game, the Eagles knew they’d get a one-on-one scenario with their Pro Bowl tight end in space against McCourty. And if Ertz wasn’t open, they believe Jeffery, the primary read on the other side, would have converted.
Aided by designs like these, Foles, for the second straight game, played the game of his life against a marquee opponent and on the grandest stage of his career. Just like he did against the Vikings in the NFC title game, Foles extended plays late into the down—both in structure and, at times, out of structure.
The Patriots, with their mediocre pass rush, are easier to extend plays against than are the Vikings. With that and the man coverage getting defeated, Foles had no trouble finding his confidence.
“I think the big thing that helped me was knowing that I didn’t have to be Superman,” he said after the game. “I have amazing teammates, amazing coaches around me.”
The leader of those coaches, Pederson, aided Foles with selective bouts of aggressive play-calling. The second-year head coach outdueled New England’s sixth-year defensive coordinator.
“Obviously, I didn’t do a good enough job,” Patricia said afterwards. “Look, that is a great offense, they are extremely talented. I have been talking about it all week how good they are. They just played really well, and we didn’t get stops.”
Patricia wouldn’t say why Butler sat on defense, other than that it came down to playing certain “packages.” But, given everything Philadelphia did to exploit New England’s man coverages, it was the biggest coaching decision of the game, and one of the biggest in Super Bowl history.
That Butler and the rest of the secondary didn’t know about it until moments before kickoff is mind-blowing. Afterwards, Butler said that the Patriots gave up on him, and that he “could have changed that game.” We’ll never know.
How Malcolm Butler’s Benching Gave Eagles the Upper Hand
By ANDY BENOIT
In Week 4, the Carolina Panthers came into Foxboro and embarrassed the Patriots defense. You might remember Matt Patricia on the sideline screaming at his secondary, which was blowing coverages the way Mike Tyson did his career earnings. Everyone thought the defense would send New England’s 2017 season down the toilet.
That narrative evaporated as the Patriots gave up the fewest points in the NFL after Week 5, but as it turns out, the flush was indeed initiated in that Week 4 debacle. It just took until Super Bowl 52 for the water to disappear.
“We knew they had problems when you force them to defend stacks and bunches,” said one Eagles offensive assistant after the game. “You look at early in the year, against those stacks, they were losing guys.”
What the Eagles saw, particularly in that Carolina game, was that the Patriots couldn’t figure out how to defend receivers who released together on intersected routes, especially when pre-snap motion was involved. New England righted things in Week 5 (and moving forward) by simplifying into more basic man-to-man principles—and that simplification is what Philadelphia exploited Sunday night.
The Eagles consistently created favorable angles and leverage for their receivers, and at times they even dictated favorable matchups. They got some significant help here from the Patriots, who shockingly benched starting corner Malcolm Butler. Asked when they realized Butler would not be playing, the Eagles assistant said, “After the first series or two. We were like, ‘This guy’s not in the game! They have 23 [Patrick Chung] in there. That’s crazy!’”
Butler’s absence was huge. Not only was Chung, a safety, now essentially the No. 3 corner caught in a tough slot matchup against the shiftier Nelson Agholor, but the usual slot corner, Eric Rowe, was isolated on the outside. Downgrades resonated at two positions.
The plan was “to go after 25 [Rowe],” said the assistant. “We could get Alshon [Jeffery] out there against him. We had Rowe on our team here in Philly, we knew that was a mismatch.”
But did it have to be?
“It was interesting—we thought 24 [Stephon Gilmore] would shadow Jeffery, which he did in the second half, but not in the first half. We liked our matchups across the board regardless.”
Many of Philadelphia’s wideouts said they didn’t even notice Butler’s absence. (“I ain’t really thought about,” said Jeffery. “Doesn’t matter—they’re a faceless opponent.”) Torrey Smith noticed, though. “I’m not going to lie, I probably studied [Butler] . . . ” Smith trailed off. “Well, put it like this: I definitely did not study No. 25 [Rowe]. I watched him a little bit, but I didn’t study him.”
Aside from Butler, Eagles players and coaches, to a man, said that New England did nothing they didn’t expect. Jeffery did not catch a pass in the second half after Gilmore switched over to him, but by then Nick Foles had found his rhythm. Tight end Zach Ertz was a major factor, often benefitting from Philly’s stack and bunch release designs, both as part of those groupings and as the man on the backside of them.
His game-winning, 11-yard touchdown on a slant against safety Devin McCourty was the culmination of the offense dictating the terms of engagement. After seeing New England’s coverage tendencies all game, the Eagles knew they’d get a one-on-one scenario with their Pro Bowl tight end in space against McCourty. And if Ertz wasn’t open, they believe Jeffery, the primary read on the other side, would have converted.
Aided by designs like these, Foles, for the second straight game, played the game of his life against a marquee opponent and on the grandest stage of his career. Just like he did against the Vikings in the NFC title game, Foles extended plays late into the down—both in structure and, at times, out of structure.
The Patriots, with their mediocre pass rush, are easier to extend plays against than are the Vikings. With that and the man coverage getting defeated, Foles had no trouble finding his confidence.
“I think the big thing that helped me was knowing that I didn’t have to be Superman,” he said after the game. “I have amazing teammates, amazing coaches around me.”
The leader of those coaches, Pederson, aided Foles with selective bouts of aggressive play-calling. The second-year head coach outdueled New England’s sixth-year defensive coordinator.
“Obviously, I didn’t do a good enough job,” Patricia said afterwards. “Look, that is a great offense, they are extremely talented. I have been talking about it all week how good they are. They just played really well, and we didn’t get stops.”
Patricia wouldn’t say why Butler sat on defense, other than that it came down to playing certain “packages.” But, given everything Philadelphia did to exploit New England’s man coverages, it was the biggest coaching decision of the game, and one of the biggest in Super Bowl history.
That Butler and the rest of the secondary didn’t know about it until moments before kickoff is mind-blowing. Afterwards, Butler said that the Patriots gave up on him, and that he “could have changed that game.” We’ll never know.
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2013
- Messages
- 8,331
- Name
- Erik
Yes, and they won't ever discuss the real reasons ... the zebras had a terrible game. Now, statistically, it would appear that they did their job, as the Patriots were penalized only once while the Eagles were flagged for six. But that doesn't tell the whole story. For example, the officials badly failed on the late strip-sack of Brady, failing to invent a "defensive holding" or "illegal contact" penalty that would have overturned the play and given the Patriots a first down. Instead, God forbid, they let the play stand. What were they thinking? In short, there were a number of opportunities for the officials to throw a game-changing flag in the Patriots favor, and they simply failed to do their duty. I don't know if it was a lack of film study, poor game planning, or what, but the officials really let the Patriots down last night. If I was a Patriots fan, I'd be furious.
Psycho_X
Legend
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2013
- Messages
- 11,202
So, Chung was knocked out and instead of Belichek simply saying "ok, I've made my point and satisfied my power move ego so now that Chung is injured we should get Butler into the game now" they ignored the concussion completely and spat at the new protocol rules and let Chung go back out there only to be knocked out again. Seems like they had the perfect solution to not letting Chung back on the field. Idk, maybe I'm making too much out of this but seems like the NFL needs to handle this blatant disrespect of the rules.
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2011
- Messages
- 15,988
Someone let the cat out of the bag in the comments section of this tweet.
Butler was benched because he refused to kiss Brady on the lips in pre game.
.
A.J. Hicks
Hall of Fame
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
- Messages
- 2,564
- Name
- zoomy
Collinsworth is going to smell like Brady's and Bellichek's assholes for the rest of his life as far as I'm concerned. He had his head shoved so far up there! So far up that patriot ass!
My wife was really annoyed by how much he was worshipping the patriots.
majrleaged
Hall of Fame
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2016
- Messages
- 3,884
I think the NFL was sensitive to the patriots get all the calls. That is why the let the TD by ertz and by # 30 stand. I mean both those calls In the past are ruled no catch.Yes, and they won't ever discuss the real reasons ... the zebras had a terrible game. Now, statistically, it would appear that they did their job, as the Patriots were penalized only once while the Eagles were flagged for six. But that doesn't tell the whole story. For example, the officials badly failed on the late strip-sack of Brady, failing to invent a "defensive holding" or "illegal contact" penalty that would have overturned the play and given the Patriots a first down. Instead, God forbid, they let the play stand. What were they thinking? In short, there were a number of opportunities for the officials to throw a game-changing flag in the Patriots favor, and they simply failed to do their duty. I don't know if it was a lack of film study, poor game planning, or what, but the officials really let the Patriots down last night. If I was a Patriots fan, I'd be furious.
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2013
- Messages
- 8,331
- Name
- Erik
I think the officials actually got the calls right in both of those cases.
On the Ertz TD, he clearly had control and took two steps, hence the reason they ruled him as a runner - i.e. the catch had been completed. As such, the nanosecond the ball breaks the plane of the goal line, the play is over and it's a TD. Thus, the part where the ball bounced up occurred after the play was over.
On the other one, it was a little harder to see when he lost control, but he did appear to get two feet down before his third step touched the line. But only then could you see that he might not have full control, but it's inconclusive whether he had full control when his second foot gets down. If he does have control when the second foot gets down, it's a TD right there and the play is over. Since the evidence was inconclusive, the ruling on the field stands.
That being said, without all the stuff being written about the Patriots getting the calls (and they did only have one flag vs. six for the Eagles), I think the officials were going to make damn sure before they overruled anything (also known as "what they are supposed to do) rather than finding a reason to overrule in the Patriots favor, as they did multiple times in the regular season.
Edit: One other thing - given how these calls would have just about automatically gone the Patriots way in the regular season, it must really chap their butts that they didn't get these calls in the Super Bowl. Gotta love it!
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 26, 2013
- Messages
- 11,962
- Name
- River
Malcolm Butler posts statement: 'I would never do anything to hurt my team's chances of winning'
Shalise Manza Young,Shutdown Corner 1 hour 41 minutes ago.
Peter Schrager: It's crazy to me that Bill Belichick would bench Malcolm Butler all game and penalize the entire team
We still have no idea why he did didn’t play in Super Bowl LII, but New England Patriots cornerback Malcolm Butler has released a statement on Twitter and Instagram, writing that he never took part in any of the “ridiculous” activities suggested, leading to his being benched.
“I want to thank Mr. [Robert] Kraft, the Kraft family, and my coaches for giving me an opportunity to play for one of the most successful organizations in sports,” Butler began. “I also thank my teammates, as we have won a lot of games together, and all I know is winning! I have always respected everyone at the New England Patriots organization, from Custodians, staff and coach [Bill] Belichick.
“In each of my Four years we have achieved Conference Championships or Super Bowl victories since I arrived in New England. All of this would not be possible without thanking some of the best fans in the world who have supported me from day one and, always let me know how much they appreciated me here in New England.
“During my four year career with (the) Patriots I have always given it everything I have to play at a high level, and would never do anything to hurt my team’s chances of winning a game, including this year’s Super Bowl where I visited with my family every night. During Super Bowl week I never attended any concert, missed curfew, or participated in any of the ridiculous activities being reported. They are not only false, but hurtful, to me and my family.
New England Patriots cornerback Malcolm Butler released a statement on Tuesday to give his side of things. (AP)
“Although I wish I could have contributed more to help my team win, I have to get ready for the next opportunity. Moving forward I will do what I have always done to work hard, and prepare for next season to be the best I can be on and off the field.
“Finally, I want to apologize to any offended by language reported immediately after the game during a very emotional time. It was out of character for me and my character, and heart with God’s help is what got me to where I am today. I can’t wait for the 2018 season to get here. I will be ready!”
In the aftermath of the game, ESPN reporter Mike Reiss spoke with Butler, who said, “They gave up on me. [Expletive]. It is what it is.”
There have been various rumors and reports over the past couple of days about what led to Butler’s being in uniform but playing just one special-teams snap.
A league source who is close to Butler said on Sunday night that Butler’s benching had nothing to do with discipline or the cornerback’s illness, which led to him visiting a Massachusetts hospital before the Patriots left for Minneapolis. Butler was not well enough to travel with the team on Jan. 29, and was flown by himself a day later.
Had Butler run afoul of team rules, Belichick could have sat Butler for a series – as he did with Wes Welker in the 2010 playoffs – or made Butler inactive had the infraction been more serious.
On Tuesday, the same league source once again affirmed that Butler had not done anything wrong in the days leading up to the game; the source believes the decision to bench the 27-year-old was personal because Butler is headed to free agency.
As his statement indicates, Butler does not plan on returning to the Patriots.
Quarterback Tom Brady commented under Butler’s post on Instagram, writing, “Love you Malcolm. You are an incredible player and teammate and friend. Always!!!!!!”
Butler played over 97 percent of the Patriots’ defensive snaps during the regular season, most on the team, and played every defensive snap of the team’s first two playoff games, against Tennessee and Jacksonville. After the Super Bowl, coach Bill Belichick said it was “strictly football” that led to Butler’s benching.
In 2014, the then-undrafted rookie was thrust into the spotlight when he made one of the biggest plays in Super Bowl history, making a goal-line interception of the Seahawks’ Russell Wilson to seal Super Bowl XLIX for New England, the franchise’s fourth title.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/malcol...ing-hurt-teams-chances-winning-214635825.html
Shalise Manza Young,Shutdown Corner 1 hour 41 minutes ago.Peter Schrager: It's crazy to me that Bill Belichick would bench Malcolm Butler all game and penalize the entire team
We still have no idea why he did didn’t play in Super Bowl LII, but New England Patriots cornerback Malcolm Butler has released a statement on Twitter and Instagram, writing that he never took part in any of the “ridiculous” activities suggested, leading to his being benched.
“I want to thank Mr. [Robert] Kraft, the Kraft family, and my coaches for giving me an opportunity to play for one of the most successful organizations in sports,” Butler began. “I also thank my teammates, as we have won a lot of games together, and all I know is winning! I have always respected everyone at the New England Patriots organization, from Custodians, staff and coach [Bill] Belichick.
“In each of my Four years we have achieved Conference Championships or Super Bowl victories since I arrived in New England. All of this would not be possible without thanking some of the best fans in the world who have supported me from day one and, always let me know how much they appreciated me here in New England.
“During my four year career with (the) Patriots I have always given it everything I have to play at a high level, and would never do anything to hurt my team’s chances of winning a game, including this year’s Super Bowl where I visited with my family every night. During Super Bowl week I never attended any concert, missed curfew, or participated in any of the ridiculous activities being reported. They are not only false, but hurtful, to me and my family.
New England Patriots cornerback Malcolm Butler released a statement on Tuesday to give his side of things. (AP)
“Although I wish I could have contributed more to help my team win, I have to get ready for the next opportunity. Moving forward I will do what I have always done to work hard, and prepare for next season to be the best I can be on and off the field.
“Finally, I want to apologize to any offended by language reported immediately after the game during a very emotional time. It was out of character for me and my character, and heart with God’s help is what got me to where I am today. I can’t wait for the 2018 season to get here. I will be ready!”
In the aftermath of the game, ESPN reporter Mike Reiss spoke with Butler, who said, “They gave up on me. [Expletive]. It is what it is.”
There have been various rumors and reports over the past couple of days about what led to Butler’s being in uniform but playing just one special-teams snap.
A league source who is close to Butler said on Sunday night that Butler’s benching had nothing to do with discipline or the cornerback’s illness, which led to him visiting a Massachusetts hospital before the Patriots left for Minneapolis. Butler was not well enough to travel with the team on Jan. 29, and was flown by himself a day later.
Had Butler run afoul of team rules, Belichick could have sat Butler for a series – as he did with Wes Welker in the 2010 playoffs – or made Butler inactive had the infraction been more serious.
On Tuesday, the same league source once again affirmed that Butler had not done anything wrong in the days leading up to the game; the source believes the decision to bench the 27-year-old was personal because Butler is headed to free agency.
As his statement indicates, Butler does not plan on returning to the Patriots.
Quarterback Tom Brady commented under Butler’s post on Instagram, writing, “Love you Malcolm. You are an incredible player and teammate and friend. Always!!!!!!”
Butler played over 97 percent of the Patriots’ defensive snaps during the regular season, most on the team, and played every defensive snap of the team’s first two playoff games, against Tennessee and Jacksonville. After the Super Bowl, coach Bill Belichick said it was “strictly football” that led to Butler’s benching.
In 2014, the then-undrafted rookie was thrust into the spotlight when he made one of the biggest plays in Super Bowl history, making a goal-line interception of the Seahawks’ Russell Wilson to seal Super Bowl XLIX for New England, the franchise’s fourth title.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/malcol...ing-hurt-teams-chances-winning-214635825.html