Browns need to make a Jimmy Garoppolo trade happen

[Selassie I]

If the cheaters are willing to trade him, no matter the price, I would stay far far away from him.

 

[jrry32]

Clearly there is not way to fully respond to this. You have your opinion. I call bull on some of your analysis though. You call bull on the oline and reference another poster (which makes me question if you watched him or relying on others info) who's release numbers are incorrect.
http://m.weei.com/sports/feed/blog/...-showcases-quick-release-upset-over-cardinals

He posted every single play. You can call bull on my analysis all you'd like. I saw every single play. Garoppolo received stellar protection. Protection that us Rams fans would beg to have. His assessments were accurate regarding how often Garoppolo was pressured. And FYI, the link you posted explicitly said that they didn't include sacks. If Garoppolo held the ball for awhile on his sacks and scrambles, that would account for the small difference.

He avoided hits by getting rid of the ball and manipulating the pocket.
How you dont see a different player than the college player tells me you did not watch him in college or the NFL because he is not the same player.

I watched him in college, I watched him in the NFL prior to this year, and I watched him in the NFL this year. I see the same player.

He avoided getting hit because he received stellar protection, and the Patriots scheme dictates that the QB get the ball out quickly. It schemes guys to get open quickly. In the Cardinals game especially, Garoppolo was often getting the ball out quickly to an open initial read. That's something that a high percentage of NFL QBs can do well. What separates the wheat from the chaff is a QB's ability to respond when things aren't going his way.

If you really watched every snap this year and you think he is a "tad" better than Flynn and McCarron then there is nothing left to say. Im sorry but he is much better than those players and its not close.

In Flynn's two combined starts in Green Bay, he dropped 9 TDs to 2 Ints, 730+ yards, a completion percentage of 67+%, a YPA over 8, and a QB Rating well over 100. His two starts came against the 14-2 Patriots and the 10-6 Lions.

What did Flynn end up being? He ended up being a backup caliber QB who played out of his mind for a couple games due to the system and the talent around him.

Same is true of McCarron. Came in, played well against some tough teams, and now has some people thinking he's a future starting QB.

In fact, two of the five NFL Executives from this article explicitly state that they prefer McCarron to Garoppolo:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...sk-5-which-qb-would-you-pursue-this-offseason

Personally, I wouldn't pursue either.

I got duped by Matt Flynn because I didn't trust my evaluation of him due to what he did in his starts. I'm not getting duped again.

As for Hundley, again I hold on to a player like him. If you think he can play you keep him as insurance in case Rodgers gets hurt. He is more valuable to GB as a viable backup then a 3rd round gamble IMO.

How is a backup QB more valuable than a 3rd round pick? I'd trade Mannion in a heartbeat for a 3rd round pick. The Packers can just draft and develop another QB. Plus, that Joe Callahan guy isn't a terrible backup option either.

 

[jrry32]

Difference between Garapolo and Mallet/Cassell/Flynn is that that JG was drafted in the 2nd round, and he is progressing worthy of his draft status. Flynn was a one game wonder who didn't even start a full season, and Cassell never even started in college.

Flynn was a two game wonder. Garoppolo is a one and a half game wonder. Draft position doesn't guarantee anything.

And the fact is that Cassel started a full season in the NFL. Any team trading for him had 516 attempts to judge him off of in real game action. Jimmy Garoppolo threw the ball 63 times in 2016. That makes Cassel a much easier evaluation. But a team got duped. Why? Because the talent around Cassel and the Patriots system masked his flaws.

 

[dieterbrock]

Flynn was a two game wonder. Garoppolo is a one and a half game wonder. Draft position doesn't guarantee anything.

And the fact is that Cassel started a full season in the NFL. Any team trading for him had 516 attempts to judge him off of in real game action. Jimmy Garoppolo threw the ball 63 times in 2016. That makes Cassel a much easier evaluation. But a team got duped. Why? Because the talent around Cassel and the Patriots system masked his flaws.

I don't know if KC got duped either, Cassel was a pro bowl QB in 2010, led KC to a 10-5 record and had 27-7 TD-INT
Garopollo was a 2nd rounder and his fine play this year makes him more legit than Flynn's miracle game IMO
If you believed in JG as a prospect, you follow this thinking. If you didn't like him as a prospect, there's no discussion really

 

[jrry32]

I don't know if KC got duped either, Cassel was a pro bowl QB in 2010, led KC to a 10-5 record and had 27-7 TD-INT
Garopollo was a 2nd rounder and his fine play this year makes him more legit than Flynn's miracle game IMO
If you believed in JG as a prospect, you follow this thinking. If you didn't like him as a prospect, there's no discussion really

KC got duped. I posted a breakdown back then because people were hyping Cassel, but he basically feasted on bad defenses that year. IIRC, he had 17 TDs to 0 Ints against bottom 10 defenses in the NFL. And then there's the other years where he was straight up dreadful.

Flynn didn't just have a miracle game. He made two starts for GB. One against a 14-2 NE team and one against the 10-6 Lions. He had a good game against the Patriots and an elite game against the Lions. It was more than a single game. The situations weren't that different. Of course, Flynn was a little less talented than Garoppolo, but I'm not sold on Garoppolo because he 1.5 strong games while surrounded by talent in pretty much the ideal situation.

 

[Merlin]

Garoppolo is a mediocre talent whose value has been inflated by the Patriots' talent around him and staff.

Dudes like him in every single draft.

This is a Bwoston media creation too. McCarron makes more sense for Cleveland as he played for Jackson and I personally think is a better prospect.

All that aside, and in spite of the fact I like Jackson, I think he needs to wise up with his QB moves. If he doesn't prioritize it he will be just another HC sent packing because his ego led him to believe he can win without a QB.

 

[BonifayRam]

The browns arent a QB a way. Unless he becomes a HoFer, I think its dumb to trade premium picks for such an uncertainty when your roster is so talent ridden. Id ride out another bad season and continue to draft best player available

Somewhat close to trading for the 1st pick in the 2016 draft in exchange for 2016 First round #8 selection, 2016 Second round #43, 2016 Second round #45, 2017 First round #5 overall pick & 2017 Third round selection?

 

[tomas]

All that aside, and in spite of the fact I like Jackson, I think he needs to wise up with his QB moves. If he doesn't prioritize it he will be just another HC sent packing because his ego led him to believe he can win without a QB.

 

[LesBaker]

he played in a system that is incredible at scheming WRs open

It's been something to watch the Patriots adjust and retool how they play offense. You have to respect how they morph so successfully.

Better, maybe, if Gordon ever gets his crap together.

He won't play this year and I won't be surprised if he never plays another down in the NFL. He has Manziel level maturity. And he was out on California at the house that got trashed with Manziel where there were drugs left behind a 40K worth of damage. Lifetime frat boy.

All the speculation about the Browns trading for Jimmy ignore one simple thing that eliminates them from consideration. One simple word, Moneyball! Paul DePodesta was brought over from baseball to run the Browns. The very concept of trading for an unproven QB and signing him to a big contract is the antithesis to Moneyball.

Haslem is one of the very worst owners in the NFL. He may be the worst. CLE fans hate him and he continues to give them reasons to do so. I was shocked he didn't fire Jackson since he has pretty much fired every HC he has hired after one year. Maybe two. And has done the same with GM's as well. He's the picture of greed and not caring about the sport.

If the cheaters are willing to trade him, no matter the price, I would stay far far away from him.

That's a smart policy.

 

[jrry32]

All that aside, and in spite of the fact I like Jackson, I think he needs to wise up with his QB moves. If he doesn't prioritize it he will be just another HC sent packing because his ego led him to believe he can win without a QB.

I think he's making the right decision. He needs to put together a functional team before trying to toss his QB in. If he can get Tyrod Taylor from the Bills, I think he'd be doing very well for himself. Buys him time to build a team while using a solid starting QB as a bridge.

 

[DCH]

I think he's making the right decision. He needs to put together a functional team before trying to toss his QB in. If he can get Tyrod Taylor from the Bills, I think he'd be doing very well for himself. Buys him time to build a team while using a solid starting QB as a bridge.

Taylor's a hell of a QB. The Bills would be impressively stupid to let him walk. Who would they run out under center? Manuel's a UFA and terrible. Cardale Jones is terrible and, I think, the only guy on the roster.

Waste of Sammy Watkins and LeSean McCoy, it'd be.

 

[ArkyRamsFan]

I think he's making the right decision. He needs to put together a functional team before trying to toss his QB in. If he can get Tyrod Taylor from the Bills, I think he'd be doing very well for himself. Buys him time to build a team while using a solid starting QB as a bridge.

jrry32,
I am curious how does your scouting analysis of Garoppolo compare with Jared Goff?

I would especially be interested in your thoughts of both of them coming out of college.

What say ye?

~ArkyRamsFan~

 

[jrry32]

jrry32,
I am curious how does your scouting analysis of Garoppolo compare with Jared Goff?

I would especially be interested in your thoughts of both of them coming out of college.

What say ye?

~ArkyRamsFan~

Goff was a much better prospect imo. I think he was better than Garoppolo in every category.(although, one could make an argument for Garoppolo for accuracy on short routes)

 

[ArkyRamsFan]

Goff was a much better prospect imo. I think he was better than Garoppolo in every category.(although, one could make an argument for Garoppolo for accuracy on short routes)

Thanks jrry, I kinda figured that was how you saw it. My next question is what round did you have Garoppolo rated to go in?
Also, do you think the Rams should have taken him instead of LaMarcus Joyner.

Heh...isn't hindsight fun!

~ArkyRamsFan~

 

[jrry32]

Thanks jrry, I kinda figured that was how you saw it. My next question is what round did you have Garoppolo rated to go in?

This is what I had to say about him back then:
"I feel like he's a worthwhile developmental guy, but those who believe he's a realistic starting option now if they pass on QBs in the first might be overstating things.

If you look at Tony Romo, Garoppolo offers a similar physical talent with a quick release. But then again, he's not nearly as poised as Romo in the pocket and doesn't have the presence, footwork and escapability when pressured.

But that might be able to be worked on in the NFL. We'll see. As a 3rd to 4th rounder...why not?"

Also, do you think the Rams should have taken him instead of LaMarcus Joyner.

Heh...isn't hindsight fun!

~ArkyRamsFan~

No. If I was doing anything that year at QB in the top 50 picks, it was trading up to #31 or #32 for Teddy Bridgewater. I loved Teddy. He was near the top of my Rams draft board despite the fact that I believed in Sam.

 

[Prime Time]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-trade-12th-overall-pick-for-jimmy-garoppolo/

Report: Browns would trade 12th overall pick for Jimmy Garoppolo
Posted by Michael David Smith on March 7, 2017

Getty Images

Despite reports that the Patriots will not trade backup quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo, the Browns would like to see if there’s a deal that could pry Garoppolo out of New England.

Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports that the Browns’ “dream scenario” would be trading the 12th overall pick for Garoppolo after using the first overall pick on pass rusher Myles Garrett.

That, however, would probably not be enough for the Patriots to give up Garoppolo. They reportedly would want a first-round pick this year as well as a conditional pick that could be as good as another first-rounder in 2018. That might be more than the Browns are willing to deal.

But there’s more to the Garoppolo trade than just whether the Patriots and the Browns (or some other team) can agree on compensation. There’s also what Garoppolo wants to do. Publicly, Garoppolo is saying it’s out of his hands, but the reality is he can exert an enormous amount of influence over his future. If he wants to leave New England and go somewhere he can start, he could start speaking publicly about being unhappy as a backup.

Bill Belichick doesn’t like having guys in the locker room who don’t buy into what the Patriots are doing, so if Garoppolo started making noises about wanting to leave, Belichick would likely move him. Conversely, if Garoppolo doesn’t want to go to Cleveland (or any other team), he can announce that he will not agree to a long-term contract extension with any team that trades for him without his consent.

That wouldn’t prevent him from being traded, but it would make a trade unlikely, as teams don’t want to trade first-round picks for players who are going to leave in free agency a year later.

Until we know whether or not Garoppolo wants to play for the Browns, we can’t know how likely a trade is. But it sounds like a trade the Browns would like to make.

 

[GabesHorn]

Watch Rich Eisen show almost daily and today they threw out there that the Pats were actually seeking (2) number ones for Garappalo. It made me think the Patriots are either drunk on themselves and either think they can do no wrong or really DO NOT want to have anyone take him away in his last season. It really confused me, like hearing that it's not the Browns who want to trade for TJ. No one makes more since then a team with Williams' weird defense and players that are already familiar with it and throw Barron in who Williams reincarnated his career inventing a special position just for him in the defense.

I'll be shocked if a deal is done and its not the Browns. Then I also think TJ may need to get paranoid we may back out of this deal seeing the RAMS look like they wanted to trade him the whole time knowing no long term deal was never gonna get done. We are not going to the Playoffs this year. Tons of coaching and becoming a cohesive team and evaluating talent as well and as fast as our coaches can ,not to cut a player who can contribute later. Nothing short of Great moves need to be made ALL year to get Jared Goff uninjured and going in a POSITIVE direction we all expected last year. I kinda wish from what I've seen that we could not take even more time with him. He must have protection and HANDS that can catch. Plus He himself must show the utmost in effort and must gain muscle size in his extremities and all that it takes becoming a true Pro. Protections and pre-reading and post snap reads must increase. Warner could pre-read and get to his last read on the field spreading to the open man.

I collect almost every NFL collectible there is. My biggest collection is in NFL cards and their grading. Cards are graded in 4 key area's (centering,corners,edges,surface)then the signature is even graded. I never saw a more changing autograph of a player in the NFL as Jared Goffs signature is especially being the first draft pick in a rookie year you are gonna be signing your name more times then you ever wanted too. Kurt Warners autographs( I have a thousand of ) looked like a robot did them with such legibility and consistency compared to Goff's who are so sloppy you can't risk sending them off for a grade. Even on his super special one of one short printed cards of Top value he did not care to take the time or effort to be neat or legible. I don't know anything about Jared as a person but am wondering if a person's signature says anything about them. Dickerson and Youngbloods are emaculate and consistant. Like art. Even Deacon's stayed consistent till his very last days.

Jared Goff could not give two cents about his autograph and how he represents himself by the sloppiness he puts on some Super Expensive Hobby cards and all the things companies have you sign. I have been SO dissapointed in the effort in such a small thing. I wonder if it translates in anyway to what we can expect to see from him in his Pro football career. Don't laugh or pee on yourself from reading this as NFL cards is a Billion dollar bizz. I in a hobby have been blessed in reselling. Just pointing out something that really does stand out in two decades of Card collecting. Even guys signing with just two letters over and over do a much better job. If I was comparing his signature on a check to see if it was forged I'd have a very hard time. Just hope this small insignificant thing plays no part in the measure of athletic skills. It's really that bad. Like he still has not settled on how he wants to write his own name. I know it's very sad to be aware of such stupid things. I can't help but wonder after observing for one year many 1000's of times.

 

[OldSchool]

The Patriots need to trade him more than anybody needs to trade for him.

 

[jrry32]

I collect almost every NFL collectible there is. My biggest collection is in NFL cards and their grading. Cards are graded in 4 key area's (centering,corners,edges,surface)then the signature is even graded. I never saw a more changing autograph of a player in the NFL as Jared Goffs signature is especially being the first draft pick in a rookie year you are gonna be signing your name more times then you ever wanted too. Kurt Warners autographs( I have a thousand of ) looked like a robot did them with such legibility and consistency compared to Goff's who are so sloppy you can't risk sending them off for a grade. Even on his super special one of one short printed cards of Top value he did not care to take the time or effort to be neat or legible. I don't know anything about Jared as a person but am wondering if a person's signature says anything about them. Dickerson and Youngbloods are emaculate and consistant. Like art. Even Deacon's stayed consistent till his very last days.

Jared Goff could not give two cents about his autograph and how he represents himself by the sloppiness he puts on some Super Expensive Hobby cards and all the things companies have you sign. I have been SO dissapointed in the effort in such a small thing. I wonder if it translates in anyway to what we can expect to see from him in his Pro football career. Don't laugh or pee on yourself from reading this as NFL cards is a Billion dollar bizz. I in a hobby have been blessed in reselling. Just pointing out something that really does stand out in two decades of Card collecting. Even guys signing with just two letters over and over do a much better job. If I was comparing his signature on a check to see if it was forged I'd have a very hard time. Just hope this small insignificant thing plays no part in the measure of athletic skills. It's really that bad. Like he still has not settled on how he wants to write his own name. I know it's very sad to be aware of such stupid things. I can't help but wonder after observing for one year many 1000's of times.

It's probably an age thing. My signature looks like crap too. I almost always fail to repeat it. Half the time, I give no effort to try and make it legible. I wouldn't put a lot of stock into something so meaningless. Hell, doctors are notorious for it.

 

[jrry32]

Coach Hue Jackson intimated selecting Cody Kessler in the third round of last year's draft wasn't his decision.
After the pick was made, Jackson was on record saying "trust me on this one." He's since changed his tune, saying "you play with the hand that's dealt you," suggesting the analytics-driven front office made the call. Jackson, at the Combine last week, said he prefers his quarterback to be at least 6-foot-2. Kessler is 6'1/215. Another passer linked to the Browns, Tyrod Taylor, is also 6-foot-1. Draft prospects DeShone Kizer (6'4), Patrick Mahomes (6'2), Deshaun Watson (6'2), and Mitchell Trubisky (6'2) all meet Jackson's desired height. Mar 7 - 10:54 PM

I didn't think that pick made sense when you considered Hue's system and typical preferences at QB. I wonder if Garoppolo is the FO's choice or Hue's choice.(Garoppolo has similar skill-set to Kessler's)

Are the Browns being dysfunctional again? Just when I thought that the Redskins couldn't be topped...