Best DE move to get a sack

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Mackeyser

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Been ruminating on this for awhile.

While the bull rush, swim, spin and dip & rip are all good moves, there's one that I haven't really seen an OT figure out.

I call it the Ghost. It probably has a name and I just don't know it



You can see it at the 0:40 mark.

Edit: it's even more clear on the next play at the :50 sec mark, although it can be hard to catch it because the editing of the clip is so close and it happens so fast.

You can also see up close at the 2:38 mark how he launches, engages, fakes the chuck (although he's really not in a good position to do the move, the OT still falls for it) and then bull rushes the OT literally knocking him down and gets the sack. That's the kind of thing that sets up the Ghost.

Von Miller jumps off the snap with a medium deep route to the QB and he positions himself as if he's going to either bull rush or simply apply straight pressure to collapse the pocket as he might play it on a potential screen or dump off the the RB in the flat where he might need to turn and run.

The OT and Von Miller square up and the OT reaches for Von Miller to initiate contact.

What Von Miller does next is rather extraordinary.

He extends his hands (in this clip its very quick, in others he sets up the OT more deliberately with his hands), but does not engage the OT.

Instead, he extends his arms and then bursts upfield while withdrawing his hands. There's a slight downfield chuck on this play, but I've seen instances where he never actually touches the OT. Because the OT set expecting contact, he's unable to continue kick stepping, set his feet to anchor and is left grasping air. Von Miller simply speeds past him and gets the sack.

This is not a dip and rip or even a variant in that Von Miller doesn't dip. In fact, part of what makes this work is that he stays square the whole time. With a dip and rip, the attacker flips his hips and shoulders perpendicular to the OT, gets his inside arm under the OT's outside arm and uses that leverage to get around the OT. This is different. What really fools the OT is that Miller's extended hands end up being a feint. Von Miller's hands go forward, but his body never stops moving upfield.

Von Miller is quick enough that if the OT doesn't set, he risks Miller bursting inside and being easily defeated with a spin move or being bullrushed and being caught off balance and being driven into the QB.

I saw Demarcus Ware also use this move. I wish Quinn would have learned this. He certainly had the burst for it.

It's simply an amazing move and only a DE with exceptional burst can execute it. What's really interesting about this move is that the defeat of the OT happens almost solely because the hands extend which signal to the OT to initiate contact to hopefully get hands on him and then defeat him. What actually happens is that the extended hands are simply to maintain space and get the OT to set his feet.

Not many DEs or rush OLBs use this move, but every time I see it, I wonder what an OT can do to defend it.

I haven't watched too much Mack, but I don't think I've seen him use this move. I dunno if it's a matter that he plays a more physical 4-3 DE style versus being a speed 3-4 OLB or what.

Anyway, it's a slow time and I wanted to post this before I forgot.
 
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Adi

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I feel that works for von because he is do much quicker than the linemen and most QBs

Quinn only had the 1 move I wish he would fake and go inside with a swim but he always unded up too far outside the tackle .
 

jrry32

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I'm partial to the bull pull, personally. :)
 

Loyal

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Been ruminating on this for awhile.

While the bull rush, swim, spin and dip & rip are all good moves, there's one that I haven't really seen an OT figure out.

I call it the Ghost. It probably has a name and I just don't know it



You can see it at the 0:40 mark.

Edit: it's even more clear on the next play at the :50 sec mark, although it can be hard to catch it because the editing of the clip is so close and it happens so fast.

You can also see up close at the 2:38 mark how he launches, engages, fakes the chuck (although he's really not in a good position to do the move, the OT still falls for it) and then bull rushes the OT literally knocking him down and gets the sack. That's the kind of thing that sets up the Ghost.

Von Miller jumps off the snap with a medium deep route to the QB and he positions himself as if he's going to either bull rush or simply apply straight pressure to collapse the pocket as he might play it on a potential screen or dump off the the RB in the flat where he might need to turn and run.

The OT and Von Miller square up and the OT reaches for Von Miller to initiate contact.

What Von Miller does next is rather extraordinary.

He extends his hands (in this clip its very quick, in others he sets up the OT more deliberately with his hands), but does not engage the OT.

Instead, he extends his arms and then bursts upfield while withdrawing his hands. There's a slight downfield chuck on this play, but I've seen instances where he never actually touches the OT. Because the OT set expecting contact, he's unable to continue kick stepping, set his feet to anchor and is left grasping air. Von Miller simply speeds past him and gets the sack.

This is not a dip and rip or even a variant in that Von Miller doesn't dip. In fact, part of what makes this work is that he stays square the whole time. With a dip and rip, the attacker flips his hips and shoulders perpendicular to the OT, gets his inside arm under the OT's outside arm and uses that leverage to get around the OT. This is different. What really fools the OT is that Miller's extended hands end up being a feint. Von Miller's hands go forward, but his body never stops moving upfield.

Von Miller is quick enough that if the OT doesn't set, he risks Miller bursting inside and being easily defeated with a spin move or being bullrushed and being caught off balance and being driven into the QB.

I saw Demarcus Ware also use this move. I wish Quinn would have learned this. He certainly had the burst for it.

It's simply an amazing move and only a DE with exceptional burst can execute it. What's really interesting about this move is that the defeat of the OT happens almost solely because the hands extend which signal to the OT to initiate contact to hopefully get hands on him and then defeat him. What actually happens is that the extended hands are simply to maintain space and get the OT to set his feet.

Not many DEs or rush OLBs use this move, but every time I see it, I wonder what an OT can do to defend it.

I haven't watched too much Mack, but I don't think I've seen him use this move. I dunno if it's a matter that he plays a more physical 4-3 DE style versus being a speed 3-4 OLB or what.

Anyway, it's a slow time and I wanted to post this before I forgot.


Mack, learn from the GOAT. He's not a substandard DE, He's Aaron freakin Donald! (seriously, watch this it's great)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDscr3H0GIA
 

FaulkSF

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den-the-coach

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Let's keep in simple.....The Counter/Club and if you're ordering at a diner, the Turkey Club.

Counter/Club is a pretty simple inside move to learn. It works as a counter move to those above at QB depth in the backfield. You never want to rush beyond the passer's depth, go even and then counter back inside, because he can step up and throw once you've rushed past him. The End drives the OT back even with the QB, then punches (clubs) the OT's outside arm with his inside arm or grabbing him with his outside arm and yanking him outside. This is meant to force him to shift his weight outside. Then you rip underneath with the outside arm and leg, crossing the Tackle's face while he's shifted outside. Reggie White's "Hump" move is a very similar one to this, White just didn't need to rip every time because he was so strong. He'd fake a speed rush outside and simply club the lineman hard enough that he'd fall over.
 

Tano

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You can see it at the 0:40 mark.

Edit: it's even more clear on the next play at the :50 sec mark, although it can be hard to catch it because the editing of the clip is so close and it happens so fast.
What are you trying to do to me?

Give me nightmares from the memories of the past?

NY Jets 27 Rams 13

I know they came back to respectability but it was still only 7 wins that season
 

Mackeyser

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What are you trying to do to me?

Give me nightmares from the memories of the past?

NY Jets 27 Rams 13

I know they came back to respectability but it was still only 7 wins that season

It's easier to talk about now, I think.

Although, I get what you're saying. It's hard to talk about anything Steven Jackson did because...those Rams teams...
 

Mackeyser

Supernovas are where gold forms; the only place.
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Mack
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Mack, learn from the GOAT. He's not a substandard DE, He's Aaron freakin Donald! (seriously, watch this it's great)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDscr3H0GIA


Actually, AD does a variant of this move on occasion.

After bull rushing a guy super hard, the next snap, AD will burst off the line and the OL will jump back and set. AD extends his hands and then just prior to contact, he continues upfield with a subtle move to one side using an overhand swim move.

It's brilliant because he's using the very technique that the OL is supposed to use against them.

What is the OL supposed to do, not anchor? If the does that, AD runs him straight into the QB. But, if he does anchor, he doesn't have the mobility to deal with the next move.

Again, it only works if the rusher has enough burst such that the OL has to anticipate anchoring because to not anchor early means he's going to lose to a bull rush and not have enough leverage. His pad level will be too high and he'll be defeated on the play.

What's amazing is that AD has the speed and skill to employ such a finesse move on the interior.

The end result to the uninitiated is that AD simply looks like he's running past people or not being blocked.

That's not true. I've seen multiple instances where the OL couldn't have had better technique only to completely whiff on AD as he blazed past for a sack. And the OL can't afford to do any different because he has the strength and pad level to pull rush two OL and STILL get the sack.

The reason guys like AD and Von Miller can get those game ending sacks is because such a move is essentially set up by his relentless quickness and brutal attacks on every play.

Such a move allows them to dial up a critical move for a critical moment and separates them from the mere mortals of the NFL.