Choose, elite offense or defense

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jrry32

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I think the elite defense is more valuable, but you generally need a great QB to have an elite offense, so I'm choosing elite offense because of what that would mean for Goff.
 

jrry32

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We're no longer a dome team.
 

SteezyEndo

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50/50....I think both could benefit from one another. Defense can intimidate the opposition on offense, and offense could intimidate the opposition on defense. It would be a blessing to show from both ends.
 

Ram65

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Finally, here is the real question...assume you win the Super Bowl as a Ram fan in 2019. Would you want the lasting memory of the team to be its offense or its defense?

Growing up a Rams fans in the era that you witnessed my first thought is defense. I'm struggle with the choice. The 1999 Rams offense made me feel great while watching it. It was only a matter of time before they would score. Not much time that is. I'll go offense but, I always give credit to an under rated 1999 Rams defense.


http://www.espn.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/12523/rams-1999-defense-also-worthy-of-honor
Rams' 1999 defense also worthy of respect
Oct 12, 2014

  • Nick WagonerESPN Staff Writer

  • EARTH CITY, Mo. -- Long before the St. Louis Rams traded for running back Marshall Faulk or hired Mike Martz to run the offense or any of the other moves they made that eventually turned the offense into what is now known as the "Greatest Show on Turf," the Rams' offense was perpetually stuck in the mud. Even in practice.

That's because even as the Rams struggled to win games, they actually had the defensive pieces in place to become a good team if only the offense could keep them off the field long enough to come up for air.

"I just don’t think they talk about our defense enough," receiver Torry Holt said. "We were the No. 1 offense in the National Football League, but our defense was top five in the NFL. But they were so overshadowed by what we were doing offensively and the speed and the points that we were generating, the energy that we created. But I think our defense just didn’t get talked about enough and still doesn’t get talked about enough.

The Rams and Dick Vermeil won the Super Bowl thanks in part to an under-the-radar defense that dominated in the shadow of an explosive offense. Scott Rovak/USA TODAY Sports
"Some would say there wasn’t a lot of household names. I beg to differ. Todd Lyght, Kevin Carter, Mike Jones, D’Marco Farr, Ray Agnew, Keith Lyle, the list goes on and on of guys that were more than able to start on any team in the National Football League. They played together as a cohesive unit all the time for a long period of time for 16 weeks. They created a lot of turnovers and gave us as an offense the opportunity to get the ball back and generate more points."

As the Rams offense burst on to the scene in 1999, the defense made a similar move to rank near the top of the league in most categories. Though the two were simultaneously impressing on a weekly basis, the defense was quietly flying under the radar by offering big plays and shutting down opponents in blowout victories.

Although it was easy to point to the large leads the offense often staked the defense to as the reason for success, such leads were also a product of a defense capable of getting enough early stops for the points to accumulate. And in many cases, the defense also provided the points.

That season, the Rams were fourth in the NFL in points allowed per game (15.1), first in run defense (74.3 yards per game) and tied for the league lead with 57 sacks. They also finished sixth in takeaways with 36 and scored eight defensive touchdowns.

Defensive end Carter posted a then-franchise record with 17 sacks on his way to a Pro Bowl berth. Defensive tackle Farr and cornerback Lyght joined Carter in Hawaii. It was a group that also featured the young versions of future difference-makers London Fletcher and Leonard Little.

"We all did our job," Farr said. "The Greatest Show on Turf thing where it became just about the offense, that’s something else from outside this room. We all worked together. When we stopped them and got the ball back, we knew we were going to score. It was a personal challenge. They’d be up watching us play defense and we’d be up watching them play offense. If you don’t do it, we’re going to do it. If you have a whole group like that, the next thing you know you are in the Super Bowl."

In no place was that more evident than on the practice fields at Rams Park. For the previous two seasons under coach Dick Vermeil, the Rams' defense would regularly dominate the proceedings in practice. Receiver Isaac Bruce remembers the helpless feeling of playing on an offense that couldn't even score in practice let alone in games.

But after the offseason additions of guys like Faulk, Martz, Holt, Adam Timmerman and others, it didn't take long for the defense to realize that things were about to change.

"It’s not like you don’t have much respect for the guys you play with, you do," Farr said. "They’re your teammates, you love them, but we were facing a whole lot better on game day than we were getting in practice. So practice got boring some of those years. We could shut those guys down anytime we needed to, so how were we getting better? Then all of a sudden it switched where we’re on our heels, we’re backing up and you look up and start to recognize signals and demeanor. Then it became something different and they started to compete with us and beat us."

In many ways, the practices became tougher than the games for the defense. Where Farr could once have his way with any nondescript guard on the roster, players like Timmerman and Tom Nutten would offer much more resistance. Tales of left tackle Orlando Pace's dominance of end Grant Wistrom in practice still get talked about anytime an offensive tackle beats an end consistently in pass-rush drills. But Pace's excellence only made things easier for Wistrom.

Though the defense still doesn't get the credit it might deserve 15 years later, there is no denying the Rams wouldn't have even gone to Super Bowl XXXIV, let alone win it, without a strong defensive performance. When the offense finally struggled against Tampa Bay's stout defense in the NFC Championship Game, it was the Rams' defense that rose to the occasion.

The Rams held Tampa Bay to 203 total yards and came up with two turnovers, five sacks and a safety in leading St. Louis to an 11-6 victory.

"We got into a dogfight," Farr said. "It made me respect Tampa more on defense, because if you can slow those guys down, then you can play. But we were more than capable of going into a dogfight with anybody. That type of game is what that defense was used to before the offense took off. It was nothing new to us. It was 'OK, that’s what type of game this is? Great.' We’d been there before. So we were trained for it."

They became champions because of it.
 

Florida_Ram

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Getting tired of looking at Hekkers Great Leg are we!?! What do you prefer!?!
health-beauty-jpg.20460


View attachment 20459 View attachment 20460 View attachment 20461

That was a funny ass post! @DaveFan'51
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Mojo Ram

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I'm a defense guy. In every sport no matter what decade it is or what the current trend says. The better defensive teams have trophies.
 

Mojo Ram

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I think a more interesting question is #1 offense/defense and #10 offense/defense.
 

Loyal

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That does further define the spirit of my question. Bravo.
Yes, I agree with Mojo Ram...because in this NFL, it's almost impossible for a team to reach the top in both offense and defense, simultaneously (One will be dominant and the other just good). In addition, if one or the other is dominant, it helps make the other look better than it is.


1) Dominant offense means that a team scores a lot of points, which makes the opponent one-dimensional. If so, the defensive knows they can guard against the pass and almost forget the run, and the pass rushers can focus on sacking the QB.

2) Dominant defense means the opponent has fewer offensive opportunities because they are reduced to few points caused by 3 and out possessions. The less talented offense gets more opportunities to score, which they wouldn't have had if the defense couldn't get the opponents offense off the field.


Seems to me the #1 Offense would have a more destructive effect on the opponent than a #1 Defense. So I choose the GSOG (Greatest Show on Grass!) :rockon:
 

shaunpinney

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Interesting OP @leoram - I love me some defence, but give me an elite O and good D any day of the week. We've been blessed by having an (In my mind) a top D unit for a number of years, but because our O has been scraping the bottom of the NFL barrel, our D becomes physically tired far too quickly. So get yourself a decent O on the field and your 'GOOD' D does the job.

You can't win games unless you score more points than your opponent. It's a simple game really.

As @ArkyRamsFan mentioned, you only need to see what Brady did in the latter part of the SB. A 'GODD' O wouldn't have been able to win that game. So, as @jrry32 said, lets get an Elite QB to drive the O, we can spot the D some more time on the sidelines, keep the D fresh as @KNUCKLEHEAD mentioned.

I won't forget what Janoris Jenkins said about being on the Giants team. I'm paraphrasing here but it was something like, "It's nice to have an offense, it's taken the pressure off me to not try and create something." He was commenting on the big risky plays he did as a Ram to try and create those pick 6's. I think an elite O, improves your D
 

tempests

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I'd be good with either, but I favor an elite defense over an elite offense. More assurance of reliability and more fun to watch, personally.

A good D can help an O and vice versa, but there are no guarantees. We had the no 1 offense from 1999-2001, but the performance of the defense was wildly uneven.

We have had a good and sometimes very good D under Fisher/Williams, but we never reached elite status with them, and it wasn't because of our O, IMO. We don't force enough turnovers, there were always a couple of games a year in which Williams was thoroughly outcoached, and since Chris Long went into decline and Robert Quinn got hurt our pass rush hasn't been good enough.
 

dieterbrock

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New England was #1 in defense last year, and Denver was #4. I'd rather have Denver's defense.
Atlanta, New Orleans, New England, Green Bay and Dallas were the top 5 offense, I'd gladly take the results from any of them.
When people talk of great defense winning SB, many bring up the 85 Bears. I'd take that as well along with the #2 scoring offense in the league too that year.
So for me, give me top 5 in both categories, doesn't matter which is which
 

tempests

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I won't forget what Janoris Jenkins said about being on the Giants team. I'm paraphrasing here but it was something like, "It's nice to have an offense, it's taken the pressure off me to not try and create something." He was commenting on the big risky plays he did as a Ram to try and create those pick 6's. I think an elite O, improves your D

That would be strange because the Giants D dragged the Giants O kicking and screaming into the postseason this year. They were 26th in scoring.

If he's feeling less pressure it's probably because he's playing with a better supporting cast on D. He doesn't have those communication breakdowns that he did with Rodney McLeod either. DRC played like a top five corner on the other side and Landon Collins might've been the top safety in football.
 

shaunpinney

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That would be strange because the Giants D dragged the Giants O kicking and screaming into the postseason this year. They were 26th in scoring.

If he's feeling less pressure it's probably because he's playing with a better supporting cast on D. He doesn't have those communication breakdowns that he did with Rodney McLeod either. DRC played like a top five corner on the other side and Landon Collins might've been the top safety in football.

Fair point @tempests - I'd still pick an elite O though ;)
 

den-the-coach

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Patriots first in Total Offense 5th in total defense....Over the years the defense has not been as good, so again great QB, somewhat balance attack and solid defense. Bill Belichick was a defensive coach, but learned after losing to Peyton Manning (Colts) the formula for success.

Defense has to hold up and you need to be able to run the football when you are ahead, but in today's NFL great offenses win titles. @Mojo Ram it's also like that in three out of the four majors now, basketball & hockey, you need to score to win and that is where I want the Rams to focus their attention, IMHO.
 

snackdaddy

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If you're top 5 in both categories you're going to win a lot of games. If the question was bottom offense with top defense or vice versa, I'd go with the top offense. You always have a chance when you're scoring points.
 

Merlin

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Defense for me. A great defense gets itself off the field and avoids the periodic let downs we have been plagued with under Fisher's tenure. Our defense is good, but not great. Wade called that shortly after his hiring and he was right. Great defense can win it all by itself, just look at the Ravens or more recently the Broncos.

Fact is I love a good offense. I love the run game and the pass game. But I cannot abide watching my team if they cannot stop the other team, it's like being tortured even if you win in a shootout week after week and then you just know your team will be knocked out in the playoffs. I can suffer through a 3-0 win, though, and be good with it, and also feel a lot better going into the playoffs if my team has demonstrated an elite ability to limit points throughout the season.