Concealed Carry

[Elmgrovegnome]

The worry is usually that more guns means more confusion. So someone who has a firearm but inadequate training (because getting a permit really isn't that hard) to handle an active shooter, they could miss and hit an innocent person instead. Or if there is multiple people with firearms, people are likely to get confused in the chaos and start engaging each other not knowing who the shooter is. They are legitimate concerns to these types of situations, which is why I always implore those who are sincere about getting their permit to take the training seriously, continue with it afterwards, and be really thoughtful about when they pull that weapon. People who have the idea to defend themselves or their family and only use it as a last resort are smart and ready to carry. People who think they're going to be a hero and save the day in some worst case scenario aren't in the right frame of mind and probably shouldn't get a permit.

Many good points here. The gov't really screwed the common man with forcing ammo prices to soar. I used to practice regularly and I don't anymore because the cost of the ammo is outrageous. It is finally coming down a bit but still not what it was. I don't feel as comfortable as I used to. I have a fingerprint coded pistol safe next to my bed and one night the alarm went off and I fumbled opening the safe and then took the gun out and realized that it was not such a familiar feeling, like it used to be brandishing a weapon. I used to do IDPA shoots and set up scenarios on my own range and such. Anyway I didn't like the feeling.

Add to it the chance of gunfire in the home with kids present and it is even worse. I quickly realized that we needed a plan, that we hadn't had. When the alarm goes off the kids need to move out of the line of fire and down into a safe corner of their room or into the room with my wife.

My main hope is that the alarm would be enough to scare off an intruder. I had an intruder a year and a half ago at 2 am and my guns were in the safe in the basement. But the dog scared the guy off. He was after drugs. It took the cops over 45 minutes to get to my house. I don't want to shoot anyone but I will if I have to. But you need a plan for in the house and you need to practice scenarios on a range because when that moment hits you don't have time to think. You need to react, in the safest possible manor. Inexperience is a formula for disaster.

BTW that guy is still roaming around free on bail. The court system sucks. They nabbed him in 4 days because I figured out who it was pretty quickly. They had all the evidence of my stuff in his car and other peoples stuff in the neighborhood. Yet he goes free on bail with a prior history of burglary and 5 years served on the state level. Unbelievable! So continuance after continuance and plea change after plea change and here we are hoping he goes to trial for the next term......just like every other term since the event.

 

[Angry Ram]

Oh, you don't have to hit anything. The muzzle flash and shock and awe of the blast will send most punk ass thugs shaggin ass for cover. That's the real self defense of a handgun in most situations. Kinda like a pump shot gun in your home, the sound of the rack is usually enough. Of course, with my Keltec PMR 30, I can polka dot a punk in less than a minute. I wouldn't but I could. Most people that are going to take the time to get a concealed carry permit usually take the time to go to a firing range and get pretty comfortable with their weapon of choice. There's no simulation for getting fired at but your odds are a hell of lot better with a gun in your corner versus the fetal position. If you add more guns in the "good guys" hands, more good things happen to good people and more bad things happen to bad people. That's a good thing for the good guys of course.

Practicing under controlled settings, with a set target, usually stationary. If something (God forbid) happens again like Chattanooga with chaos all around, I doubt anyone is just gonna whip it out and scare the baddie.

 

[Ramhusker]

Practicing under controlled settings, with a set target, usually stationary. If something (God forbid) happens again like Chattanooga with chaos all around, I doubt anyone is just gonna whip it out and scare the baddie.

Sure, some times, people will be facing a trained killer but most of the time it'll be a coward that's only bold when they are running with the pack or has a marked advantage. I like options in my pocket.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Practicing under controlled settings, with a set target, usually stationary. If something (God forbid) happens again like Chattanooga with chaos all around, I doubt anyone is just gonna whip it out and scare the baddie.

The first time I tried practicing scenarios I was amazed at how different it was. I highly recommend trying it for anyone that plans on carrying. I liken it to fighting. If you never did it, or practiced it, the first time around can really put you out of sorts.

Once you create a set up, with a wall or desk or such, especially with someone setting parameters, like how many perps and where and such, then adds in a time frame, it becomes quite an adrenaline rush. It seems real and is so much better at preparing you for real life situations.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Word is one of the killed Marines was armed, and possibly returned fire, and a Navy officer did return fire on the shooter. It's unknown if they hit the shooter any, but it's a reminder that while it's better to have a firearm and not need one than to need one and not have one, having one doesn't automatically mean you're safe, and even trained shooters don't hit 100% of what they aim at.

 

[hotanez]

I'm not gonna sit here and say here's why you shouldn't get a concealed carry. It's perfectly alright for you to do that.

What bothers me is this will somehow help in these situations.

You mean to tell me that in any chaotic situation you will have the wherewithal to pull out a weapon and fire accurately at the criminal? I can't imagine anyone doing that, except military and police who go through intense training.

So many times, I hear "this will protect ourselves!" or "self defense FTW!!!" Yet the U.S. still has one of the highest gun related deaths in the country. I don't think gun control or any other political BS will solve anything now, b/c there are already too many guns circulating right now. What happens if you add more?

That's just all MO tho. I don't buy into the "self defense" logic in purchasing a weapon. Again, you are perfectly in your right to get a permit if you want.

Just the same I don't buy into your reasoning that one doesn't have the ability to defend themselves. It happens all the time in this country, citizens defending themselves and their loved ones. I do respect your opinion and you have the right to not arm yourself but I also have the right to arm myself and I do.

 

[hotanez]

I've been meaning to go get my Concealed Carry permit for a long time now and the Marines losing their lives in Chattanooga is the wake up call for me. I'm going next week and get it done. Who here has a permit? How much does it cost where you live?

RIP Marines

Very good Ramhusker I'm glad your getting your CCP. I feel much safer knowing law abiding citizens are protecting themselves and the public.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Word is one of the killed Marines was armed, and possibly returned fire, and a Navy officer did return fire on the shooter. It's unknown if they hit the shooter any, but it's a reminder that while it's better to have a firearm and not need one than to need one and not have one, having one doesn't automatically mean you're safe, and even trained shooters don't hit 100% of what they aim at.

Yeah. It is one thing to shoot standing targets at a range. Scenarios ramp it up a bit more and it is harder to shoot accurately. Then being in the real situation? That must be insanely intense and difficult to concentrate and hard to be accurate.

 

[Angry Ram]

Just the same I don't buy into your reasoning that one doesn't have the ability to defend themselves. It happens all the time in this country, citizens defending themselves and their loved ones. I do respect your opinion and you have the right to not arm yourself but I also have the right to arm myself and I do.

Hang on, I didn't say one doesn't have the ability to defend themselves.

I said that it's hard for me to believe that logic when the U.S. has one of the highest gun related deaths (in which innocent pay the price) in the world despite "self defense."

Especially in those "fight or flight" response scenarios. Humans are cowards by nature, they tend to run away. I can't see the average guy have the mental aptitude to stop a chaotic situation.

 

[hotanez]

Hang on, I didn't say one doesn't have the ability to defend themselves.

I said that it's hard for me to believe that logic when the U.S. has one of the highest gun related deaths (in which innocent pay the price) in the world despite "self defense."

Especially in those "fight or flight" response scenarios. Humans are cowards by nature, they tend to run away. I can't see the average guy have the mental aptitude to stop a chaotic situation.

Unfortunately we are talking about what you think or believe from statistics that cloud people's judgment on the subject. It's hard for me to take anything serious about so called US gun related deaths when they include suicides as innocent casualties. The part of using the word "coward" is also stange, do you consider yourself a coward? I'm guessing it's probably better just to say we disagree on this subject.

 

[Angry Ram]

Unfortunately we are talking about what you think or believe from statistics that cloud people's judgment on the subject. It's hard for me to take anything serious about so called US gun related deaths when they include suicides as innocent casualties. The part of using the word "coward" is also stange, do you consider yourself a coward? I'm guessing it's probably better just to say we disagree on this subject.

My judgement is pretty clear. More guns leads to more casualties. Other countries with stricter laws reflect the opposite. How come the numbers in countries like the UK are so low? Is everyone "defending themselves"? No, they just don't have the access, and that makes it harder for the bad guys too. I would love it if this country had guys that "defended themselves" and the gun deaths by the bad guys decrease b/c of said defense...but it simply hasn't.

But again tho, we are at a point where if tomorrow we get the strictest control in the world, it would be hard to lower that number.

RE calling humans cowards is by natural instinct. When something negative out of nowhere we, as a species, tend to run away. Why do you think we flinch when someone pretends to hit you (even if it's playful) or that feeling when you get startled?

But yeah, we'll agree to disagree.

 

[-X-]

I won't get a gun either. Just not a fan.
Plus, I would literally kill hundreds of people, so...

You're welcome America.

 

[Faceplant]

I won't get a gun either. Just not a fan.
Plus, I would literally kill hundreds of people, so...

You're welcome America.

Much appreciated....and same goes for me. I have friends that are big into guns, and I have fired hand guns and shotguns with them. It always makes me feel uneasy. The one time I really enjoyed shooting was at a skeet shooting competition. It was my first time firing a shotgun and somehow I won the whole thing (100+ people entered)!! If anything, that should have been the most unnerving experience since there were literally 100 other people that I didn't know with guns in their hands all day, haha.

 

[hotanez]

I won't get a gun either. Just not a fan.
Plus, I would literally kill hundreds of people, so...

You're welcome America.

Yes you shouldn't get a gun lol

 

[hotanez]

My judgement is pretty clear. More guns leads to more casualties. Other countries with stricter laws reflect the opposite. How come the numbers in countries like the UK are so low? Is everyone "defending themselves"? No, they just don't have the access, and that makes it harder for the bad guys too. I would love it if this country had guys that "defended themselves" and the gun deaths by the bad guys decrease b/c of said defense...but it simply hasn't.

But again tho, we are at a point where if tomorrow we get the strictest control in the world, it would be hard to lower that number.

RE calling humans cowards is by natural instinct. When something negative out of nowhere we, as a species, tend to run away. Why do you think we flinch when someone pretends to hit you (even if it's playful) or that feeling when you get startled?

But yeah, we'll agree to disagree.

If you have time Angryram please read the file I attached to this post. It's a Harvard study on gun control.

 

[bluecoconuts]

I won't get a gun either. Just not a fan.
Plus, I would literally kill hundreds of people, so...

You're welcome America.

Mehhhh, I think I could take you...:double:

 

[-X-]

Mehhhh, I think I could take you...:double:

Lucky for you, you're not on my list.

Yet.

 

[Ramhusker]

Much appreciated....and same goes for me. I have friends that are big into guns, and I have fired hand guns and shotguns with them. It always makes me feel uneasy. The one time I really enjoyed shooting was at a skeet shooting competition. It was my first time firing a shotgun and somehow I won the whole thing (100+ people entered)!! If anything, that should have been the most unnerving experience since there were literally 100 other people that I didn't know with guns in their hands all day, haha.

And nobody got shot? Hmmm

 

[Angry Ram]

If you have time Angryram please read the file I attached to this post. It's a Harvard study on gun control.

That is an interesting article and makes good arguments. But...

Why is the U.S. still so damn high in gun related crime? Why is it the 1st country in homicides NOT in Central/South America and Africa? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate#References

There's arguments to both sides, and we could go on for days. But I don't really feel like doing that. Again, I'm not advocating a ban of firearms, or control, or not wanting good people to own them.

I just believe that despite the self defense logic, we still have high rates and humans in chaotic situations won't magically stop just b/c they have a piece of paper that say they can carry.

 

[RamzFanz]

Concealed carry in Missouri costs about $150-$200 for the mandatory class. The permit itself is $25. And is good for 5 years.

As a 17 year old marine private I guarded bases with M16s so I'm not sure how a pistol would be more risky. I would suggest they simply allow service people to carry if they comply with local laws on their own time and purchase their own weapons. All costs solved.

People use self defense effectively all day every day, they just don't compile stats. CC people are the safest gun group according to my swat instructor, safer than cops, security, hunters, every armed group. They are also more likely to hit their target than everyone but cops.

Criminals, on the other hand, rarely have training and are horrible shots. I believe they hit their targets 12% of the time?

Personally, I would ban all handguns and make a crime with a handgun 10 years mandatory with no pleas allowed. I carry because it's so easy for criminals to get a gun and I'm on their turf a lot. I would be fine with less than leathal.

The part we can't avoid is 3D printers will soon be very common and people will print their own guns.