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Another Bradford Article!

Discussion in 'RAMS - NFL TALK' started by wrstdude, May 27, 2014.

  1. ED_29 Well-Known Member

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    sort of like the Rams with Clemens last year?
     
    #101
  2. wrstdude Well-Known Member

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    Still no mention of the new players surrounding Wilson.

    None of what you said WRT the WRs is really relevant. If Baldwin & Tate are on the Rams last year, they're starters.

    @ChrisTrapasso: Doug Baldwin = underrated asset. Per @PFF, during the playoffs, he didn't drop a pass on 13 catchable targets. 4-4 to him on throws 20+ yds.

    @IanKenyonNFL: Doug Baldwin had 778 yards on 73 targets last season. Larry Fitzgerald had 954 yards on 136 targets.
     
    #102
  3. FRO Well-Known Member

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    So are we going to ignore the defensive and running woes the first 4 games of the year?
     
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  4. dieterbrock Well-Known Member

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    Baldwin and Tate were also on the team in 2011, as was Marshawn Lynch. So with the same players, his numbers were leaps and bounds better than average. And the team record reflects that
    Wilson worked with essentially the same cast of characters. Baldwin had his career highs in 2011 and Tate was a slow developing player who didnt come in to his own until his 4th season.
    So I'm not sure where you're moving the goal posts to. If Rice and or Harvin actually played for the Hawks I'd say they had superior talent to the Rams, but since they didnt, what was left is comparable
     
    #104
  5. Mojo Ram On double secret probation

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    Yes. What if Bradford had gone down with injury in preseason and Clemens had started the first 7 games with zero running game and porous defense? Would we have even won a game? Idk.

    I like to stay out of analysis paralysis debates, but DieterBrock mentioned that it's a passing league(widely considered to be true)...but is the NFCW a QB-driven division?
    I say no. The best division in the league appears to spit in the face of that mantra.

    Lets put Russell Wilson in a Niners uniform the last two years. IMO they aren't runners-up in that scenario.

    Anyway...carry on gentleman. (y)
     
    #105
  6. ED_29 Well-Known Member

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    you keep making excuses my friend at every turn

    Understand that the Rams ran that spread offense because Sam was supposed to be good at it? You remember that right? They centered the offense around him and his arm and it didn't work. He didn't run it well, they couldn't pass block well, they definitely didn't have WRs that knew what was going on... it was all of them. Not everyone but Bradford. It was him too so just stop with blaming everyone else.

    Back to the original point the Rams won 7 games with Clemens at QB in the best division in football. He had a better stating record than Bradford and against far harder competition unless you equate beating the Bears, Colts, & Saints with the Jags, and Texans?

    No more excuses. Sam needs to be at least 3 games better and if he is as good as you all claim perhaps 4 or 5 (and especially with the additions this year). What about his stellar record in the division since Fisher? Remember that? Well then prove it! He should make up a considerable difference. You guys can't have it both ways.

    Its time for Bradford to be the difference between the Rams being average to below to being very good. Show me! Thats all I'm asking and stop making excuses and looking at everyone else.

    Its time for him to shut people up. He doesn't have to be Dan Fouts or Kurt Warner... but if he can be clutch like Wilson while being the game manager they are asking him to be and yes stay healthy then we might be in good shape.

    I have been waiting for 4 years... year 5 and if he doesn't show it now ... he likely never will
     
    #106
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  7. ED_29 Well-Known Member

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    they would not have run that offense with Clemens... what is wrong with you guys. They ran that spread because Sam was supposed to be good at it. Why do you guys all of the sudden have amnesia. Sams skill set is supposed to lend itself to be able to run the spread offense because thats what is was supposed to be most comfortable in

    Honestly sometimes I really don't get you guys. Its one thing to have an opinion but its like you guys purposely leave information out to support Bradford just blindly
     
    #107
  8. -X- I'm the dude, man.

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    Can you quit doing that now? Address the argument and not the board's collective intelligence. That's not cool.

    It's true that they wouldn't have broken out that offense if Clemens was the QB starting from week 1. And Bradford's skill-set was supposed to be the cog in that wheel. But I'm in no way going to blame the QB for the failure of that offense. It wasn't a pure spread either. It was an offense designed to supplement the lack of a workhorse RB through short passes and quick reads. Fisher and Schottenheimer described it that way too. It didn't fail because Bradford was a bad QB. It failed because the ability to block and even give the illusion of a ground threat was severely lacking. When that was reined in and Stacy emerged, things picked back up.
     
    #108
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  9. ED_29 Well-Known Member

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    well I don't think I was doing that. It certainly wasn't my intent to label the entire board. Only those who seem to want to pick and choose information when it comes to supporting Sam

    here take a listen to Coach Venturi describe the Rams issues running the spread and he blames Sam in addition to Shotty, the oline, and the WRs... he doesn't blame everyone else but Sam

    http://www.rams-news.com/coach-venturi-has-harsh-words-for-bradford-rams-toughness-radio-interviews/
     
    #109
  10. dieterbrock Well-Known Member

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    I didnt say it was a passing league, but a QB driven league. And I believe Wilson fits that to a tee. Its a running team, and he is a running qb. Hes good for 500 yards and 2-3 td on the ground himself. The position has seen a shift. I happen to think that Kaepernick is the phony, that he's being held up by his team, if we could flip the subject to Kaep from Wilson, I can walk away lol

    We've beat this horse enough, all I'm saying is that with our QB we use on pace calculations, adjust passer ratings for dropped balls etc to extrapolate Bradford's numbers. I get it, rock on, no issue. Where I get the Irish up is when players like Wilson have their numbers minimized. Just doesnt work both ways for me.
    I like Bradford, always have. Love his mechanics and look forward to seeing him play. And yes, I hope he can be as good as other top QB, like Wilson and I dont need to tear down his numbers.

    Call it the ultimate strawman, but IMO, if SB put up the same numbers as Wilson, we'd be up in arms that he wasnt considered great. And if he put up those numbers, the team would have to be significantly better
     
    #110
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  11. Mojo Ram On double secret probation

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    I completely agree with you on Wilson vs Kap, and i've been outspoken on that issue :D

    I also happen to believe that both Bradford and maybe even Palmer are better QB's than Wilson...but that remains to be seen until the Rams and Cardinals QB's are surrounded by elite defenses and better overall talent. It's debatable(as is anything on the internet) but that's my take.
     
    #111
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  12. -X- I'm the dude, man.

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    For your edification, I listened to it despite my finding Venturi to be a pandering buffoon - along with "Zach." Everything he said about the team is exactly what I said to you when I quoted you. So, I guess I got validated by a buffoon. Not sure how I feel about that. I'll have to meditate on that one. As for his criticisms about Bradford, I can accept those, even though he's contradicting himself as he offers them. He says the O-line can't protect the edge, the run game can't find the edge, and the defense HAS no edge. And then he goes on to say that Bradford doesn't wow him enough. Quite the dichotomy. lol. As far as Bradford not giving enough facial expressions as he leaves the field ... meh. That's not something that should be all that concerning to anyone.

    Anyway. I've already given you my personal criticisms of Bradford in the past, so your claim that I'm blaming everyone but him rings hollow. A pure pocket passer needs the things that causes Venturi to criticize him. Do you not see the dilemma there? Bradford is at his very best when he has time to plant his foot and step into a throw. Well, yeah. But when you just get done telling "Zach and Rammer" that the offense isn't giving him the opportunity to do it, how can you criticize it for not happening? I disagree strongly that he lacks football instincts, but I have no way of proving he does. Nor does Venturi have a way of proving he doesn't. I just got done watching his two worst games from last year, and I saw him stand tall in the pocket despite being sacked 11 times, hit 31 times, and pressured far more than that over that two-game span. I also saw him deliver strikes as he was being hit, receivers dropping balls, backs missing blocking assignments, and some pretty crappy throws as well.

    In order to intelligently debate Venturi, I started to compile a video with his audio from that interview while showing plays that contradict everything he was saying. And then I came to my senses. I figured, what's the point anymore? His critics aren't changing their minds. He'll have to be an active participant on a team with one unified purpose. Playing together, and executing across the board on their way to picking up a bunch of wins. If they can't do that, someone's gonna get the blame, and it'll most likely be him. If they DO do that, then there won't be much complaining about anything.

    So ... we'll see what happens. Only 97 more days.
     
    #112
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  13. -X- I'm the dude, man.

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    huh?
     
    #113
  14. Ram Quixote Knight Errant

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    Only if you replaced the OP with this point.
     
    #114
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  15. Thordaddy Binding you with ancient logic

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    We won 4 games with Clemens at QB,3 with Sam
    and BTW with Clemens at QB we won ZERO "in the best division "

    So yeah HUH?
     
    #115
    Last edited: May 30, 2014
  16. RamzFanz Well-Known Member Pit Boss

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    I'll validate you X.

    [​IMG]
     
    #116
  17. rhinobean Well-Known Member

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    Of those 4 wins, the defense won 2 as I recall.
     
    #117
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  18. RamzFanz Well-Known Member Pit Boss

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    This thread has gone all PD on us.

    Let's just put this to rest and see what happens?
     
    #118
  19. Thordaddy Binding you with ancient logic

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    Well not "all" but some fer sure
     
    #119
  20. flv 

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    Good points. We were always going to struggle early with such inexperience at the offensive skill positions and in the defensive backfield. Clearly both groups improved throughout the season. I think we'd have been 1-6 or maybe 2-5 with Clemens. I doubt we'd have beaten the Cardinals.
     
    #120
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