Billy D and Bernie M

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[rp3]http://icestream.dev-cms.com:8000/stl/2012/06/06252012120716.mp3[/rp3]

 

[Stranger]

Always enjoy listening to BD. But more than curious why he ducked the Jabara Williams question.

 

[-X-]

Always enjoy listening to BD. But more than curious why he ducked the Jabara Williams question.

I don't think he did. He wasn't on board with Jabara getting cut, and that's not his call anyway.

What is Jabara doing these days anyway? I know he's with the Bears and all, but is he a highly regarded prospect over there? I honestly don't know, and he gets a lot of air-time for someone that was a 7th round pick and isn't making any noise anywhere. Was he that special?

 

[Username]

Things may have not worked out, but I have no doubt that Billy worked his ass off here trying and always had the team and city in his best interest.

Best of luck to him. I would enjoy hearing his opinion on stuff if he comes back onto Bernies show time to time.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Always enjoy listening to BD. But more than curious why he ducked the Jabara Williams question.

I don't think he did. He wasn't on board with Jabara getting cut, and that's not his call anyway.

What is Jabara doing these days anyway? I know he's with the Bears and all, but is he a highly regarded prospect over there? I honestly don't know, and he gets a lot of air-time for someone that was a 7th round pick and isn't making any noise anywhere. Was he that special?

5 games, 2 tackles (1 solo, 1 assisted).

 

[libertadrocks]

Always enjoy listening to BD. But more than curious why he ducked the Jabara Williams question.

I don't think he did. He wasn't on board with Jabara getting cut, and that's not his call anyway.

What is Jabara doing these days anyway? I know he's with the Bears and all, but is he a highly regarded prospect over there? I honestly don't know, and he gets a lot of air-time for someone that was a 7th round pick and isn't making any noise anywhere. Was he that special?

I was unhappy with the decision at the time, but Jabara hasnt done anything of note in Chicago. He'll most likely be cut in camp. He probably isnt anything special. Its a tough situation for any GM in that position. If you cut a young guy and made the correct decision(lack of ability) to do so, fans rag on you for a year or so. If you were wrong and cut a guy with ability it becomes a scar on your resume.

 

[Stranger]

Always enjoy listening to BD. But more than curious why he ducked the Jabara Williams question.

I don't think he did. He wasn't on board with Jabara getting cut, and that's not his call anyway.

What is Jabara doing these days anyway? I know he's with the Bears and all, but is he a highly regarded prospect over there? I honestly don't know, and he gets a lot of air-time for someone that was a 7th round pick and isn't making any noise anywhere. Was he that special?

Here's what BD said in response to the Jabara question...

"I'm a firm believer that there is stuff that goes on behind closed doors that I'd rather stay behind closed doors", Billy Devany.

My earlier post was in reference to this specific comment, as I'm curious what went on behind closed doors that Billy still feels he cannot discuss. I'm not really questioning where releasing Jabara was a good move or not, I'm just interested in the content that Billy can not discuss.

 

[-X-]

Always enjoy listening to BD. But more than curious why he ducked the Jabara Williams question.

I don't think he did. He wasn't on board with Jabara getting cut, and that's not his call anyway.

What is Jabara doing these days anyway? I know he's with the Bears and all, but is he a highly regarded prospect over there? I honestly don't know, and he gets a lot of air-time for someone that was a 7th round pick and isn't making any noise anywhere. Was he that special?

Here's what BD said in response to the Jabara question...

"I'm a firm believer that there is stuff that goes on behind closed doors that I'd rather stay behind closed doors", Billy Devany.

My earlier post was in reference to this specific comment, as I'm curious what went on behind closed doors that Billy still feels he cannot discuss. I'm not really questioning where releasing Jabara was a good move or not, I'm just interested in the content that Billy can not discuss.

Yeah, I know. He's probably referring to the conversation he and Spags had regarding that player (and probably a few others). I agree with him in that it's really nobody's business but theirs when it comes to things like that.

 

[DR RAM]

Always enjoy listening to BD. But more than curious why he ducked the Jabara Williams question.

I don't think he did. He wasn't on board with Jabara getting cut, and that's not his call anyway.

What is Jabara doing these days anyway? I know he's with the Bears and all, but is he a highly regarded prospect over there? I honestly don't know, and he gets a lot of air-time for someone that was a 7th round pick and isn't making any noise anywhere. Was he that special?

Here's what BD said in response to the Jabara question...

"I'm a firm believer that there is stuff that goes on behind closed doors that I'd rather stay behind closed doors", Billy Devany.

My earlier post was in reference to this specific comment, as I'm curious what went on behind closed doors that Billy still feels he cannot discuss. I'm not really questioning where releasing Jabara was a good move or not, I'm just interested in the content that Billy can not discuss.

Yeah, I know. He's probably referring to the conversation he and Spags had regarding that player (and probably a few others). I agree with him in that it's really nobody's business but theirs when it comes to things like that.

He's a class act and didn't want to throw anybody named Spags under the buss. He did say it was a terrible decision, and I, this is my opinion, think that if Devaney would have made that decision or agreed with it, he would have owned up to it.

I've said this a couple times and maybe it bears repeating, maybe it doesn't, but it is my true belief that Spags and Devaney were not on the same page their final year. Devaney brought in a lot of young players and clearly wanted to continue rebuilding though the draft. I still remember how he was gushing about some of his finds, just hours before they got cut, and then he was clearly disappointed.

It appeared as if Spagnuolo wanted to win now, and I can't blame him. He probably thought he needed to win to keep his job. I am one who looks for sustainability, and I can be patient when watching something being built the right way. I think the Rams were going in the right direction until last year.

Ultimately, I think that the reason they were fired is because they were not on the same page, and of course, the perfect storm and all.

As far as the current state of the Rams, it's nobody's fault and it everybody's fault.

Jabara, maybe we will hear from him, maybe not, but I think he will stick in the NFL. He was picked up by the Bears for depth and special teams, not as a starter, so he really hasn't had that opportunity to shine. My questioning the move wasn't about whether he was good enough to crack the Bears linebacking core, but whether it was worth the gamble to lose him over Poppinga, or Leber, or Kehl.

 

[Anonymous]

The Williams thing is easy and came up when it happened.

Spags has final say over the roster. They were in an injury bind where they both had to sign a replacement AND keep the injured guy around for when he got better. That means someone had to go. Spags thought he could sneak Wms. through waivers and put him on the ps. BD did not agree.

He keeps it behind closed doors because it would mean throwing spags under the bus. Maybe demoff too.

I complained about Spags cutting Wms when it happened BUT I also know that they replaced Jabara almost immediately with a practice squad raid and that that replacement is still on the roster.

Wagoner

Signed last year, Justin Cole is a young player with some intriguing upside and special teams value. He can play either outside position (though he spent most of his time on the weak side in the offseason) and will compete for a roster spot in camp

 

[Selassie I]

I've just got to get this off my chest. I will feel better if I do,,, well, I might feel a little better if I do.

I never had a good feeling about BD. It started for me with the way he was brought into the organization. BD was hired by shaw, and shaw hired him much to the dislike of Zyg (Jim Thomas explained this during one of his Q and A's when I asked him about BD's hiring). Dysfunction from the very beginning,,, it doesn't surprise me to find out that there was dysfunction in the end (not being on the same page as Spags being part of the dysfunction).

Anyway, BD sure needed to clarify some things about the first interview. There can be several interpretations drawn from the need for the clarifications,,, mine wouldn't be a popular one to discuss with most of you, so I'm just going to stay away from that. It's water under the bridge now.

In looking forward,,, the manner in which the new regime was put together is much different than what has happened in the recent past. A solid and clean start is important in most things IMHO. Stan has spared no expense in getting his new coaching staff and FO put in place. Fisher and Co did't come cheap , and I do believe a staff like we now have was simply not in Chip and Lucia's budget. Not saying they skimped on Spags and his staff, but there is a huge difference between the costs of both crews for a reason.

I wish Billy well, he seams like a great guy to have a beer with :hehe: ... but I have to admit that I'm overjoyed he's no longer making decisions for the Rams.

 

[Anonymous]

I've just got to get this off my chest. I will feel better if I do,,, well, I might feel a little better if I do.

I never had a good feeling about BD. It started for me with the way he was brought into the organization. BD was hired by shaw, and shaw hired him much to the dislike of Zyg (Jim Thomas explained this during one of his Q and A's when I asked him about BD's hiring). Dysfunction from the very beginning,,, it doesn't surprise me to find out that there was dysfunction in the end (not being on the same page as Spags being part of the dysfunction).

BD did fine and I dont' get the kind of criticism that is heaped on him.

And there was no "dysfunction at the end." The peg that particular speculation gets hung on is that BD didn't like a 7th round pick pick being waived for the practice squad. I mean, that's dysfunction comparable to the genuine mayhem Zygmunt wrought?

There';s no "there" there. And no one got along with Zygmunt--he was an over his head incompetent and back-biter.

On top of it, while I complained about the Wms cut at the time, I also know that they replaced Jabara almost immediately with a practice squad raid and that that replacement is still on the roster.

Wagoner

Signed last year, Justin Cole is a young player with some intriguing upside and special teams value. He can play either outside position (though he spent most of his time on the weak side in the offseason) and will compete for a roster spot in camp

 

[DR RAM]

I've just got to get this off my chest. I will feel better if I do,,, well, I might feel a little better if I do.

I never had a good feeling about BD. It started for me with the way he was brought into the organization. BD was hired by shaw, and shaw hired him much to the dislike of Zyg (Jim Thomas explained this during one of his Q and A's when I asked him about BD's hiring). Dysfunction from the very beginning,,, it doesn't surprise me to find out that there was dysfunction in the end (not being on the same page as Spags being part of the dysfunction).

BD did fine and I dont' get the kind of criticism that is heaped on him.

And there was no "dysfunction at the end." The peg that particular speculation gets hung on is that BD didn't like a 7th round pick pick being waived for the practice squad. I mean, that's dysfunction comparable to the genuine mayhem Zygmunt wrought?

There';s no "there" there. And no one got along with Zygmunt--he was an over his head incompetent and back-biter.

On top of it, while I complained about the Wms cut at the time, I also know that they replaced Jabara almost immediately with a practice squad raid and that that replacement is still on the roster.

Wagoner

Signed last year, Justin Cole is a young player with some intriguing upside and special teams value. He can play either outside position (though he spent most of his time on the weak side in the offseason) and will compete for a roster spot in camp

There were way many other things that that happened besides Jabara, but Bernie, who didn't even remember his name, and others bring him up the most. Williams was cut to sign Mark Levoir. Justin Cole was signed about two weeks later after Hoomanawanui and Harris were both declared done for the season.

And...I think there was a level of dysfunction in the end. Between Devaney, Spags, Demoff, and McD, surely there was.

 

[Selassie I]

I've just got to get this off my chest. I will feel better if I do,,, well, I might feel a little better if I do.

I never had a good feeling about BD. It started for me with the way he was brought into the organization. BD was hired by shaw, and shaw hired him much to the dislike of Zyg (Jim Thomas explained this during one of his Q and A's when I asked him about BD's hiring). Dysfunction from the very beginning,,, it doesn't surprise me to find out that there was dysfunction in the end (not being on the same page as Spags being part of the dysfunction).

BD did fine and I dont' get the kind of criticism that is heaped on him.

And there was no "dysfunction at the end." The peg that particular speculation gets hung on is that BD didn't like a 7th round pick pick being waived for the practice squad. I mean, that's dysfunction comparable to the genuine mayhem Zygmunt wrought?

There';s no "there" there. And no one got along with Zygmunt--he was an over his head incompetent and back-biter.

On top of it, while I complained about the Wms cut at the time, I also know that they replaced Jabara almost immediately with a practice squad raid and that that replacement is still on the roster.

Wagoner

Signed last year, Justin Cole is a young player with some intriguing upside and special teams value. He can play either outside position (though he spent most of his time on the weak side in the offseason) and will compete for a roster spot in camp

One can't deny that BD and Spags seemed to completely change the rebuilding plan before last year. Whether they were on the same page at the end will apparently always be a mystery.

The 7th round LB was just a small piece of it,,, we went from a young team to one of the oldest in one off-season. Totally threw out the WCO for the hopes of catching some Patriot offense in a McD bottle. These things were done out of desperation in my eyes. Sadly, they had reason to be desperate but it was nobody's fault but their own. Maybe a better "D" word would be desperate. I still see dysfunction in it though.

Just my opinion as an outsider looking in.

 

[Lesson]

One can't deny that BD and Spags seemed to completely change the rebuilding plan before last year. Whether they were on the same page at the end will apparently always be a mystery.

The 7th round LB was just a small piece of it,,, we went from a young team to one of the oldest in one off-season. Totally threw out the WCO for the hopes of catching some Patriot offense in a McD bottle. These things were done out of desperation in my eyes. Sadly, they had reason to be desperate but it was nobody's fault but their own. Maybe a better "D" word would be desperate. I still see dysfunction in it though.

Just my opinion as an outsider looking in.

What did the Rams do wrong, per se?

It's unreasonable to expect to a defense to perform at a high level with 10 CBs on IR. The reason why the run D regressed so much last season, I think, was because Robbins regressed. Should they have been prepared for his regression? Yes. Did they try to make up for his regression? Yes, I think so, since Bannan was signed.

Anyways, it's in the past now. Time to move on.

 

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we went from a young team to one of the oldest in one off-season.

Some of that was borne of necessity, but I get your point. Jabara Williams for Ben Leber, in retrospect, would have reduced the age and at worst, provided lateral production. But then you get Grandpa Harris at corner. He would have elevated the age of every team by 4 years. :sly:

 

[Anonymous]

One can't deny that BD and Spags seemed to completely change the rebuilding plan before last year. Whether they were on the same page at the end will apparently always be a mystery.

The 7th round LB was just a small piece of it,,, we went from a young team to one of the oldest in one off-season. Totally threw out the WCO for the hopes of catching some Patriot offense in a McD bottle. These things were done out of desperation in my eyes. Sadly, they had reason to be desperate but it was nobody's fault but their own. Maybe a better "D" word would be desperate. I still see dysfunction in it though.

Just my opinion as an outsider looking in.

No, I can deny that, about changing the plan, cause it;s resolutely not true. AND a point by point analysis of their moves backs that view. The 7th round LB replaced by a practice squad pick up is a story that gets blown out of proportion for reasons I don't understand. It's not representative of anything that I can see.

I also saw no problem with signing MCD...and btw I was one of the first to point out that the offense started the season out of sync and not comfortable in that offense. I said that to a storm of protest that I would criticize McDaniels. But I also said it would catch on.

Why didn't it catch on. Which is the only real issue, when you look at it.

For the one reason that actually holds up in explaining EVERYTHING that really went wrong. A young team lost 10 CBs and was also the single most injured offense in the entire last decade.

They DON'T become the single most injured offense in the entire last decade, and the offense catches on fine. They win games. We have no complaints.

 

[RamFan503]

In looking forward,,, the manner in which the new regime was put together is much different than what has happened in the recent past. A solid and clean start is important in most things IMHO. Stan has spared no expense in getting his new coaching staff and FO put in place. Fisher and Co did't come cheap , and I do believe a staff like we now have was simply not in Chip and Lucia's budget. Not saying they skimped on Spags and his staff, but there is a huge difference between the costs of both crews for a reason.

Completely reasonable as far as I'm concerned. You know it might be a knife fight to the death to determine which one of us hated the Ziggy/Shaw show more. I do think BD did a relatively good job and would have been ok with him staying. That being said, you are exactly correct that this new regime was put together the way you'd like to see your team or company put together. It's one of the reasons I was so jacked when Stan took complete control. No offense to Sahid but I don't think he had the background to pull this off. I guess we'll see but I see big things ahead for the horns.

 

[DR RAM]

I've just got to get this off my chest. I will feel better if I do,,, well, I might feel a little better if I do.

I never had a good feeling about BD. It started for me with the way he was brought into the organization. BD was hired by shaw, and shaw hired him much to the dislike of Zyg (Jim Thomas explained this during one of his Q and A's when I asked him about BD's hiring). Dysfunction from the very beginning,,, it doesn't surprise me to find out that there was dysfunction in the end (not being on the same page as Spags being part of the dysfunction).

BD did fine and I dont' get the kind of criticism that is heaped on him.

And there was no "dysfunction at the end." The peg that particular speculation gets hung on is that BD didn't like a 7th round pick pick being waived for the practice squad. I mean, that's dysfunction comparable to the genuine mayhem Zygmunt wrought?

There';s no "there" there. And no one got along with Zygmunt--he was an over his head incompetent and back-biter.

On top of it, while I complained about the Wms cut at the time, I also know that they replaced Jabara almost immediately with a practice squad raid and that that replacement is still on the roster.

Wagoner

Signed last year, Justin Cole is a young player with some intriguing upside and special teams value. He can play either outside position (though he spent most of his time on the weak side in the offseason) and will compete for a roster spot in camp

One can't deny that BD and Spags seemed to completely change the rebuilding plan before last year. Whether they were on the same page at the end will apparently always be a mystery.

The 7th round LB was just a small piece of it,,, we went from a young team to one of the oldest in one off-season. Totally threw out the WCO for the hopes of catching some Patriot offense in a McD bottle. These things were done out of desperation in my eyes. Sadly, they had reason to be desperate but it was nobody's fault but their own. Maybe a better "D" word would be desperate. I still see dysfunction in it though.

Just my opinion as an outsider looking in.

No, I can deny that, about changing the plan, cause it;s resolutely not true. AND a point by point analysis of their moves backs that view. T[hil]he 7th round LB replaced by a practice squad pick up is a story that gets blown out of proportion for reasons I don't understand.[/hil] It's not representative of anything that I can see.

I also saw no problem with signing MCD...and btw I was one of the first to point out that the offense started the season out of sync and not comfortable in that offense. I said that to a storm of protest that I would criticize McDaniels. But I also said it would catch on.

Why didn't catch on. Which is the only real issue, when you look at it.

For the one reason that actually holds up in explaining EVERYTHING that really went wrong. A young team lost 10 CBs and was also the single most injured offense in the entire last decade.

They DON'T become the single most injured offense in the entire last decade, and the offense catches on fine. They win games. We have no complaints.

Well, that's because it didn't happen that way. Levoir replaced Jabara as I stated earlier. They were trying to sneak him on the PS and it didn't work. He wasn't the only player that we lost that way, Jabara was just the straw for most people. It's never just one thing, but if you don't get it, I get it, no problem.

EVERYBODY knew the offense was out of sync, it was painfully obvious.

 

[-X-]

It's just different opinions. Not a big deal. If someone thinks the plan was altered, it's not possible to convince them that their opinion is wrong. Similarly, if someone thinks the plan was unchanged, but instead circumstances altered the plan, then it's also impossible to convince them that THEIR opinion is wrong. I also think a lot of these discussions would run smoother if prefaced by "I think" or "In my view/opinion." Because, really, that's all these things are.

I can see both sides of this too. You don't go from Shurmur to McDaniels and call it a lateral move that's designed to stay the course. McDaniels isn't interested in playing ball-control offense and tight defense. He's interested in putting points on the board first and foremost. And the team did get older with additions like Bannan, Poppinga, Leber, Al Harris, Mikell, Robbins, Dahl, Lloyd, etc. But that was designed to plug holes and springboard off of the 2010 season, and also to bring in players who could actually fill a hole during the season (tryouts on Tuesday and starting on Sunday doesn't leave room to squabble over age). I don't know how much of that could be construed as a course deviation when nobody complained one bit about it during the 2011 off-season though. In fact, I recall utter exuberance over all the off-season roster moves this team was making.

In the end, it's all just different ideas and opinions flying around. Nobody needs to speak in absolutes about the validity of their own opinion or the perceived fallibility of someone else's. Unless it's me. Because, you know, I'm NEVER wrong about anything. Look it up.