Are they rebuilding here?

[-X-]

Lots of different opinions out there about this. Lots of gray area. I've heard that they're just flat out removing themselves from the previous regime's direction. I've also heard that this is essentially a 6-year rebuild that utilizes two different coaches/GMs. And I've heard that they're not rebuilding at all, but are instead just adding a few pieces to the last regime's team.

I dunno. I'm leaning towards rebuilding on this one. Sure they're keeping the guys who are worthy of resigning (Bradford, Jackson, Long, Quinn, Laurinaitis, Amendola), but I think they're using this year to evaluate what they have and then NEXT year will be noticeably different. Whatchu think?

 

[RamFan503]

You really didn't think I could pass on that one - did you? :tooth:

 

[-X-]

You really didn't think I could pass on that one - did you? :tooth:

:sly: I knew it would be you too.

But now your fate is in the hands of the first #4 poster.

Right into my trap you fell. :twisted:

 

[RamFan503]

You really didn't think I could pass on that one - did you? :tooth:

:sly: I knew it would be you too.

But now your fate is in the hands of the first #4 poster.

Right into my trap you fell. :twisted:

Doh!

 

[AIRWARNER13]

Lots of different opinions out there about this. Lots of gray area. I've heard that they're just flat out removing themselves from the previous regime's direction. I've also heard that this is essentially a 6-year rebuild that utilizes two different coaches/GMs. And I've heard that they're not rebuilding at all, but are instead just adding a few pieces to the last regime's team.

I dunno. I'm leaning towards rebuilding on this one. Sure they're keeping the guys who are worthy of resigning (Bradford, Jackson, Long, Quinn, Laurinaitis, Amendola), but I think they're using this year to evaluate what they have and then NEXT year will be noticeably different. Whatchu think?

U DAM RIGHT PAUL U KNOW ''FISH'' IS GONNA TRADE ''DOWN'' ONE OF THE TOP PICKS TO BUILD A FUNCTIONING SOLID OLINE AND GET SOME JEWELS FOR THE DEFENSE WHICH IS WHAT HE LIKES AND CUT AWAY INJURED, UNDERACHIVIEING ''DEADWEIGHT'' FROM THE OLINE AND NAME A ''DC'' TO RUN THE DEFENSE AND COUPLE OF FREEAGENTS THAT WILL WANT TO COME HERE BECAUSE THEY WILL SEE THE CHANGE COMEING THIS YEAR OH ''YES'' THEY ARE REBUILDING YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN????

 

[Username]

Yeah. What AIRWARNER13 said.

 

[Memento]

No. We have pieces now, which is so much more than we could say in 2009. We're adjusting our team to fit Fisher's philosophy, not rebuilding it.

 

[bluecoconuts]

You really didn't think I could pass on that one - did you? :tooth:

:sly: I knew it would be you too.

But now your fate is in the hands of the first #4 poster.

Right into my trap you fell. :twisted:

Doh!

You better believe I voted #4.

But on a serious note, I think it's a little bit of both. It's a rebuild in the sense that we have a lot of pieces still to add. But it's not a total rebuild in the sense we have a lot of major positions already in place. QB, RB, MLB, DE, and at least two OL (Saffold and Dahl... Wells doesn't count since he was brought in by Fisher)... Salas, Amendola, and Pettis can all work out for us, I expect Amendola to stick around for a while.

I see it more of a remodel. We're changing a good amount of things around here for sure, and at the end the house will look a lot better. But we're not going to totally knock it down and start over.

 

[Iron Lion]

If they were rebuilding they would have probably drafted Bob... er, sorry, I mean RGIII. But despite all the hype, Bob is a rookie and won't be as good as Bradford this year (even if Bradford stinks it up).

From what I can tell is going on with this team, Fisher is just trying to get as many wins as possible and see where that takes them. He's not worried about developing Jason Smith, despite what the previous front office invested in him. He's just trying to put the most competitive team on the field rather than punt the season away.

It's very hard to become a champion without ever rebuilding, but it can be done... I have been dealing with the Packers for decades, they won't freaking go away. Right from Favre to Rodgers... makes me sick...

 

[Angry Ram]

Well, let's just look at last year's and this year's roster (and yes, I'm bored).

2011 O:
QB: Bradford, Feely, Clemens
RB: SJack, Cadilac, Norwood
FB: Miller
WR: Amendola, Gibson, Lloyd, DX, Salas, Pettis, Curry, Miller
OL: Saffold, Bell, Brown, Dahl, Smith (I'm not counting backups here)
TE: Kendricks, Big Mike, Bajema, Spach

2010 D:
DL: Long, Robbins, Bannan, Quinn, Hall, Sims, Ah You, Gibson, Scott
LB: Leber, Laurinaitis, Poppinga, Kehl, Chamberlain
CB: Fletcher, Bartell, Murphy, Harris, Gordy, Ness, Hood, King
S: Stewart, Butler, Mikell, Dahl

2012 O:
QB: Bradford, Clemens, Davis
RB: SJack, Pead, Richardson
FB: Miller/Mughelli (I know I brutalized his name)
WR: Quick, Givens, Smith, Amendola, DX, Salas, Pettis
OL: Saffold, Watkins/Mattison, Wells, Dahl, Smith
TE: Kendricks, Big Mike, Mulligan

2012 D:
DL: Long, Brockers, Langford, Quinn, Hayes, Sims, Scott, Cudjo, Laws, Conrath
LB: McIntosh, Laurinaitis, Haggan, Brown, Dunbar
CB: Fletcher, Finnegan, Murphy, Jenkins, Johnson, Gordy
S: Stewart, Mikell, Dahl

The ones in bold replace each other.

Honestly is anyone gonna miss AJ Feely, James Butler, Nate Ness, or Billy Bajema?

The most turnover occured @ DT and CB, and we've def. upgraded w/ proven, young vets along w/ early round pick rookies. And @ LB, it can't get any worse than last year, can it?

The OL is virtually the same, except for LG and C. WR is w/ rookies and 1 extra vet. Otherwise, it's the same as last year.

Way I see it, they added on to last year. If it was a total rebuild, then the "more important" posistions would've been upgraded (LT, QB, DE, etc) or "their guys" would've been brought in, maybe @ TE, S, or RT, but those were already set or were upgraded.

 

[Thordaddy]

Besides players they replaced the WHOLE coaching staff,that's a rebuild,you can't have a continuation of Spagvaney without them being the ones who select their replacement.
New systems all round ,we are very close to the rebuild of '09, not as drastic but there are players the last regime jettisoned still playing and but for about 4 players more settled here and now we are not much further along.

 

[-X-]

Well, let's just look at last year's and this year's roster (and yes, I'm bored).

2011 O:
QB: Bradford, Feely, Clemens
RB: SJack, Cadilac, Norwood
FB: Miller
WR: Amendola, Gibson, Lloyd, DX, Salas, Pettis, Curry, Miller
OL: Saffold, Bell, Brown, Dahl, Smith (I'm not counting backups here)
TE: Kendricks, Big Mike, Bajema, Spach

2010 D:
DL: Long, Robbins, Bannan, Quinn, Hall, Sims, Ah You, Gibson, Scott
LB: Leber, Laurinaitis, Poppinga, Kehl, Chamberlain
CB: Fletcher, Bartell, Murphy, Harris, Gordy, Ness, Hood, King
S: Stewart, Butler, Mikell, Dahl

2012 O:
QB: Bradford, Clemens, Davis
RB: SJack, Pead, Richardson
FB: Miller/Mughelli (I know I brutalized his name)
WR: Quick, Givens, Smith, Amendola, DX, Salas, Pettis
OL: Saffold, Watkins/Mattison, Wells, Dahl, Smith
TE: Kendricks, Big Mike, Mulligan

2012 D:
DL: Long, Brockers, Langford, Quinn, Hayes, Sims, Scott, Cudjo, Laws, Conrath
LB: McIntosh, Laurinaitis, Haggan, Brown, Dunbar
CB: Fletcher, Finnegan, Murphy, Jenkins, Johnson, Gordy
S: Stewart, Mikell, Dahl

The ones in bold replace each other.

Honestly is anyone gonna miss AJ Feely, James Butler, Nate Ness, or Billy Bajema?

The most turnover occured @ DT and CB, and we've def. upgraded w/ proven, young vets along w/ early round pick rookies. And @ LB, it can't get any worse than last year, can it?

The OL is virtually the same, except for LG and C. WR is w/ rookies and 1 extra vet. Otherwise, it's the same as last year.

Way I see it, they added on to last year. If it was a total rebuild, then the "more important" posistions would've been upgraded (LT, QB, DE, etc) or "their guys" would've been brought in, maybe @ TE, S, or RT, but those were already set or were upgraded.

Mr. Angry Ram?

That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection.

Overruled.

Actually, nobody is right or wrong. It's just a matter of perception, and I just wanted to see how everyone looked at the situation. I appreciate your input there, Taco Bell lover.

 

[ScotsRam]

I voted for 4. Great post Angry. Nailed it.

 

[Memento]

Well, let's just look at last year's and this year's roster (and yes, I'm bored).

2011 O:
QB: Bradford, Feely, Clemens
RB: SJack, Cadilac, Norwood
FB: Miller
WR: Amendola, Gibson, Lloyd, DX, Salas, Pettis, Curry, Miller
OL: Saffold, Bell, Brown, Dahl, Smith (I'm not counting backups here)
TE: Kendricks, Big Mike, Bajema, Spach

2010 D:
DL: Long, Robbins, Bannan, Quinn, Hall, Sims, Ah You, Gibson, Scott
LB: Leber, Laurinaitis, Poppinga, Kehl, Chamberlain
CB: Fletcher, Bartell, Murphy, Harris, Gordy, Ness, Hood, King
S: Stewart, Butler, Mikell, Dahl

2012 O:
QB: Bradford, Clemens, Davis
RB: SJack, Pead, Richardson
FB: Miller/Mughelli (I know I brutalized his name)
WR: Quick, Givens, Smith, Amendola, DX, Salas, Pettis
OL: Saffold, Watkins/Mattison, Wells, Dahl, Smith
TE: Kendricks, Big Mike, Mulligan

2012 D:
DL: Long, Brockers, Langford, Quinn, Hayes, Sims, Scott, Cudjo, Laws, Conrath
LB: McIntosh, Laurinaitis, Haggan, Brown, Dunbar
CB: Fletcher, Finnegan, Murphy, Jenkins, Johnson, Gordy
S: Stewart, Mikell, Dahl

The ones in bold replace each other.

Honestly is anyone gonna miss AJ Feely, James Butler, Nate Ness, or Billy Bajema?

The most turnover occured @ DT and CB, and we've def. upgraded w/ proven, young vets along w/ early round pick rookies. And @ LB, it can't get any worse than last year, can it?

The OL is virtually the same, except for LG and C. WR is w/ rookies and 1 extra vet. Otherwise, it's the same as last year.

Way I see it, they added on to last year. If it was a total rebuild, then the "more important" posistions would've been upgraded (LT, QB, DE, etc) or "their guys" would've been brought in, maybe @ TE, S, or RT, but those were already set or were upgraded.

Said exactly what I was thinking, Angry.

 

[had]

I dunno. I'm leaning towards rebuilding on this one. Sure they're keeping the guys who are worthy of resigning (Bradford, Jackson, Long, Quinn, Laurinaitis, Amendola), but I think they're using this year to evaluate what they have and then NEXT year will be noticeably different. Whatchu think?

I voted no, not rebuilding. I think the Rams believe, or hope, that they have the pieces in place to effectively manage the LOS on the offense. I think that if they did not believe this, they would have drafted or signed or traded for an LOT and/or ROT. (If the Rams signed or drafted or traded for a LOT or ROT, and I missed it, then I apologize – I have suffered numerous mosquito bites in the last 30 days.)

I agree that they’re using this year to evaluate and then next year will be noticeably different, but if I was to posit that this was the case, I would elaborate and say that Smith will be gone next year, along with
numerous DB pieces inherited, and that Bradford is on the bubble, and that Saffold is likely to be replaced/moved.

So much depends on Smith and Saffold. I do not believe that Smith will be the answer at ROT, nor that he will be playing for the Rams next year. I do not believe that Saffold will be found to be sufficient cover at LOT, and I believe the Rams will be rebuilding the OL next year. I also believe that Bradford will be fighting to maintain a viable career in the NFL come next year.

And that the Rams will subsequently be in rebuild.

I think that there is an outside chance (I’d say 25-1) that the Rams offense will be effective this year. That the synergy between OL and QB will be sufficient to consistently move the chains, control the clock, and score points. I think Jason Smith is a head case who has all my good Rams brothers fooled into thinking that he’s a good guy and a solid prospect, but who can’t pull the stick out long enough to loosen up and just play some f***ing football. He now irritates me.

I don’t want to be disrespectful towards ROT Smith, but I feel strongly that he should shut his mouth, pull up his laces, and freakin’ block someone. It’s not that hard. Wow. Wow! Block, mother*****r, block! Smith was a sizeable link in the chain around Billy D’s neck, but he won’t be holding up this management team. No sir.

I feel irritated just talking about all this. I hope I don’t offend any guys who are really “pulling” for JS. Sorry if I do. And if he should pull it off, I will --- I will do nothing. I will be moded and corroded.

The Rams aren’t rebuilding, in my opinion. They are waiting and seeing and hoping and praying.

 

[Anonymous]

I think this is a prefix issue.

Are they...

REbuilding? That means starting over. Generally happens with an established roster you don't like, or don't like anymore, since a coach can rebuild a team after winning a superbowl.

Okay that's RE.

What about ANTI.

So are they ANTIbuilding? No, Martz and Linehan already tried that, and it doesn't look like it works.

COUNTER?

Well I supposed COUNTERbuilding is a subtle variation on ANTIbuilding. So, Linehan took nobody in drafts (anti-building) and Martz took mostly nobody, punctuated by many just wrong guys (Incognito). So that would be COUNTERbuilding.

EX?

EXbuilding is when you're done building. You can easily spot this one--because it never happens.

MINI?

MINIbuilding is just addressing one part of the team. So for example, the Rams had Miller at ROT, then Tucker, then Jones, then Turley, then St. Clair, then Tucker's brother (the guard), then Barron, then Brandon Gorin, then Trautwein, then Smith, then Goldberg, then Dahl (the guard), now Richardson. Sorry for such a shortened list--I left a bunch of guys out.

OUT?

OUTbuilding. This is when you hire a firm from India to build it for you. Since Zygmunt left, this approach is out of favor.

OVER?

OVERbuilding is what teams like the Packers and Patriots do. That is, they take the fun out of football by developing replacements long in advance. This of course works on the field, but it leaves fans with nothing to talk about. Fortunately, teams like that never overbuild their defenses, so there's still some room for ordinary fun football conversation.

POST?

POSTbuilding is what happens after building. Given the nature of the NFL, no one knows what this looks like. It's like asking what happened before the big bang.

PRE?

PREbuilding is the condition of a team that doesn't yet know it has to change things. So like in 2000, Martz said, we're just drafting backups, hardly anyone can make this team. Then what happened of course is the defense completely tanked, at least in part because every single starter on the DL had off-season surgery. One hint for future coaches: if every single member of a key unit has off-season surgery, that's normally a red flag.

UN?

UNbuilding is another subtle variation on ANTIbuilding, but applies to free agents. This is also known as the Zygmunt Method. That is, the way to determine the value of a free agent is (1) you pay all skill position players regardless, and (2) if they are not a skill player you look how central they are to the team's success, and the more central they are, the less likely you are to keep them. This approach has not caught on with many other teams.

UNDER?

UNDERbuilding is just the normal condition of all football teams. They can waiver between drastically underbuilt and minimally underbuilt. For a good idea of what a minimally underbuilt team looks like, just look close at every superbowl winner since they started that game.

 

[-X-]

I think this is a prefix issue.

Are they...

REbuilding? That means starting over. Generally happens with an established roster you don't like, or don't like anymore, since a coach can rebuild a team after winning a superbowl.

Okay that's RE.

What about ANTI.

So are they ANTIbuilding? No, Martz and Linehan already tried that, and it doesn't look like it works.

COUNTER?

Well I supposed COUNTERbuilding is a subtle variation on ANTIbuilding. So, Linehan took nobody in drafts (anti-building) and Martz took mostly nobody, punctuated by many just wrong guys (Incognito). So that would be COUNTERbuilding.

EX?

EXbuilding is when you're done building. You can easily spot this one--because it never happens.

MINI?

MINIbuilding is just addressing one part of the team. So for example, the Rams had Miller at ROT, then Tucker, then Jones, then Turley, then St. Clair, then Tucker's brother (the guard), then Barron, then Brandon Gorin, then Trautwein, then Smith, then Goldberg, then Dahl (the guard), now Richardson. Sorry for such a shortened list--I left a bunch of guys out.

OUT?

OUTbuilding. This is when you hire a firm from India to build it for you. Since Zygmunt left, this approach is out of favor.

OVER?

OVERbuilding is what teams like the Packers and Patriots do. That is, they take the fun out of football by developing replacements long in advance. This of course works on the field, but it leaves fans with nothing to talk about. Fortunately, teams like that never overbuild their defenses, so there's still some room for ordinary fun football conversation.

POST?

POSTbuilding is what happens after building. Given the nature of the NFL, no one knows what this looks like. It's like asking what happened before the big bang.

PRE?

PREbuilding is the condition of a team that doesn't yet know it has to change things. So like in 2000, Martz said, we're just drafting backups, hardly anyone can make this team. Then what happened of course is the defense completely tanked, at least in part because every single starter on the DL had off-season surgery. One hint for future coaches: if every single member of a key unit has off-season surgery, that's normally a red flag.

UN?

UNbuilding is another subtle variation on ANTIbuilding, but applies to free agents. This is also known as the Zygmunt Method. That is, the way to determine the value of a free agent is (1) you pay all skill position players regardless, and (2) if they are not a skill player you look how central they are to the team's success, and the more central they are, the less likely you are to keep them. This approach has not caught on with many other teams.

UNDER?

UNDERbuilding is just the normal condition of all football teams. They can waiver between drastically underbuilt and minimally underbuilt. For a good idea of what a minimally underbuilt team looks like, just look close at every superbowl winner since they started that game.

You win the internets.

 

[Angry Ram]

Well, let's just look at last year's and this year's roster (and yes, I'm bored).

2011 O:
QB: Bradford, Feely, Clemens
RB: SJack, Cadilac, Norwood
FB: Miller
WR: Amendola, Gibson, Lloyd, DX, Salas, Pettis, Curry, Miller
OL: Saffold, Bell, Brown, Dahl, Smith (I'm not counting backups here)
TE: Kendricks, Big Mike, Bajema, Spach

2010 D:
DL: Long, Robbins, Bannan, Quinn, Hall, Sims, Ah You, Gibson, Scott
LB: Leber, Laurinaitis, Poppinga, Kehl, Chamberlain
CB: Fletcher, Bartell, Murphy, Harris, Gordy, Ness, Hood, King
S: Stewart, Butler, Mikell, Dahl

2012 O:
QB: Bradford, Clemens, Davis
RB: SJack, Pead, Richardson
FB: Miller/Mughelli (I know I brutalized his name)
WR: Quick, Givens, Smith, Amendola, DX, Salas, Pettis
OL: Saffold, Watkins/Mattison, Wells, Dahl, Smith
TE: Kendricks, Big Mike, Mulligan

2012 D:
DL: Long, Brockers, Langford, Quinn, Hayes, Sims, Scott, Cudjo, Laws, Conrath
LB: McIntosh, Laurinaitis, Haggan, Brown, Dunbar
CB: Fletcher, Finnegan, Murphy, Jenkins, Johnson, Gordy
S: Stewart, Mikell, Dahl

The ones in bold replace each other.

Honestly is anyone gonna miss AJ Feely, James Butler, Nate Ness, or Billy Bajema?

The most turnover occured @ DT and CB, and we've def. upgraded w/ proven, young vets along w/ early round pick rookies. And @ LB, it can't get any worse than last year, can it?

The OL is virtually the same, except for LG and C. WR is w/ rookies and 1 extra vet. Otherwise, it's the same as last year.

Way I see it, they added on to last year. If it was a total rebuild, then the "more important" posistions would've been upgraded (LT, QB, DE, etc) or "their guys" would've been brought in, maybe @ TE, S, or RT, but those were already set or were upgraded.

Mr. Angry Ram?

That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection.

Overruled.

Actually, nobody is right or wrong. It's just a matter of perception, and I just wanted to see how everyone looked at the situation. I appreciate your input there, Taco Bell lover.

Don't get me started. I went last week and the Doritos Locos tacos box cost $5.99! Damn drought.

 

[Thordaddy]

I think this is a prefix issue.

Are they...

REbuilding? That means starting over. Generally happens with an established roster you don't like, or don't like anymore, since a coach can rebuild a team after winning a superbowl.

Okay that's RE.

What about ANTI.

So are they ANTIbuilding? No, Martz and Linehan already tried that, and it doesn't look like it works.

COUNTER?

Well I supposed COUNTERbuilding is a subtle variation on ANTIbuilding. So, Linehan took nobody in drafts (anti-building) and Martz took mostly nobody, punctuated by many just wrong guys (Incognito). So that would be COUNTERbuilding.

EX?

EXbuilding is when you're done building. You can easily spot this one--because it never happens.

MINI?

MINIbuilding is just addressing one part of the team. So for example, the Rams had Miller at ROT, then Tucker, then Jones, then Turley, then St. Clair, then Tucker's brother (the guard), then Barron, then Brandon Gorin, then Trautwein, then Smith, then Goldberg, then Dahl (the guard), now Richardson. Sorry for such a shortened list--I left a bunch of guys out.

OUT?

OUTbuilding. This is when you hire a firm from India to build it for you. Since Zygmunt left, this approach is out of favor.

OVER?

OVERbuilding is what teams like the Packers and Patriots do. That is, they take the fun out of football by developing replacements long in advance. This of course works on the field, but it leaves fans with nothing to talk about. Fortunately, teams like that never overbuild their defenses, so there's still some room for ordinary fun football conversation.

POST?

POSTbuilding is what happens after building. Given the nature of the NFL, no one knows what this looks like. It's like asking what happened before the big bang.

PRE?

PREbuilding is the condition of a team that doesn't yet know it has to change things. So like in 2000, Martz said, we're just drafting backups, hardly anyone can make this team. Then what happened of course is the defense completely tanked, at least in part because every single starter on the DL had off-season surgery. One hint for future coaches: if every single member of a key unit has off-season surgery, that's normally a red flag.

UN?

UNbuilding is another subtle variation on ANTIbuilding, but applies to free agents. This is also known as the Zygmunt Method. That is, the way to determine the value of a free agent is (1) you pay all skill position players regardless, and (2) if they are not a skill player you look how central they are to the team's success, and the more central they are, the less likely you are to keep them. This approach has not caught on with many other teams.

UNDER?

UNDERbuilding is just the normal condition of all football teams. They can waiver between drastically underbuilt and minimally underbuilt. For a good idea of what a minimally underbuilt team looks like, just look close at every superbowl winner since they started that game.

You win the internets.

For which the prize is
Cuz it's still all perception
Like Can you COUNT Bradford since you aren't in receipt of a trained individual, you are retraining him in a new system?

Like I've said before ,some people want rebuilding and starting over to mean the same thing but, the coaching staff is a HUGE part of the whole as illustrated in San Fran.

 

[-X-]

You win the internets.

For which the prize is

The internets.