Bernie on why Fisher won't consider Martz for OC. I got a few chuckles.

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Mojo Ram

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Six of seven of our front seven draft choices in the first and second rounds not producing a sack didn't hurt this team as bad as a FA QB?
I don't understand the question. Sacks aren't forced turnovers. It's just lack of pressure. FA QB?
And where did those teams rank defensively?
In terms of what? Points allowed? Yards? Forced turnovers?
FWIW easily half the differential was from the defense allowing scores after the turnovers, a third was from trying to recover from deficits yielded by the defense in catch up mode
It's a TEAM statistic, but many of those opponents points came directly from the Rams' offense without our defense even getting on the field. Fumble returns for TD and all the pick 6's.
From my research A.Davis threw 4 pick six INT's. I think S.Hill had a couple. I know we surrendered some forced fumble scoop and scores too. I'll look into the exact numbers and post them.
 

Mojo Ram

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Minnesota- pick six INT
-----------
Dallas-pick six INT
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Philly-Fumble RET
-Blocked punt TD(I don't believe that special teams blunders counts for Net turnover points giveaways)
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SF-pick six INT
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AZ-pick six INT
-Fumble RET
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San Diego-Fumble RET
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Seattle-pick six INT

Total: 48 points
 

Thordaddy

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It's a TEAM statistic, but many of those opponents points came directly from the Rams' offense without our defense even getting on the field. Fumble returns for TD and all the pick 6's.
From my research A.Davis threw 4 pick six INT's. I think S.Hill had a couple. I know we surrendered some forced fumble scoop and scores too. I'll look into the exact numbers and post them.
Where we differ is in that our D was supposed to be doing those things to other offences and at the least made the differential positive for us and we'd spent all those high draft choices in order to do it sacks was just one of the things that are symptomatic of the poor early play and there is a high correlation between sacks and turnovers .
 

Selassie I

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I do think Matrz's larger than life aura played a part in why Vermeil decided to quit because he knew it was give him the job or lose him, but IMO SK's still strong ties to Shaw plays the biggest role and may be a big part in why the team eventually moves.


BINGO
 

Mojo Ram

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Where we differ is in that our D was supposed to be doing those things to other offences and at the least made the differential positive for us and we'd spent all those high draft choices in order to do it sacks was just one of the things that are symptomatic of the poor early play and there is a high correlation between sacks and turnovers .
That's fine.
Yeah we aren't seeing the same thing in terms of impact on the team as a whole, and i strongly believe in opportunistic statistics. The sacks thing(or lack of) was an issue early on, but the points off turnovers was an issue all season long.

The defense forced 25 turnovers which was a decent number, and our offense actually did a decent job of taking advantage of those. Middle of the pack.

The problem as i see it was all the giveaways that directly resulted in points for the opponent, and anytime you turn the ball over you're putting your defense in a bad position. I believe the numbers bear that out pretty clearly.
 

iced

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I do think Matrz's larger than life aura played a part in why Vermeil decided to quit because he knew it was give him the job or lose him, but IMO SK's still strong ties to Shaw plays the biggest role and may be a big part in why the team eventually moves.

Kind of funny how Fisher and Vermeil are in similar spots - Fisher has got to know that another losing season comes with a very real possibility of getting the axe, which is a similar position vermeil was in
 

Merlin

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Amazing.. You all think Martz would be more popular than Fisher as Bernie says? He probably would.. And he would sell tickets.. Stan the man would want that??? lol

If there is concern with Martz and his popularity I would guess it is from the owner's seat, where he would be worried about Martz spiking attendance due to its potential impact on moving efforts.

Fish is so calm and confident I seriously doubt that would concern him at all.
 

dieterbrock

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I think that I have as much chance of being the next Rams OC as Martz does, but with that said I dont understand why the assumption would be that Martz can only run a GSOT offense. He's got a brilliant football mind and he built that offense based on the talent he had. No doubt that if he was given the team he'd work within what he had to work with. But again, I'm sharpening up my resume just in case
 

Dr C. Hill

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If Fisher were to Hire Martz, I would party like it was 1999. It won't happen because it makes too much sense, but how much fun would that be?

Also there isn't a person on this planet more qualified to run an offense than Mike Martz. Fisher is going to have to win some games soon to keep his job. Hiring a legendary coach who knows a thing or 2 about x's and o's sounds like a prudent move to me.
 

paceram

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If nothing else I think Martz would bring some excitement to the Rams offense and fan base! Personally, I would definitely prefer Martz over the candidates the Rams apparently have left for their OC job! It amazes me that the Rams OC job just doesn't seem to be getting much interest from outside coaches? That would seem to be a little concern to me if I was Fisher & Snead!
 

the zohan

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Gotta admit that it would be a hell of a story. Two coaches from opposing teams of Super Bowl XXXIV teaming up 15 years later.
 

Thordaddy

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Kind of funny how Fisher and Vermeil are in similar spots - Fisher has got to know that another losing season comes with a very real possibility of getting the axe, which is a similar position vermeil was in
AND FWIW, Martz was serially hired to save a beleaguered coaches ass
 

Warner4Prez

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That's fine.
The problem as i see it was all the giveaways that directly resulted in points for the opponent, and anytime you turn the ball over you're putting your defense in a bad position. I believe the numbers bear that out pretty clearly.

Bullshit. The defense was the beneficiary. They got to sit on the bench for some extra rest.
 

RamBill

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Bernie: Bring back . . . Mike Martz?
• By Bernie Miklasz

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colu...cle_c370ba7d-7fab-5ff6-ad6c-f9012ef00717.html

You may have noticed that the Rams are struggling to find a qualified individual to fill their vacancy at offensive coordinator.

So it's time to go for the Hail Mary pass ...

Why, hello Mike Martz.

OK, the very thought of Mad Mike returning to St. Louis as OC is so preposterous and incomprehensible on so many levels I know it's wrong to write about it. But I can't help it; I want to go trolling. Blame it on Rams nostalgia.

I'm assuming most readers are familiar with the Martz history in St. Louis. He was truly one of the most creative, innovative, daring, forward-thinking offensive minds in the modern era.

Martz choreographed the "Greatest Show on Turf," the only NFL offense to score 500+ points for three consecutive seasons, 1999 through 2001.

It was the ideal convergence of talent and intellect. Martz had Kurt Warner, Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, Orlando Pace, Az-Hakim, Ricky Proehl and so many others ... and Mad Mike released a scoring frenzy on overwhelmed NFL defenses.

The 1999-2001 Rams averaged 32.7 points per game, went 37-11, won two NFC Championships, and captured Super Bowl 34.

In that three-year stretch of 48 regular-season games, the Rams offense scored 30 or more points 31 times (topping 40 on 12 occasions) and were held to fewer than 15 points only once.

Think about that ... fewer than 15 points in only 1 of 48 games.

That's just crazy.

For context, consider: from 2007 season through 2014, the Rams scored fewer than 15 points in 63 of 128 games — roughly 49 percent.

With Jeff Fisher as head coach the last three seasons, the Rams have scored fewer than 15 points 17 times in 48 games, or 35 percent.

Of course, it the Greatest Show broke up, sooner than expected. But over Martz's six full seasons as the offensive coordinator (1999) or head coach (2000-2004), the Rams led the NFL with an average of 27.6 points per game, and were tied with Philadelphia for the most wins (64.)

Since Martz left the building in 2005 with a serious health issue, the Rams have averaged 17.8 points per game, which ranks 30th among 32 teams. And they rank 31st in the league with 49 wins.

(Yeah, I know that Martz also played a major role in the Rams' demise, so you don't have to send huffy emails or make nasty comments. Of course he made mistakes — big ones — as did everyone in the Rams' front office.)

Overall the Martz Years provided a lot of offense, points, entertainment and non-stop action. His teams could be frustrating, but the Rams were rarely if ever dull.

So you'll have to excuse me for getting a little nostalgic here. I sort of miss seeing things like deep passes, touchdowns, long runs, exotic plays, victories, thrills, playoff games, postseason wins.

The Rams have been so awful and boring for so long, Mad Mike looks even better in retrospect, warts and all.

Remember how so many irate fans would blow a gasket and all but threaten to march to the Edward Jones Dome with pitchforks in hand every time Martz botched a timeout, or made an unwise decision to challenge an officials' call?

Those things don't seem quite so outrageous anymore, eh? We were spoiled as could be. If the present-day Rams hung up 30 points a game and won games on a regular basis, no one would be having convulsions over the poor usage of a timeout.

So the idea of Martz coming back to Rams Park for a second act ...

Well, it's fantasy. It isn't going to happen. And if I'm honest about this, a Martz return doesn't make much sense. Not in a pragmatic way.

Let's review the reasons:

1. Coach Fisher would never agree to allow Martz to run the kind of offense that Martz prefers. Fisher likes leather-helmet football. Martz likes to run complex, dramatic, exotic stuff that would confuse the folks at NASA. This would be possibly the worst philosophical mix in the history of professional sports. And about eight games into it, Fisher and Martz would be throwing punches, and police would be called to Rams Park to haul them away.

2. The Rams don't have the kind of talent to make a Martz offense fly. No Warner, Faulk, Bruce, Holt, etc. Even though I think Martz could move things forward a bit, a poorly manned aerial experiment would crash.

3. If Martz came back to town as the OC, he would immediately become the most popular figure (non-player) at Rams Park. No one else would be close, including Fisher. Do you think that Coach Fisher wants to be upstaged by Martz? Do you think he wants fans pleading for Martz to take over as head coach?

4. If Martz returned to install a Mad Mike offense, the town would be buzzing. The Rams would immediately generate curiosity, excitement, and a higher level of expectation. Even those (like me) who are convinced that a Fisher-Martz coaching union would blow up welcome the chance to watch SOMETHING that's interesting, colorful, risky and perhaps a bit dangerous in that everything-will-go-boom kind of way.

5. And if a Martz hiring pumped up the excitement, the Rams would sell more tickets, and the Dome would have larger crowds in 2015. I know what you are thinking: wait a second, wouldn't an improvement in ticket sales be a positive thing? Under normal circumstances, yes, absolutely. But we live in strange times.

The owner is plotting to move the Rams to Los Angeles for 2016, and I'd venture a guess that the last thing the owner wants is a stimulated STL football audience scooping up more tickets than anticipated.

When (if?) Stan Kroenke proceeds to seek league approval to move the team, part of the strategy will be to convince NFL owners that the Rams are suffering from soft support in St. Louis. So in these circumstances the excitement, the buzz, an upturn in ticket sales, enlivened action, a fresh reason to watch the team, bigger crowds, and momentum to build a new stadium in St. Louis ... well, none of that would be helpful to the owner's case for justifying a move.

Thanks for reading ...

— Bernie
 

Faceplant

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Ugh, that last part sounds eerily familiar to what Georgia did to get the Rams out of LA. I hope for the Stl peeps that Kronke is not pulling the same shit. Actually, I hope for all RAMS fans that he isn't, or it will be a looooong couple of seasons....
 

den-the-coach

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Vermeil was able to control Martz, but that was before Mad Mike's ego got out of control. He worked with three Head Coaches in Mike Singletary, Rod Marinelli and Lovie Smith and IMO the results were not good, but some would counter so let's post the results were checkered at best.

Personally I'm not upset with the in house candidates in Boras or Cignetti, I felt Schotty's biggest area of opportunity was he could not coordinate on the fly once the scripted plays were done that is why the Rams always seem to struggle in the 2nd half because Schottenheimer could not make the proper adjustments and that will follow him to Athens.

Martz is not a viable option and I have liked some of Bernie's stuff in the past, but right now, he's acting like a jilted lover and he totally missed all the signs of relocation and is trying to react to having quite a bit of egg on his face, IMHO.
 

Ballhawk

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We can't bring Martz back! An exciting, winning team isn't worth not having timeouts left after the game is over.:rolleyes:

And possibly would be against the team's plans right now.
 

Ram Quixote

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I don't know why it still has to be said; Kroenke wants the Rams to win. That's why he brought Fisher here. That's why Fisher chose Les Snead. That's why they spent all that money on the assistant coaches. And why they wanted to bring Chud to the Rams as OC.

That we're now left with talking about Martz or an in-house hire is not Kroenke's fault. It's the perception that the Rams aren't a good place for a new OC.

As usual, Bernie has his head up his ass.
 

Rmfnlt

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Well, he was being honest....

"But I can't help it; I want to go trolling.".
 

Dagonet

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
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I don't know why it still has to be said; Kroenke wants the Rams to win. That's why he brought Fisher here. That's why Fisher chose Les Snead. That's why they spent all that money on the assistant coaches. And why they wanted to bring Chud to the Rams as OC.

That we're now left with talking about Martz or an in-house hire is not Kroenke's fault. It's the perception that the Rams aren't a good place for a new OC.

As usual, Bernie has his head up his ass.

?????

As Harry Truman said.. The buck stops here.. Why does that make Kroenke any different? The emperor has clothes on eh? :)

And I'm sorry, but if they really wanted Chud, he would be here.. Money talks.. Also happiness talks. Why isn't Chud here? Just asking is all.