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Bountygate

Discussion in 'RAMS - NFL TALK' started by bluecoconuts, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. Stranger How big is infinity?

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    Re: Question for the board

    In 50 years the NFL will be able to replace existing players with robots, and Goodell will get the player safety that he's supposedly so concerned about. I guess then, the NFL will get it's 20+ game season after all :)
     
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  2. RamBall Well-Known Member

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    Re: Question for the board

    In one sentence?

    It is not about either it is a PR move by Goodell to make the public believe he is interested in player safety, but it has nothing to do with safety as he isnt targeting teams or players that flagarantly delivered illegal hits.
     
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  3. Anonymous Guest

    Re: Question for the board

    That doesn't make sense to me.

    How does saying "we will eliminate coach sponsored bounties that break league rules" change a thing about how the game is played?

    I think it's the reverse. In the midst of concern about player safety, you just can't ignore a coach-sponsored illegal bounty system.

    But imagine this. Next time a defender launches a late helmet to helmet hit, would it do anything to say "don't do that cause look what we did to Greg Wms on the bounty issue!" The player would rightly say "uh, this has nothing to do with bounties. So why are you bringing that up."
     
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  4. Angry Ram aka Captain RAmerica aka the OG Rammer

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    Re: Question for the board

    Yeah, for me it goes way beyond the rule book. Rules are there, just like personal fouls or smack talkin refs. But bounties are another issue entirely. I made this analogy before, its like the players gettin these bounties are hunters. Actually, the players are poachers, just like the sickos killing rhinos just for the horns. Yeah I know, one is a football injury and the other is the death of an animal, but the point is clear.

    How many times have we heard by former/current players and announcers that the NFL players are in a fraternity, and that they all respect each other. Remember when that Bills player got paralyzed and of course Jason Smith this year? Both times and other serious injuries players from both teams were concerned and prayed together. It's unity. And when players get paid to purposefully endanger one's career and/or life, well it kinda pisses on the whole fraternity thing.
     
    #184
  5. Yamahopper Well-Known Member

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    Re: Question for the board

    When you give Goodell a big F'u by ignoring his orders you get the hammer.
     
    #185
  6. -X- I'm the dude, man.

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    Re: Question for the board

    I think what 503 is saying is that Goodell is just using the legality of the issue to further his player safety agenda. Goodell, I think, is going to tie the two issues together by using the non-contract bonuses rule as his warrant, and then use the player-safety aspect of it as his gavel.
     
    #186
  7. Stranger How big is infinity?

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    my vote for best answer
     
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  8. Selassie I H. I. M.

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    Excellant post. So True.
     
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  9. RamFan503 Grill and Brew Master

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    Re: Question for the board

    In a few words... It doesn't. Where did I say or hint towards that?

    I'm not sure where you are coming from here. I think Warner4 hits it on the head as well. He [W4Prez] uses the term legacy and that is IMO much of what this is really about.

    Much like Rozelle had the formation of the current NFL, Monday Night Football, and Superbowl, Tagliabue's legacy was expansion and enhanced TV revenue... Goodell views his legacy as safety and the 18 game season IMO. Safety is his crusade - and a legacy he hopes to leave.

    I'm not saying that player safety is a bad thing - far from it. What I'm saying is that every crusade or campaign needs a poster child - I give you Greg Williams.

    No matter what the NFL does to Williams, I can never imagine a player giving him a first - let alone a second thought when he is ready to lay down the hammer on a QB or any other player. That's part of what makes this whole thing so ludicrous. And also why I think it is almost entirely about legacy and a crusade and not about the idea that Williams did something abhorrent. The NFL and Goodell is pushing an agenda here and as a fan, I am not fooled.
     
    #189
  10. RamFan503 Grill and Brew Master

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    gunna second that.
     
    #190
  11. -X- I'm the dude, man.

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    Re: Question for the board

    I agree with that. There's really no reading between the lines here either. Goodell came right out and said that there are two issues with this investigation, and one of them is absolutely player safety. Specifically:

    "The payments here are particularly troubling because they involved not just payments for 'performance,' but also for injuring opposing players," Commissioner Roger Goodell said Friday in a statement. "The bounty rule promotes two key elements of NFL football: player safety and competitive integrity."

    Also, league rep Greg Aiello said in an email to The Associated Press that the NFL will be "addressing the issues raised as part of our responsibility to protect player safety and the integrity of the game." When further asked if they would be looking at other teams that Williams was with, or any other teams in general, he added that the NFL will look at "any relevant info regarding rules being broken," saying that is "standard procedure." So to me it sounds like investigating rules being broken is "standard op", but claims of intentionally trying to injure other players is a bit more important to the league.
     
    #191
  12. -X- I'm the dude, man.

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    Rams Say Gregg Williams Has Been Cooperative With NFL Investigation

    http://tracking.si.com/2012/03/09/rams- ... stigation/

    St. Louis Rams defensive coordinator Gregg Williams is headed for a serious penalty after admitting to running a bounty program during his time with the New Orleans Saints, but maybe he’ll get some time off for good behavior. The Rams say that Williams is cooperating with the NFL’s investigation, according to the Associated Press.

    “Coach Williams has shown contrition for his actions and continues to cooperate with the NFL in this investigation,” Rams chief operating officer Kevin Demoff said in a statement to the AP today. “Out of respect for the NFL’s ongoing process, we will refrain from commenting until the league has come to a final decision on all aspects of this matter.”

    Williams is facing a possible suspension and fine after admitting that he ran a bounty pool of up to $50,000 with the Saints. Meanwhile, he’s keeping busy in his new role with the Rams, preparing for free agency next week, followed by pre- and post-draft minicamps.
     
    #192
  13. Anonymous Guest

    Re: Question for the board

    I've read threads where people didn't know there was a rule.

    BUT while the safety issue may drive the penalty, and who knows, there is nothing to investigate without the rule-breaking.

    Without the rule-breaking all you've got is...some football games.

    And with the rule-breaking you have coaches offering bounties on injury hits.

    That can't be tolerated under any conditions, whether there's a safety drive on or not.

    I mean think about it. Yes the 2009 playoffs started this, with the way Saints players went after Favre. But without a bounty rule, what do they have to investigate? Then add to that the fact that if that kind of hitting is attributed to a coach's bounty, it goes over the top in terms of how seriously you take it.

    Though, again, without a bounty rule, all they have on the Saints/Vikes game is some fines for late hits and no coaching suspensions.
     
    #193
  14. RamFan503 Grill and Brew Master

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    Re: Question for the board

    On that - I can't agree more.

    I'd agree with that as well. I don't buy the idea that there are that many out there that don't know there was a rule violation - I suppose you can always find some ostriches out there somewhere.

    But it is pretty much what I am saying. Without the possible quest for injuries, there is no story and no reason to hang him for all to see. Without the possible rule violation, there is no recourse.

    So tell me... what drives the truck?
     
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  15. Anonymous Guest

    Re: Question for the board

    I responded regularly to people who did not know there was a rule OR didn't get the rule. And got tired of it. Believe me there not only were people who were oblivious to the existence of a rule, there were people who actually said "there's a rule? what rule?" And the reason for that is simple. The reporting tended to downplay the existence of a rule. Had nothing to do with being an "ostrich." It had to do with how people responded.

    I am talking about the entire Rams net now. You remember all the posts about how fans just don't want to see big hits but violence was part of the game? That stuff was all completely rule-ignorant. Then there were people, including Bernie, who tried to argue that this was no big deal because if you look at the Saints they didn't have an inordinate record for illegal hits. Doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. The offer of a non-contractual reward alone breaks league rules, whether or not it ever results in anything.

    Nothing about the game will change if this rule is enforced. Players will be players. BUT the league cannot tolerate coaches offering non-contractual rewards, up to and including bounties--and, again for emphasis, there doesn't have to be an injury or a pay-out for the rule to be violated. The offer alone suffices.

    And I reverse your formula. Injuries didn't drive this. Breaking the rule drove this. In fact the release that the league put out initially focused on the illegal nature of the bounty system, not on illegal hits or players being carted off.

    The league knows it can legislate improper hits in other ways (as it has been doing). The problem with coaches getting involved in non-contractual rewards is an entire problem in its own right and the league approached it as an entire problem in its own right.
     
    #195
  16. Yamahopper Well-Known Member

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    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -bounties/

    Rams’ Brady Poppinga rips Gregg Williams over bounties

    Posted by Michael David Smith on March 9, 2012, 4:04 AM EST

    Reuters
    Linebacker Brady Poppinga and defensive coordinator Gregg Williams are both currently under contract to the Rams, although it’s not clear whether either one of them will be with the team for much longer. That’s just as well, because Poppinga doesn’t have much respect for Williams.

    Poppinga, who becomes a free agent next week, says that Williams, who may be suspended for running a bounty program with the Saints, did something “degrading,” “animalistic” and “repulsive” in orchestrating bounties in New Orleans.

    “I just can’t sit there and be silent,” Poppinga told Alex Marvez of FOXSports.com. “I look at this as an opportunity to share with the public that we, as football players, are not barbaric and out to try and destroy everything in our path. Football is my profession and I take it seriously. It’s an art form. It’s technical, strategic and takes a lot of intelligence to play. When this came out, it started to confirm the idea that football guys are idiots. That’s not who we are. Ninety-five percent of the guys are very intelligent. It’s just guys who love to go out and play a physical game.”

    Poppinga said he doesn’t like the message that the bounty scandal sends.

    “It’s a huge problem in society not knowing how to compete with the right perspective,” Poppinga said.

    As for whether Poppinga has any future on the Rams’ defense, where he started 12 games last season, Poppinga said he’s not worried about that.

    “If they’re not going to want me on the team because of that, that’s fine,” Poppinga said.

    ==============================================================================

    So I guess the SAM will be up for grabs in training camp.
     
    #196
  17. Selassie I H. I. M.

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    Poppinga is such a Kook .
     
    #197
  18. RamFan503 Grill and Brew Master

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    Re: Question for the board

    Refer to the quote by Goodell as stated in X's post directly above.
     
    #198
  19. bwdenverram Well-Known Member

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    Re: Question for the board

    Safety.. BUT can someone please school me on the whole "legal" issue because that part I don't get. I keep hearing everyone say it's a legal issue. I understand in the NFL rules and guidelines were broke. It's been stated compensating any player outside of contracts is not allowed but when people say it's illegal I think the law or government. Since the NFL in essence is a corporation, what they did was violate company rules. So although the NFL can fine, suspend or maybe even fire for these violations, to my knowledge they can't go to jail for what they did. So I ask, how is it illegal then? I'm not a lawyer so I'm really asking this. Is it just words everyone is using or how is it really illegal? If it was truly "illegal" wouldn't this be beyond just an NFL investigation? Roger Goodell isn't working for the USDA office last I checked.
     
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  20. Anonymous Guest

    Re: Question for the board

    I did. Then wrote what I wrote.
     
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