Brian Schottenheimer Is Not the Problem

[-X-]

Couldn't one say that coaching like he has them is an issue?

Only if he's coaching Hill to hold the ball too long and letting his receivers outrun his arm.

 

[fearsomefour]

I don't care if they trust their OL. That's not stopping them from hitting the WR with a pass. Hill and Davis just don't get it done. We need a guy that's at least an average starting QB. Hill or Davis are fine if they were starting 1 or 2 games...but over 16 games, they're going to hold this team back. We need Bradford. Hell, I'd settle for Cutler, Stafford, or Palmer.

And thats a major part of the problem. Davis is a three and Hill is a good back up. Back up being defined as not a starter for a season.
he completed 75% of his passes vs. the Giants and really was not bad....he just does not have the arm to throw deep, so, everything deep is a rainbow.
Major issues with the running game....again....still. Gave up on it too early today.
If the problem is the QB then the Rams are in trouble long term. FA help? Nope. Being able to count on Bradford? Not really. Whats the best option?
I still think with a team that is mostly ready to win I still think bringing Bradford back with a reduced price with Hill as his back up is the way to go. If a rookie ends up playing next year its a toss away year anyway more than likely.

 

[Robocop]

why is schotty calling plays like he's got Bradford back there slinging it? why is he calling plays like the offensive line is full of the studs they thought they had but dont? you gotta adapt the play calling to the players you have. makes no sense

 

[bwdenverram]

Sam Bradford with ALL the pieces we would of had starting the season would be night and day from Davis and Hill.

 

[WvuIN02]

In nine years BS has never had an offense any team in the NFL has been afraid of. As someone else pointed out, he must be the most unlucky OC ever. His two best rankings of his offenses came in at 10th and 16th, and those teams rode elite defenses.

 

[jrry32]

And thats a major part of the problem. Davis is a three and Hill is a good back up. Back up being defined as not a starter for a season.
he completed 75% of his passes vs. the Giants and really was not bad....he just does not have the arm to throw deep, so, everything deep is a rainbow.
Major issues with the running game....again....still. Gave up on it too early today.
If the problem is the QB then the Rams are in trouble long term. FA help? Nope. Being able to count on Bradford? Not really. Whats the best option?
I still think with a team that is mostly ready to win I still think bringing Bradford back with a reduced price with Hill as his back up is the way to go. If a rookie ends up playing next year its a toss away year anyway more than likely.

Yep. Agreed. Winston and Mariota maybe able to get us there but it would be a process and I don't think we have a shot at either.

Just kills me that we don't have Teddy Bridgewater. I'm speaking in hindsight because I wasn't banging the table to trade up on draft day but we'd be feeling great right now if we had Teddy. As I expected, he's a guy that wins with mental acuity, command of his offense, and precision...which means that he started slow and has gotten better and better as the year has progresses. I think he's going to have a very nice year next year. Watching the Miami game, you can see what sort of potential he has. I really wish we had that kid. I really wish there was a kid like him in this class that would fall.

But there's not. Sigh.

In my other critique's I've always acknowledged that Schotty has had to deal with some talent issues that are not his fault. But that still doesn't excuse some of his baffling playcalls that seem to come at the worst times in games, particularly when some of those playcalls expose the very weaknesses he's had to deal with.

And I also can't for the life of me figure out why he goes away from the running game so quickly, especially when we know there are issues with the QB's he's had in Bradford's absence. He seems to be doing that even more this year than last year, despite having a more explosive back in Mason. And we still had interior OL problems last year, with Wells at C and Chris Williams at LG, but with Stacy he stuck with the run more than now.

I think the biggest issue this year is that we go away from the run game because so much of it is smoke and mirrors imo. When we try to roll with it, it seems to me that teams just clamp down on it. We're not winning the LOS because Joseph and Wells severely limit what we can do...and Greg is a rookie.

We're just not able to impose our will this year. Last year, we had some of those issues but our passing game was a lot more limited imo.

When you see what an Odell Beckham does for an average WR corps how do you not think the Rams offense needs that. I like Britt, Quick and Bailey but a Larry Fitzgerald, or T.O. type puts them over the top. Since Quick went down with a supposedly very serious shoulder injury teams have been able to focus on Britt. Britt has looked very good but he needs help. There is no guarantee that Quick is even ready by next season and if the Rams were able to add another top threat it wouldn't matter. Someone like White could make the Rams receiver corps elite.

Either way WR is a strength in round 1 this year and if the Rams truly do draft BPA there would be a high likelihood that they would be in prime position to take one.

Because Britt and Quick both have stood out this year. Together, I think they're a strong duo and getting another WR will only push one of them off the field and make it harder to get guys like Bailey and Austin snaps.

I think Britt and Quick outside with Bailey operating out of the slot is a good looking trio. Austin's WR skills aren't quite there yet...but who knows...maybe he turns the corner next year...and if he does...that's four good options at WR with Cook at TE.

I'm not opposed to taking White or Cooper. If they're at the top of my board...sure. But I don't think it's a need either.

 

[Amitar]

No one ever said Shott is the entire problem. But he is a major problem even with good OL and QB. The Rams are capable of much more.

 

[Young Ram]

why is schotty calling plays like he's got Bradford back there slinging it? why is he calling plays like the offensive line is full of the studs they thought they had but dont? you gotta adapt the play calling to the players you have. makes no sense

Because then people would complain that all he calls are short passes and he needs to throw it deep. Goes hand in hand man.

 

[Boston Ram]

Schotty frustrates me at times but I don't know of many fan-bases that like their OC. I will say that watching this team week after week, I don't think Schotty is the problem. Tavon's usage frustrates me but I also don't think Tavon is "there" yet as a WR. I would like to see him used more on deep routes but that's digressing from my point.

Our QB play this year has been a major issue and it's hard for an OC to look good when his QB misses a lot of plays. To add onto the QB woes, we lost our #1 WR and our starting LT early in the season. Davin Joseph and Scott Wells have not been bad. They have arguably been the worst players at their positions this year. And our offense has to work to compensate for the liabilities they are in the middle of the OL. Joe Barksdale has struggled the second half of the year. And we're breaking in a rookie LT.

Look, it's easy to point the finger at Schotty but I think it's very arguable that our offense has overachieved. I'm not sure there are many OCs that could have done much with this offense this year. The right side of our OL has been atrocious. Our C and RG can't be relied upon in the run game and we have to design blocking schemes to cover for their issues. Our RT and LT have had consistency issues. And our WR/TE corp is much better this year but still not the best in this league. Then when you add a journeyman spot starter as well as a career 3rd stringer as our QBs...what do people expect?

My opinion is that if Fisher stays, Schotty deserves another year with a real QB and a real interior OL.

I'm not saying the guy needs to have the perfect offense...but like we demand for Sam, is it too much to ask for Schotty to have an offense with average talent before we judge him?

So...lets fix our interior and lets stabilize the QB situation. I'm already resigned to the fact that Fisher will be back next year...but he will be on the hot seat for me. Enough of the losing. It's time for this team to make the playoffs.

I think Schotty should be back to. I think the guy has been criticized a bit unfairly this year.

Well said. I have said this all year. He has had to overcome quite a bit of obstacles and the offense has been good......all things considered.

He is not perfect and I don't agree with everything he does but I don't think he is the problem.

 

[fearsomefour]

Yep. Agreed. Winston and Mariota maybe able to get us there but it would be a process and I don't think we have a shot at either.

Just kills me that we don't have Teddy Bridgewater. I'm speaking in hindsight because I wasn't banging the table to trade up on draft day but we'd be feeling great right now if we had Teddy. As I expected, he's a guy that wins with mental acuity, command of his offense, and precision...which means that he started slow and has gotten better and better as the year has progresses. I think he's going to have a very nice year next year. Watching the Miami game, you can see what sort of potential he has. I really wish we had that kid. I really wish there was a kid like him in this class that would fall.

But there's not. Sigh.



I think the biggest issue this year is that we go away from the run game because so much of it is smoke and mirrors imo. When we try to roll with it, it seems to me that teams just clamp down on it. We're not winning the LOS because Joseph and Wells severely limit what we can do...and Greg is a rookie.

We're just not able to impose our will this year. Last year, we had some of those issues but our passing game was a lot more limited imo.



Because Britt and Quick both have stood out this year. Together, I think they're a strong duo and getting another WR will only push one of them off the field and make it harder to get guys like Bailey and Austin snaps.

I think Britt and Quick outside with Bailey operating out of the slot is a good looking trio. Austin's WR skills aren't quite there yet...but who knows...maybe he turns the corner next year...and if he does...that's four good options at WR with Cook at TE.

I'm not opposed to taking White or Cooper. If they're at the top of my board...sure. But I don't think it's a need either.

I like Bridgewater more than any of the other first rounders....I like Fales as well last year. Teddy throws a heck of a nice ball also. He has impressed me what I have seen of him this year with Minnesota.

 

[Alan]

jrry32 with his own dictionary:
I have a lot of empirical evidence to back that up. But we were #2 in the NFL going into this game in DPPG Allowed. We'll still be top 8 after this week. crap happens.

If we fix the problems at RG, RT(if Barks leaves), and QB AND add depth at certain positions, I think we're a playoff team...and not just a playoff team, we're a team that can win in the playoffs.

That's only empirical evidence using your own unique definition of a top 10/5 defense jrry. You seem to be the only one who uses DPPG to measure that. I'm right there with every other source of stats that uses total yards allowed as the defining stat when ranking overall D. So yeah, I'll say it again, you have no empirical evidence to back that statement up.

Whether it's the situation at RT (even if we retain Barks), C, FS (might be on our roster could be said, although not with a straight face, about any hole in our roster) or having no decent WLB you are able to minimize their overall effect on our team. We could use more of that kind of positive viewpoint around here if for no other reason than to make the off season go by faster but it won't be coming from me and I think our record speaks for the validity of my point of view about that issue. I don't want to rain on your positive thoughts with all my negativity so I'll just stop there except to say that there's no doubt in my mind that with our present coaching staff we need to fix more than just the few problems with personnel you mentioned. Not if we want to really have a chance to win the big one.

A noticeable incremental yearly improvement and a huge 3 year improvement in overall talent level despite the fact that our record doesn't show it though. So I'll end with that positive note.

 

[jrry32]

That's only empirical evidence using your own unique definition of a top 10/5 defense jrry. You seem to be the only one who uses DPPG to measure that. I'm right there with every other source of stats that uses total yards allowed as the defining stat when ranking overall D. So yeah, I'll say it again, you have no empirical evidence to back that statement up.

WHAT? I don't know of anyone who thinks defenses shouldn't be judged by how many points they give up. And no, total yards allowed is not the defining stat. Points per game allowed is. But points per game allowed is flawed because it doesn't account only for points given up by the defense. Which is why I compiled the data myself. Although, it has not been adjusted for this week yet.

I do have empirical evidence. I have my observations AND stats. I have us being in the top 3 in DPPG Allowed going into this week and I have us being in the top 4 in points per drive going into this week. There is plenty of empirical evidence. You not agreeing with evidence does not mean it is non-existent.

But I just want to get this straight...I have a unique definition of top 5/10 defenses by ranking them based on how many points they've allowed? Come on, Alan, you cannot be serious.

Whether it's the situation at RT (even if we retain Barks), C, FS (might be on our roster could be said, although not with a straight face, about any hole in our roster) or having no decent WLB you are able to minimize their overall effect on our team. We could use more of that kind of positive viewpoint around here but it won't be coming from me and I think our record speaks for the validity of my point of view about that issue. I don't want to rain on your positive thoughts with all my negativity so I'll just stop there except to say that there's no doubt in my mind that with our present coaching staff we need to fix more than just the few problems with personnel you mentioned. Not if we want to really have a chance to win the big one.

A very noticeable incremental yearly improvement and a huge 3 year improvement in overall talent level despite the fact that our record doesn't show it though. So I'll end with that positive note.

I think our record speaks more to the issues of breaking in a new defensive scheme while playing 16 games without your starting QB.

I don't agree with you. Seattle was not perfect...they won a Super Bowl. If we get the OL set and the QB set, we can win a Super Bowl.

 

[Memento]

I don't think Schottenheimer was the problem in this game. The problem is that the entire right side of our offensive line is a sieve, Robinson is a red-shirt sophomore rookie who's been forced into action at left tackle due to injury, our center is the worst center who has started at least one game this season, and even on the rare occasions that Hill wasn't under pressure, he screwed up a lot of throws. I like that Tavon was sent deep in this game for once. We got too one-dimensional, but that was because our defense couldn't hold up.

If you're going to put blame on a coach, put it on Williams. It was his job to stop Beckham, he had ten days to prepare, and that punkass made our entire defense look foolish.

 

[Alan]

You need to get another cup of coffee @jrry32 . Go to ESPN (as an example) and click on total defense in team stats. How are the rankings determined? So yet again I'll say that you have no empirical evidence (except your own personal subjective observations and hand picked selective stats) that we're a top ten offense. You're just picking a stat that you like best and one that confirms your contention.

As an aside, I disagree with your contention that it's the true measure of a great D too. What would you call the D that let the other team march down the field at will even if they stopped them from scoring a TD? I wouldn't call that a great D and no official source (not individual posters) does either or they'd sort and rank using that particular stat.

No matter how you prejudice the question by how you phrase it (you cannot be serious), I am serious. So yeah, while we agree about many things, we also see things differently in many areas and this is one of them.

I'm not looking for perfect jrry, merely consistently competent.

 

[jrry32]

I don't think Schottenheimer was the problem in this game. The problem is that the entire right side of our offensive line is a sieve, Robinson is a red-shirt sophomore rookie who's been forced into action at left tackle due to injury, our center is the worst center who has started at least one game this season, and even on the rare occasions that Hill wasn't under pressure, he screwed up a lot of throws. I like that Tavon was sent deep in this game for once. We got too one-dimensional, but that was because our defense couldn't hold up.

If you're going to put blame on a coach, put it on Williams. It was his job to stop Beckham, he had ten days to prepare, and that punkass made our entire defense look foolish.

Beckham's two TDs came off blown coverages. I lay that at the feet of the players. I will blame Williams because it seemed like the Giants had our number today...although Trumaine playing like he was hung over certainly helped them with that.

 

[jrry32]

You need to get another cup of coffee @jrry32 . Go to ESPN (as an example) and click on total defense in team stats. How are the rankings determined? So yet again I'll say that you have no empirical evidence (except your own personal subjective observations and hand picked selective stats) that we're a top ten offense. You're just picking a stat that you like best and one that confirms your contention.

As an aside, I disagree with your contention that it's the true measure of a great D too. What would you call the D that let the other team march down the field at will even if they stopped them from scoring a TD? I wouldn't call that a great D and no official source (not individual posters) does either or they'd sort and rank using that particular stat.

No matter how you prejudice the question by how you phrase it (you cannot be serious), I am serious. So yeah, while we agree about many things, we also see things differently in many areas and this is one of them.

No, I'm picking the stat that matters. Points win games. Points lose games.

What would I call a D that lets the other team march down the field but not score TDs? A winning defense.

There isn't a person in this world that would care if their defense gave up 400 yards per game if they only gave up 15 points per game. Yards don't win games. Points win games.

So let me ask you a question, Alan...which defense would you rather have...
Denver - 309.4 yards per game allowed, 21.6 points per game allowed
Arizona - 366.4 yards per game allowed, 18.6 points per game allowed
(I'm using points per game allowed because I haven't updated my DPPG allowed numbers yet)

Ignore the personnel...speaking purely statistically, which defense would you rather have?

Me? It's an easy answer. As I said before, the game is won and lost by points.

 

[Memento]

Beckham's two TDs came off blown coverages. I lay that at the feet of the players. I will blame Williams because it seemed like the Giants had our number today...although Trumaine playing like he was hung over certainly helped them with that.

In my honest opinion, McLeod's played his way off the team after this game. Horrible tackling form on that 45 yard run by Williams, horrible coverage on the Randle Rueben bombs, and he didn't smear OBJ's guts all over the field when he damn well should have. Let Joyner take over the damn free safety spot and have done with it. At least Joyner can actually correctly tackle someone bigger than he is.

And yes, Tru played awful, but I'm willing to give him a pass because he's had great games against very good receivers this year (with the exception of today, but hell, even Gaines was giving up yards today.

And also agree on the blown coverages. Leaving Mark Barron on an island against OBJ should be considered a sin.

 

[jrry32]

In my honest opinion, McLeod's played his way off the team after this game. Horrible tackling form on that 45 yard run by Williams, horrible coverage on the Randle Rueben bombs, and he didn't smear OBJ's guts all over the field when he damn well should have. Let Joyner take over the damn free safety spot and have done with it. At least Joyner can actually correctly tackle someone bigger than he is.

And yes, Tru played awful, but I'm willing to give him a pass because he's had great games against very good receivers this year (with the exception of today, but hell, even Gaines was giving up yards today.

And also agree on the blown coverages. Leaving Mark Barron on an island against OBJ should be considered a sin.

Mark Barron wasn't supposed to be on an island. That's the blown coverage. You can see it if you watch the replay. Trumaine seems shocked that Joyner is doubling his guy. And I would be too because based on my knowledge of our scheme and that coverage, Joyner should have been carrying Beckham Jr. up the field in trail position with Barron over the top. He hung Barron out to dry.

But that's the issue with rookies. They make mental errors. And it's probably why Joyner hasn't been playing as much lately...he's still adjusting to the scheme. But I would like to see him get his shot at FS next year.

 

[Memento]

Mark Barron wasn't supposed to be on an island. That's the blown coverage. You can see it if you watch the replay. Trumaine seems shocked that Joyner is doubling his guy. And I would be too because based on my knowledge of our scheme and that coverage, Joyner should have been carrying Beckham Jr. up the field in trail position with Barron over the top. He hung Barron out to dry.

But that's the issue with rookies. They make mental errors. And it's probably why Joyner hasn't been playing as much lately...he's still adjusting to the scheme. But I would like to see him get his shot at FS next year.

That's what I meant to say. I was at the game, saw the replay on the Jumbotron. I apologize for my miscommunication. Guess I'm not all that different from the Rams defensive backs.

And yeah, I totally agree about Joyner.

 

[iced]

Glad we heard all this talk about Devin joseph and how it was a "good thing" that Robinson couldn't over the "Former Pro Bowler"

Schotty is a part of the problem, and definitely isn't the solution to it. He coaches these guys in the meetings, he calls the plays, they follow his direction;etc. This isn't like this is his first year here, either. I don't expect the GSOT offense but I do expect to be better than the product that we get on Sundays.

Schotty doesn't get a pass - he does bear a lot of this responsibility. It's not like this was some amazing offense when Bradford was healthy either