Blocking scheme and it's potential role in the HC hire

[Merlin]

Looking at these coordinator types it occurred to me that their preferred blocking scheme might have an impact on which of them end up being our head coach. While the Rams do have some guys that look to be good fits in a ZBS, I suspect (as has been discussed here quite often) they would be best suited to run a more conventional power scheme. So using the top three OCs that the Rams have requested interviews with:

Shanahan obviously runs the ZBS. Not that I think that will work against him too much given his excellent resume, but going in to the interview I presume his plan will include drafting some OL which the Rams might not want to hear, depending on what they think of their current OL. As an aside, Denver has all sorts of issues with their OL and are planning on restacking it anyway, and Elway is reportedly hot on Shanny Jr, so I suspect things might align to not favor him getting the Rams job.

McDaniels with his Patriots background should be more versed in the power game, and the Pats love to trap and wham with well-disguised looks that confuse DL keys. Read an article on this a couple years ago but couldn't find it, but either way I would presume his plan for the run game will be viewed as a nice fit for the Rams' personnel up front.

McVay is the most interesting of the three because he is undoubtedly well-versed in the ZBS from his days under Mike Shanahan, but has also worked with Callahan during his install of more of a power run game in Washington. Callahan has always been quoted as saying he tailors his scheme to players, but does seem to favor the power game and I would assume McVay will as well.

 

[Yamahopper]

The HC with his hire of the OC sets the blocking scheme and they adapt the personnel to fit it.

 

[12intheBox]

I really hope they pick the best coach they can find and then get the right pieces put in place to work their system. It would be a mistake to choose a coach based on what players are currently on the roster.

 

[Rambitious1]

Rams power blocking scheme...?
What would they use for power?

 

[Dieter the Brock]

I really hope they pick the best coach they can find and then get the right pieces put in place to work their system. It would be a mistake to choose a coach based on what players are currently on the roster.

Yes - With the exception of Goff i think

 

[FRO]

On defense the Rams have to run a 4-3 because of Donald. On offense there is nobody that is good enough to warrant a certain scheme. The canvas is blank.

 

[Merlin]

On defense the Rams have to run a 4-3 because of Donald. On offense there is nobody that is good enough to warrant a certain scheme. The canvas is blank.

I hope that is not true.

Way I see it some pieces for the future are there. The backfield is set with Goff and Gurley. Tavon is a complementary piece and big play capable player. Higbee is going to be a plus starter in my estimation. Cooper will be solid or better as a possession option. OL needs the most help but has some young pieces, probably two, who will be around for the next few years. And the two I think will stick, Havenstein and Brown, are both best served by a power scheme.

All of them probably won't pan out, but if I am a prospective coach those are the guys I would expect to be a part of things moving forward. Draft a Center, add a FA OG and wideout, and with better coaching things might look much different. They just gotta kick things off this offseason by killing the hires at HC and GM.

 

[BonifayRam]

Looking at these coordinator types it occurred to me that their preferred blocking scheme might have an impact on which of them end up being our head coach. While the Rams do have some guys that look to be good fits in a ZBS, I suspect (as has been discussed here quite often) they would be best suited to run a more conventional power scheme. So using the top three OCs that the Rams have requested interviews with:

Shanahan obviously runs the ZBS. Not that I think that will work against him too much given his excellent resume, but going in to the interview I presume his plan will include drafting some OL which the Rams might not want to hear, depending on what they think of their current OL. As an aside, Denver has all sorts of issues with their OL and are planning on restacking it anyway, and Elway is reportedly hot on Shanny Jr, so I suspect things might align to not favor him getting the Rams job.

McDaniels with his Patriots background should be more versed in the power game, and the Pats love to trap and wham with well-disguised looks that confuse DL keys. Read an article on this a couple years ago but couldn't find it, but either way I would presume his plan for the run game will be viewed as a nice fit for the Rams' personnel up front.

McVay is the most interesting of the three because he is undoubtedly well-versed in the ZBS from his days under Mike Shanahan, but has also worked with Callahan during his install of more of a power run game in Washington. Callahan has always been quoted as saying he tailors his scheme to players, but does seem to favor the power game and I would assume McVay will as well.

Most know this but its just a friendly reminder to go with our young Merlin

Zone blocking is a technique that is a simple and effective scheme for creating lanes for running plays. In a zone blocking scheme, fleet-footedness and athletic ability trump size as desirable qualities in offensive linemen. Coordination and technique matter more than muscle in implementing a successful scheme because defensive linemen are often double-teamed at the point of attack. In this blocking scheme, which takes much from the Veer blocking system, creating movement on the defensive line is more important than opening a specific hole in the defense.

Can you name any of the 11 signed Ram OL'ers who have what a full time full blown ZBS skills & talents that it demands? I believe we have 2 or maybe 3 but thats it. Demetrius Rhaney & OT Rodger Saffold? Maybe OT Pace Murphy. Can you offer up any other OL considerations? Its doubtful that Saffold will be here. Man that would be one heck of a FIRESALE :fuelfire:of Ram young OL'ers.

 

[Austin]

I think we're all aching to get this albatross of an offensive scheme removed from our necks.

To the point that our talent doesn't warrant any special scheme hire, I agree, though following the hire, you would expect a good head coach and OC to adjust his schemes to fit some of the important personnel that won't be replaced immediately. I think in this case, that means Goff and Gurley, with a general picture of our offensive line also being taken into account. Now, I would say that the more current personnel a coordinator/coach can take advantage of, the better. If this guy has a plan for Tavon, that's awesome. If he knows exactly what to do with Greg Robinson to set him up for success, that would be incredible. If he looks at Cooper, Mike Thomas, and Higbee, and sees ways their particular talents will be set into advantageous positions, that is excellent. Again, the sort of offensive scheme a given coach runs ought not to stop us from hiring someone; whether or not that coach has shown the ability to mutate and stretch that scheme to include his personnel is more important.

On the defensive side, You look at our linebacker corps and think we pretty much have to run a 4-3/4-2-5, but again, if a coach has a plan on how to get this defense performing another way, I don't think we're a team that's shown enough to deny him. Can Donald play DE in a 3-4 front? I don't see why not. We currently do drop passrushers into coverage at times, so it might be that we've got guys who can adapt to playing linebacker, roles in which they occasionally will be asked to go with the tight-end or runningback.

I'm confident our personnel is much better than Papa Fisher and his zany cast of coaches has been able to make them appear. What will matter is if the new coach feels inspired by them, and if they feel inspired by him.

 

[Merlin]

Can't believe I used the wrong "its" in the thread title. Can someone fix that for me?

 

[bubbaramfan]

Whoever the Rams hire, a discussion on what to do with the OL has to be a high priority. If the Rams are to improve win total it has to start with the OL. The future HC is going to have a lot of work to do and will need a proven OL coach in mind when he comes in.

 

[TheDYVKX]

Most know this but its just a friendly reminder to go with our young Merlin

Zone blocking is a technique that is a simple and effective scheme for creating lanes for running plays. In a zone blocking scheme, fleet-footedness and athletic ability trump size as desirable qualities in offensive linemen. Coordination and technique matter more than muscle in implementing a successful scheme because defensive linemen are often double-teamed at the point of attack. In this blocking scheme, which takes much from the Veer blocking system, creating movement on the defensive line is more important than opening a specific hole in the defense.

Can you name any of the 11 signed Ram OL'ers who have what a full time full blown ZBS skills & talents that it demands? I believe we have 2 or maybe 3 but thats it. Demetrius Rhaney & OT Rodger Saffold? Maybe OT Pace Murphy. Can you offer up any other OL considerations? Its doubtful that Saffold will be here. Man that would be one heck of a FIRESALE :fuelfire:of Ram young OL'ers.

I think Rob Havenstein would still do well in a pure ZBS. He did pretty well last year. If you look at Kyle Shanahan's OL right now, you'll see RT Ryan Schraeder at 6-7 300 pounds. Rob Havenstein is basically just a heavier version of that at 6-7 321. All he has to do is lose a little weight, and he'll be exactly what Shanahan is looking for. He's surprisingly mobile as is.

 

[MTRamsFan]

There are three types of zone running plays: Inside Zone [between the tackles] (IZ), Outside Zone [just outside the tackle and inside the TE] (OZ) and Stretch [outside the TE]

For each type of zone there are many different blocking schemes used:

• The most basic scheme has the offensive linemen identify whether he is covered or uncovered. If uncovered, he is asked to help play-side on a double team by using wide lateral steps or even bucket steps. The resulting double team then reacts to the movement of the linemen as well as the movement of the linebacker. The initial movement of the double teams helps to equalize defensive talent and creates cutback lanes.

• Another scheme has the offensive linemen to imagine a "railroad track" parallel to the running backs path and block everything they find on their way. This could be a linebacker, but also a slanting defensive linemen from somewhere else.

• Starting from either inside or outside, some offensive lines always pair two on one and use a fullback to block the remaining defender outside. This makes it necessary for the offensive linemen to use a variety of line-splits and steps.

• By using a counting system some offenses try to eliminate unfavorable match-ups that can be the result of unusual defensive alignment. This is often used in conjunction with other schemes.

• For outside zone plays teams might use a scheme called Pin & Pull. The linemen do not step play-side, but try to "pin" a backside defensive linemen, while the next backside offensive linemen pulls around the block and up to a track to the second level.

To me, using a ZBS does not get the initial push up field, rather, it slides horizontally, and is supposed to create natural cutback lanes if the play-side isn't open. With the type of guys we have, we should be using a traditional blocking scheme where they match up and combo block from the d-line to the linebackers, etc. We have big physical lineman who don't have great feet, as witnessed this year. It seems our coaches were not able to recognize what type of blockers we had, and didn't develop blocking schemes to match their abilities which is a major part of the failure. Again, its the "square peg in the round hole" philosophy. You don't draft a "mauler" to block in a ZBS, rather you need athletic guys with good feet and the smarts to understand the overall scheme. In a traditional blocking scheme, your guys can line up and block the guys in front of them and combo block to the next level.

However, I also think the collective intelligence factor of our o-line is low. I don't think they communicate very well together. There were many times guys on the backside left a defender unblocked not knowing if he was the closet threat which allowed the defender to run free into the backfield. How many times did we see our backs getting destroyed in the backfield just after taking the hand off? It seems like there was too much confusion between all our o-lineman including the tight-ends. If we don't have an intelligent group of guys, they need to employ a simpler blocking scheme which to me would be more of a traditional one.

The intelligence factor was shown when we passed the ball too. I can't count how many times I would see guys "latching" onto their guy and if there was a stunt by the defense, they were hard pressed to see it and adjust.

Robinson has a huge problem pass blocking in space because he has such poor feet and technique which caused all the holding calls. Havenstein has been hampered with a bad foot, which only made things worse on the right side. Hopefully, he gets healthy this off-season. The interior three should have been the most stable part of our o-line, but it was a constant revolving door with the guards as to who played each week. There was no ability to develop continuity between them. I'm not sold on Barnes being our center going into 2017, and Saffold's continued injuries are not helping develop a total unit. Whoever the new HC will be, his hiring of our next o-line coach is about as important as the OC from an offensive prospective.

 

[RamBall]

On defense the Rams have to run a 4-3 because of Donald. On offense there is nobody that is good enough to warrant a certain scheme. The canvas is blank.

Donald could play DE in a 3-4, but the Rams lack depth at LB so would need to pick up a few to run a 3-4. Will the next DC play Barron at WLB/ OLB or as a S?

 

[Mackeyser]

On defense the Rams have to run a 4-3 because of Donald. On offense there is nobody that is good enough to warrant a certain scheme. The canvas is blank.

I disagree. I think a creative DC could use AD as a 1 gap DE like they use JJ Watt. Not every DE in a 3-4 is a 2 gap space eater...

JJ Watt is often playing a 1 gap in the 5, 7 or even wide 9. You don't use as many swim or rip moves as he does if you're trying to play a 2 gap role...