Baseball 2017

[bnw]

Now Whitey Herzog-

Now, there are some legitimate arguments in favor of the DH rule, I suppose, but I challenge anyone to read this book and maintain that the DH is good for the game. Whitey gives a couple of examples: "Let's say I'm managing in the NL and I'm considering a pitching change. I have to think. I don't just yank a guy when his arm is tired; I don't just leave him in when he's going good…I'm thinking, 'do I pinch-hit for him now, maybe get us a base hit, and lose him for the game? Or do I keep him in, take a chance on his ugly bat, and keep him out on the mound?' How good's he throwing? How good is my bench guy hitting? Is there time to score later, or is this our last shot?" Contrast that with this hypothetical: "Say Terry Collins has a one run lead over the Mariners in the 8th. Well, he's got Gregg Jefferies, or whoever his DH happens to be that day, batting for the pitcher no matter what. He doesn't have to worry about that. So he brings in his best damn reliever, Troy Percival, to finish the game. That's it! No tradeoffs." Or, to put it more succinctly:

Humpty Dumpty could manage in the American League. There's nothing to manage! … In the NL, you're thinking. You teach your pitchers to sacrifice bunt. You balance your batting order. You use your bench. You play for a run at a time. The good fan can take the time to learn about these things. He gets rewarded for paying attention. The owners never thought all of this through back in 1973, and they still don't realize half of what I'm saying, but the DH takes all of it away. The AL manager sits, waits and watches. So do the fans in the stands. What's so great about that?

 

[Memento]

Now Whitey Herzog-

Now, there are some legitimate arguments in favor of the DH rule, I suppose, but I challenge anyone to read this book and maintain that the DH is good for the game. Whitey gives a couple of examples: "Let's say I'm managing in the NL and I'm considering a pitching change. I have to think. I don't just yank a guy when his arm is tired; I don't just leave him in when he's going good…I'm thinking, 'do I pinch-hit for him now, maybe get us a base hit, and lose him for the game? Or do I keep him in, take a chance on his ugly bat, and keep him out on the mound?' How good's he throwing? How good is my bench guy hitting? Is there time to score later, or is this our last shot?" Contrast that with this hypothetical: "Say Terry Collins has a one run lead over the Mariners in the 8th. Well, he's got Gregg Jefferies, or whoever his DH happens to be that day, batting for the pitcher no matter what. He doesn't have to worry about that. So he brings in his best damn reliever, Troy Percival, to finish the game. That's it! No tradeoffs." Or, to put it more succinctly:

Humpty Dumpty could manage in the American League. There's nothing to manage! … In the NL, you're thinking. You teach your pitchers to sacrifice bunt. You balance your batting order. You use your bench. You play for a run at a time. The good fan can take the time to learn about these things. He gets rewarded for paying attention. The owners never thought all of this through back in 1973, and they still don't realize half of what I'm saying, but the DH takes all of it away. The AL manager sits, waits and watches. So do the fans in the stands. What's so great about that?

You do the same thing in the AL as the NL right now. You manage the bench, who DHs for which games, balance the batting order, have your player bunt, switch pitchers when you think that they're tired, leave the pitcher in when he's in a groove, switch in defensive replacements, etc.

Everyone in every league except for the National League uses the DH. I'm sorry, BNW, I disagree with Herzog and LaRussa, and I think that the DH is a necessity in every league. Nobody comes to the games to see the pitcher bat.

 

[bnw]

You do the same thing in the AL as the NL right now. You manage the bench, who DHs for which games, balance the batting order, have your player bunt, switch pitchers when you think that they're tired, leave the pitcher in when he's in a groove, switch in defensive replacements, etc.

Everyone in every league except for the National League uses the DH. I'm sorry, BNW, I disagree with Herzog and LaRussa, and I think that the DH is a necessity in every league. Nobody comes to the games to see the pitcher bat.

I watch the game. The entire game. AL game is sorely lacking. You can dismiss the opinion of HOF managers like Larussa and Herzog who have taken teams to the World Series in both leagues but I won't.

Let me ask you this question: What is a homerun?

 

[Memento]

I watch the game. The entire game. AL game is sorely lacking. You can dismiss the opinion of HOF managers like Larussa and Herzog who have taken teams to the World Series in both leagues but I won't.

Let me ask you this question: What is a homerun?

What is a home run? A home run can break the game wide open. As we saw Yadi and Dexter do in back-to-back games, it can win you a game. Good pitching and timely defense can also win you games.

Those things are not only for the National or American leagues. I disagree with LaRussa and Herzog. Wouldn't be the first time, wouldn't be the last. Maybe it's because they're old-school, and I'm from the newer generation? I won't give you a different opinion on this. Your point is very valid. I just prefer something different.

 

[bnw]

What is a home run? A home run can break the game wide open. As we saw Yadi and Dexter do in back-to-back games, it can win you a game. Good pitching and timely defense can also win you games.

Those things are not only for the National or American leagues. I disagree with LaRussa and Herzog. Wouldn't be the first time, wouldn't be the last. Maybe it's because they're old-school, and I'm from the newer generation? I won't give you a different opinion on this. Your point is very valid. I just prefer something different.

I was hoping for a technical explanation of a homer but since we're not at a table talking over some Buds I'll cut to the chase.

A homerun is 4 bases, or 3 bases and home plate. Seems obvious, right? But it gets to the root of one of the arguments against the DH and my personal preference of style of play. While watching the ball land on the other side of the outfield wall gives a sense of relief......the watching a guy trot around the bases is very anticlimactic.....unless he's Ozzie Smith with an unanticipated walk off in the ninth in the '85 NLCS.....or David Freese in the World Series. Almost everyone will say the regulation homer is the most exciting play. I disagree. The most exciting play is an in the park home run in which there is a play at the plate! See where I'm going with this? The stolen base, squeeze play, hit and run, taking the extra base etc. In other words action. The AL game is noticeably lacking in these areas because generally there is no emphasis on manufacturing runs. The Royals of '14 and '15 were an exception. Standing around waiting for a dinger to clear the bases is the AL game via the DH and in my opinion lacking. I don't know if you remember the Cardinals teams of the '80s but I do. It was baseball at its finest. Everything in the rule book was exploited to manufacture runs. Speed, hitting, and high baseball IQ were hallmarks of those teams and it never could have happened with the DH. Granted those teams were tailored to Busch II but the ability to manufacture runs without the dinger is priceless.

 

[Memento]

I was hoping for a technical explanation of a homer but since we're not at a table talking over some Buds I'll cut to the chase.

A homerun is 4 bases, or 3 bases and home plate. Seems obvious, right? But it gets to the root of one of the arguments against the DH and my personal preference of style of play. While watching the ball land on the other side of the outfield wall gives a sense of relief......the watching a guy trot around the bases is very anticlimactic.....unless he's Ozzie Smith with an unanticipated walk off in the ninth in the '85 NLCS.....or David Freese in the World Series. Almost everyone will say the regulation homer is the most exciting play. I disagree. The most exciting play is an in the park home run in which there is a play at the plate! See where I'm going with this? The stolen base, squeeze play, hit and run, taking the extra base etc. In other words action. The AL game is noticeably lacking in these areas because generally there is no emphasis on manufacturing runs. The Royals of '14 and '15 were an exception. Standing around waiting for a dinger to clear the bases is the AL game via the DH and in my opinion lacking. I don't know if you remember the Cardinals teams of the '80s but I do. It was baseball at its finest. Everything in the rule book was exploited to manufacture runs. Speed, hitting, and high baseball IQ were hallmarks of those teams and it never could have happened with the DH. Granted those teams were tailored to Busch II but the ability to manufacture runs without the dinger is priceless.

I wasn't even born in the 80s, but I recall how they played. And speed, timely hitting, and high baseball IQ, like I mentioned, is not tailored solely to the NL or AL. The AL steals quite a few bases; look no further than Jose Altuve and the Astros. The AL has hit and runs. They take the extra base. The DH doesn't have to be all about power; it's just a means to get your best nine in the game as hitters. And honestly, chicks like me? We dig the long ball.

 

[bnw]

I wasn't even born in the 80s, but I recall how they played. And speed, timely hitting, and high baseball IQ, like I mentioned, is not tailored solely to the NL or AL. The AL steals quite a few bases; look no further than Jose Altuve and the Astros. The AL has hit and runs. They take the extra base. The DH doesn't have to be all about power; it's just a means to get your best nine in the game as hitters. And honestly, chicks like me? We dig the long ball.

Well then the best nine should be complete players as in playing defense too and that doesn't happen with the DH. DH is half a player. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Lets hope for good news tonight against the Braves.

 

[Memento]

Well then the best nine should be complete players as in playing defense too and that doesn't happen with the DH. DH is half a player. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Lets hope for good news tonight against the Braves.

Let's hope for many runs scored against the Braves! And fuck the Cubs!

 

[OldSchool]

Sorry look at the numbers, the DH doesn't exactly make the AL dominant over the NL. Through 114 games the AL averages 8 runs more as a team or if you break it down they score .07 run a game more than the NL. Truly it's a wonder fans even go to the NL

The two leagues have the same batting average the same on base percentage and the NL actually dares to have a .001 higher slugging percentage. Everybody is welcome to have their opinion, I personally prefer the NL not having a DH sorry but I think if you're going to take at bats you should have to field as well. But to claim it makes the NL lesser or a worse game is purely opinion, just as it's my opinion the NL is better.

 

[OldSchool]

DAMN!!!

Rich Hill just got hit in the adams apple! Tough son of a gun.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

DAMN!!!

Rich Hill just got hit in the adams apple! Tough son of a gun.

As long as it doesn't form a blister we might be alright!

 

[norcalramfan]

Looks like the opposing manager finally got a clue. Just walk Puig in the 8th spot.

 

[OldSchool]

Looks like the opposing manager finally got a clue. Just walk Puig in the 8th spot.

Is that what caused us to leave 21 runners on base?

 

[dieterbrock]

I watch the game. The entire game. AL game is sorely lacking. You can dismiss the opinion of HOF managers like Larussa and Herzog who have taken teams to the World Series in both leagues but I won't.

Let me ask you this question: What is a homerun?

The game evolves. How did Larussa and Herzog deal with relief pitchers throwing mid to high 90's? The shift? Replays?
Its just hanging on to yesteryear while arguing against the DH.
Starters go 6 innings in both leagues, thats 2-3 free at bats for the opposing pitcher and even 4-6 depending on the situation with batter #8.
In real baseball the pitcher has to face 9 major league hitters
Thats why every level of baseball has the DH
Its a diservice to the game that they keep pitchers hitting. Some pitchers who end up in an AL farm system wont take an at bat for 5-10 years. Its just silly
If they didnt have DH in every level, I wouldnt be so much in support of it.
I heard Jim Leland on the radio the other day, they asked him what he thought. He actually said that managing in the NL was easier because the decision to pull a pitcher was often made for him.

 

[bnw]

The game evolves.

Sure it does with players bigger and stronger, jet travel, 162 games season, playoffs, protective gear, medical support etc. However deeming an entire position (pitcher) devoid from anything to do with 50% of the entire game (batting) is a clear case of devolution. The message throughout baseball should be a loud and clear, Take your swings cupcake!

 

[Dieter the Brock]

 

[Dieter the Brock]

Throwbacks to a better time - Go Dodgers!!!!

 

[dieterbrock]

Sure it does with players bigger and stronger, jet travel, 162 games season, playoffs, protective gear, medical support etc. However deeming an entire position (pitcher) devoid from anything to do with 50% of the entire game (batting) is a clear case of devolution. The message throughout baseball should be a loud and clear, Take your swings cupcake!

Yup. Welcome to the big leagues butter cup. Where you face 9 major league hitters

 

[bnw]

Yup. Welcome to the big leagues butter cup. Where you face 9 major league hitters

As opposed to 8?

 

[OldSchool]

As opposed to 8?

A pity they need one more hitter to score the same amount of runs as the NL. They do a good job of trying to impersonate big leaguers.