Can someone help solve a Ram puzzle for me?

[Rams43]

Someone more into the X's and O's, perhaps?

Here we have this dynamic young RB in Gurley that's ripping off consecutive 120+ yard games on the ground. Including occasional huge chunks on the ground. He demands extra attention with opposing players creeping into the box.

And we have a QB in Foles that's reputedly an excellent play action QB.

Sooooo...

You would THINK that the above combo would provide us with a deadly play action game. One that would drive D's absolutely crazy.

Not to mention the occasional screen plays. They would take some pass rush heat off our OL youngsters. BTW, where are our middle screens? One would think that they would be effective.

Yet our passing game is still sputtering through 6 games, although it was nice to see Foles take a couple of deep shots in the 2nd half of the Brown game.

So, what am I missing, fellas?

I have 2 theories, but I would sure like to hear your thoughts before I post them.

This condition is defying conventional wisdom. At least I think it is.

 

[OnceARam]

I think in order to shed light on this topic we would need to understand whether Foles is a good play action QB, statistically speaking? I know that Peyton Manning, at this point in his career, need to pass out of the shotgun set. Maybe something similar is going on with Foles. Although in Foles' case it might be more about recognition than physical ability to take a 5 step drop... Anyway, I imagine people would give you more feedback if you posted your theories.

 

[WestCoastRam]

I think it's multiple reasons. That's the rub about our offense, really. There are like a million things wrong with it, not just one.

We need more snaps for more opportunities for play-action; generally speaking, the more short-yardage situations you have, the more chances you'll have for PA (we haven't had those)... and some of our bigger problems contribute to this.

1) Poor blocking
2) Poor accuracy from our QB due to bad footwork and feeling the rush
3) Receivers running the wrong route or not adjusting on checks (see Quick in one receiver set in Browns game)
4) Receivers dropping passes

The play-calling is sound, it's not the best in the NFL but it's not the worst. It's really about players executing right now.

With the execution being so poor, I will say I don't think we're able to get through our scripted plays in the beginning of the game and that's probably somewhat of a hinderance to play-calling. There could very well be some play-action in there that we're not getting to because we can't even pick up a 1st down on the 1st series.

 

[rick6fan]

I think it is a symptom of our inexperience. In run blocking, if a lineman blows his block(not whiffs), you have a 50-50 chance of the play going the other way. On those big losses in the 1Q against the Browns, if the play goes left instead of right it doesn't matter so much if Hav and Brown get beat to their outside shoulders. In the passing game, every mistake can easily result in a bad play, especially when the QB is slowed in his drop by play action. As the games go on, our inexperienced linemen begin to recognize what the opponents are doing, and counter it. I also believe there is a lot of coaching going on between series. I think that is part of the reason they have been so much more effective in the 2nd half. As far as screens go, it will come. Timing for the whole offence is key in screens, especially on middle screens, and again our very young line is still adjusting to NFL speed.

 

[Rams43]

I think in order to shed light on this topic we would need to understand whether Foles is a good play action QB, statistically speaking? I know that Peyton Manning, at this point in his career, need to pass out of the shotgun set. Maybe something similar is going on with Foles. Although in Foles' case it might be more about recognition than physical ability to take a 5 step drop... Anyway, I imagine people would give you more feedback if you posted your theories.

Well, my three theories are certainly not complicated. Lol.

One is that Cigs lacks faith in our OL's ability to protect Foles for even that long. Which is pathetic.

Another is that our various receivers can't quickly get open to make it work. If they can't, and without that RB there to protect him, Foles is a sitting duck. Also pathetic.

The third is that maybe Foles can't process his reads quickly enough. Yeah, also pathetic.

But I was hoping that someone would be able to point out where I was overlooking the obvious. So far, not happening.

 

[Merlin]

The main problem is the line 43. They have been allowing far too much penetration on both run and pass plays and it is affecting everything else.

Run blocking has improved the most, but it has also benefitted from an elite talent running through the holes. Gurley gives them a little more room for error, and his ability to bust big runs has allowed for a very good YPC average, masking the fact that they still have a ways to go as a line (IMO they need to limit the penetration much more consistently). And this is something that should scare other teams on our schedule too, since the OL has yet to really put together a dominant, full-60 effort. What will Gurley's game stats look like when that happens?

Pass blocking is hit and miss. The line had some great snaps against both Seattle and AZ, only to get overrun in pass pro when Washington and Cleveland stacked the LOS and brought the heat. That more than anything else is their issue.

From there, I do think scheme has been part of it. When they go with the shotgun on obvious passing downs defenses do not buy the play action which means Foles is throwing into the teeth of a defense that is dropping LBs deep and cluttering up the passing lanes. If the line was good enough that wouldn't matter as much, but they're not there yet and that delay on the reads is hurting Foles' ability to get that ball out. As I have been saying Cigs needs to put Foles under center and run play action on those third and long plays because teams are going to respect the play action no matter how bad the down/distance is given how good Gurley is. Lastly, more slants and vertical hot reads are needed. Cigs has gotten far too comfortable with the horizontal hots and checkdowns.

 

[RamDino]

Foles had 27 TD passes a couple of years ago. He can get it done. My theory is that teams are still stacking the box against us and daring us to throw. And until our offense shows that it can beat blitzes, 8-man boxes, and press coverage, teams will continue to utilize it (and it's been happening for years!). Sometimes our o-line gets beat, sometimes receivers drop the ball, and sometimes they simply don't have enough time to run routes. Unfortunately, it's always something (execution). Until our passing game can "attack" a defense, we will not have success throwing the ball. Foles has had some success in the hurry-up. Might as well try it again.

 

[RamBall]

Another thing about play action that doesnt bode well for Foles right now, is that if he turns his back to the line for the fake he has no idea how many DL are gonna be on his ass when he turns back to find a receiver. As mentioned above penetration is killing the O, it hurts the run game and the pass game.

 

[CodeMonkey]

Well, my three theories are certainly not complicated. Lol.

One is that Cigs lacks faith in our OL's ability to protect Foles for even that long. Which is pathetic.

Another is that our various receivers can't quickly get open to make it work. If they can't, and without that RB there to protect him, Foles is a sitting duck. Also pathetic.

The third is that maybe Foles can't process his reads quickly enough. Yeah, also pathetic.

But I was hoping that someone would be able to point out where I was overlooking the obvious. So far, not happening.

I think there is merit to each of those things. Pass Blocking, Receivers not getting open, Foles not processing quickly when that first read isn't there.

 

[bomebadeeda]

Defenses have seen run blitzes will disrupt our offensive flow. As a side product......they also give the defense (against our offense) better lanes to the QB. So play action is usually designed to have a good 3-4 seconds of confusion, we're lucky to get 2.5. And it's real hard to get a WR 50 yds or even a TE down the seam (after a "run sale") 30 yds. We are probably having our "kids" on the Oline, overextend that initial "push" and it gets them out of position to maintain pass protection. It's unfortunate part is our kids will need to grow up. Luckily we have a RB who changes everything and will start getting defenses actually committing to stopping the run, which should allow more time. But we can't go to the big well too often. Use shorter patterns for quicker processing. The defense will give you layers to run routes depending on the time.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Cignetti has Foles in the shot gun on many snaps because of the poor pass blocking. This negates an affective play action game. Foles bad footwork could be another reason for having him in the shotgun......and that too affects the play action.

 

[…..]

I'm worried that we're just a bad team offensively. Could be sub par receivers, quarterback, play calling, and offensive philosophy.

When nothing is going right, then the obvious things get lost in the shuffle. Another thing we should try to do is play action on obvious run downs to sell it. NOBODY is fooled by play action on 3rd down with 11 yards to go.

But mostly, I'm worried that we are awful. This past game solidified it. Bye weeks bonus practice time yielded nothing. Home game. Inferior opponent. Simply Inexcusable.

It makes me wonder why we have the balls to assume we'd beat San Francisco.

 

[Merlin]

Cignetti has Foles in the shot gun on many snaps because of the poor pass blocking. This negates an affective play action game. Foles bad footwork could be another reason for having him in the shotgun......and that too affects the play action.

I recall Manning needing to go shotgun last year due to teams stacking the interior gaps and disrupting the QB/RB exchange to the point that they knew the Broncos would not run the ball thus rendering them more predictable, but I really haven't seen that with this line tbh. This line has been pretty stout overall, their problems are more about inconsistency snap to snap than being overpowered. And sadly it's just really difficult to run the ball well from that side handoff motion, at least for many backs. Not sure how Gurley feels about it, but since he's killin it and showing great vision with a conventional straight-ahead handoff motion I certainly wouldn't want to mess with that.

My complaints with it are furthered by the fact that I cannot recall Cigs actually running the ball from the shotgun, which is the type of trend defenses key on. You can just see it in the past couple games where they line up in shotgun and the defense knows it's not a run. That has to be fixed in my estimation. These guys are not good enough to have consistently strong passing game performance when the defense knows what is coming.

 

[Zaphod]

I recall Manning needing to go shotgun last year due to teams stacking the interior gaps and disrupting the QB/RB exchange to the point that they knew the Broncos would not run the ball thus rendering them more predictable, but I really haven't seen that with this line tbh. This line has been pretty stout overall, their problems are more about inconsistency snap to snap than being overpowered. And sadly it's just really difficult to run the ball well from that side handoff motion, at least for many backs. Not sure how Gurley feels about it, but since he's killin it and showing great vision with a conventional straight-ahead handoff motion I certainly wouldn't want to mess with that.

My complaints with it are furthered by the fact that I cannot recall Cigs actually running the ball from the shotgun, which is the type of trend defenses key on. You can just see it in the past couple games where they line up in shotgun and the defense knows it's not a run. That has to be fixed in my estimation. These guys are not good enough to have consistently strong passing game performance when the defense knows what is coming.

How do you feel about rushing from the pistol formation?

 

[LACHAMP46]

I think in order to shed light on this topic we would need to understand whether Foles is a good play action QB, statistically speaking?

The third is that maybe Foles can't process his reads quickly enough. Yeah, also pathetic.

Foles not processing quickly when that first read isn't there.

I think we have a winner.....The 2013 season is/was a fluke.....Chip is crazy, not stupid. It's telling that if you compare A. Davis & Schotty to this year, who's looking better? Even the line is better this year when compared to the first 7 games of last year....

 

[Merlin]

How do you feel about rushing from the pistol formation?

I love the pistol formation. It solves some of those issues we're talking about because the back is directly behind him and you can play action well with it. Prob is the QB doesn't get the drop distance the standard gun gives him, but in order to gain the play action threat of Gurley I think it might be worth it.

Note that the play action from the pistol isn't as effective due to how quickly a handoff occurs after the snap. But you will freeze the LBs and safeties for a moment and aren't limited by the handoff direction in your run. I'd love to hear Cigs' thoughts on it and whether it would fit our personnel and why/why not.

 

[Alan]

Part of the problem IMO is that we try to run too often on first down. I am aware that Gurley leads the world in yardage gained on first down runs but that is both true and deceptive. True in that he often has a good gain but deceptive in that some of his really long gains have skewed his average. The defenses lean towards us calling a run on first down and that, combined with the inability of our O-line to open a hole usually results in bad to mediocre results. Once we are in 2nd/3rd and long the play action isn't believable. On comes their pass rush which our O-line is even less capable of handling. When we do run on second down our lack of run blocking kicks in again. I think we need to pass to set up the run. For play action passes to work, the D must fear the pass.

That was of course, just a long-winded way of blaming our O-line.

 

[V3]

The problem is multifaceted. There are issues with our receivers not getting open consistently, a new OC with plenty of questions about his ability(jury's still out, IMO), an O-line that's not good at pass blocking, and a QB that can take too long to go through his reads and/or can miss his receivers. There's no quick fix here.