AJ Cann

[jrry32]

100% wrong....olinemen have to react to late D shifts and understand blitz schemes...they have to be able to think on their feet...not instincts it's knowing both the offensive and defensive playbook. there is a reason olinemen have the highest wonderlic scores...feel to call any oline coach or former player and ask them if intelligence matters

No, the majority of the OL does not have to understand blitz schemes (it certainly helps if they do but it's not a requirement). The QB and/or the Center (depends on the scheme) call protections which alerts the OGs and OTs to who they are expected to block. The OGs (and C) have to think fast on twists, stunts, etc. but the OTs actually have it quite easy.

In terms of intelligence needed on the OL, it goes:
C
OG
OT

And none of them need more intelligence than the QB. Because the QB has to read the entire field. He has to know his job AS WELL AS everyone else's. He has to be ready for any and all contingencies. There's no other position that comes close to the QB in terms of how mentally challenging it is on the field in football. OT doesn't even hold a candle to it.

And yes, what the OTs are doing on twists and stunts is instinctual. Just like what CBs and LBs do is instinctual. You don't think they watch a shitload of film to help them anticipate what's going to happen? What OTs do is no different...in fact, the Mike LB position is a lot more of a thinking man's position than OT.

The Wonderlic has no positive correlation to success in football. It's meaningless.

Feel free to pull quotes from all the OL Coaches you have on speed dial.

do you think it is really just a coincidencethat ot's and oline score the highest on the wonderlic

Yes. It's purely coincidental. And completely meaningless.

Ryan Fitzpatrick scored a 48 on the Wonderlic. Dan Marino scored a 13. Which guy was better at breaking down defenses on a football field?

In fact, the only correlation on the Wonderlic test is at the TE position. And it's a generally negative correlation. Meaning the lower you score, the more successful you generally are.

The Wonderlic means nothing. And it's what your entire theory is based upon.

The fact that you're actually claiming that OLs have to be smarter than QBs is baffling. It's just plain incorrect.

 

[Mojo Ram]

A couple of you guys in this thread need avatars.

 

[Mr. Walker]

The Wonderlic test is completely useless In my opinion. Jason Peters and Ryan Clady are two of the best Tackles in the game, neither scored above a 13. Maurkice Pouncey scored a 14.

Jason Smith scored a 23 and Barrett Jones scored a 35.

 

[Ballhawk]

Dan Marino scored a 13.

Doesn't this prove our point? And if Fitz had Marino's arm would he be the best QB ever?>
Who knows?

 

[jrry32]

Doesn't this prove our point? And if Fitz had Marino's arm would he be the best QB ever?>
Who knows?

No. Because as someone has already pointed out, two of the best OTs in the game scored poorly. There are two points here:
1. There is no correlation between high scores on the Wonderlic and success in the NFL...i.e. doing well on the test in no way predicts success in the NFL
and
2. The Wonderlic does not measure football IQ which is actually what is important

Fitzpatrick would not be the best QB ever with Marino's arm. He doesn't see the field like Marino. He doesn't have a release like Marino. He doesn't have the football IQ of Marino.

You're mistaking a high score on the Wonderlic test as indicative of actual football IQ. It's not. Marino was a more intelligent player when it came to the game of football. Just like Peyton Manning is a far more intelligent player when it comes to football than Ryan Fitzpatrick...who also scored significantly higher than Manning.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Not sure why it is fellas, but @hammer has a point, there is a reason that a very high percentage linemen are smarter than the average player...and some probably have that functional intelligence, but don't score well on a wonderlic...and of course we're talking all things being equal....hence, Fitzpatrick will never be Marino, even though I really wanted to keep that kid...Same with Jeff Rutledge, but I digress...

Cuz to me, Robinson is a day 3 pick. Very slow feet. Probably can't stick at Tackle.

I had heard that Robinson was a good athlete, then watched a bit, moving very slowly in the games I saw..In fact I only like Cann since I KNOW Snisher won't spend a #10 on a offensive guard (would he?).....of course I'd rather have Collins..Probably Marpet too before Cann...But 3rd round, take Cann...Robinson naw, BUT Donovan Smith...yes...great debate fellas, I get mad when I don't search this side of the blog...and good stuff is in here...

 

[thehammer]

this isn't a Mary Ann vs Ginger debate...

statistical reality is just that...

denying reality is pointless(and ego driven)...that OT already score the highest on the wonderlic is reality, that olinemen except for guards score higher then qb's is also a statistical reality....that the 4 highest wonderlic scores by postion are ot, c, qb and g is also reality..reality just is...

and using outlier/exceptions are an insult to the every ones intelligence...intellectually like dropping a dozen infants out of a 5 story building expecting them to survive because an infant once fell from a 5 story building and survived...exceptions to the rule are just that..exceptions

Staubach attended a jc? Think you had better do some research on New Mexico Military Institute..

Buddhist Proverb When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

 

[jjab360]

Robinson smart long 35 5/8 arms, perfect size and is down to 319....Cann is 6' 2 1/2 with 32 1/2 arms
IMO Robinson will have a long career at either rt or g in the nfl.. Not sure about Cann as a starter at g or c

Scouting a player based purely off of measurables is pretty ridiculous. Robinson is a 5th round prospect at best, maybe an UDFA with those slow feet.

 

[jrry32]

this isn't a Mary Ann vs Ginger debate...

statistical reality is just that...

denying reality is pointless(and ego driven)...

The irony here is that believing your opinion to be reality is as egotistical as it gets. There is no argument over whether OTs have the highest average on the Wonderlic according to that article. The argument and denial is over your interpretation of that.

I can only recommend you google the word "correlation" and look at the definition.

that OT already score the highest on the wonderlic is reality, that olinemen except for guards score higher then qb's is also a statistical reality....that the 4 highest wonderlic scores by postion are ot, c, qb and g is also reality..reality just is...

That is reality (according to that article). Here's the other reality:
1. In the studies done, the Wonderlic score has consistently failed to have anywhere near a strong correlation to success in the NFL. Basically, doing well on the Wonderlic does not predict success in the NFL. So you throwing it out there as if it's some important measure is just plain incorrect. And just in case you don't believe me:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...o-athletes-really-need-to-be-smart-to-succeed

A 2009 study found that there is no correlation between on-field performance and Wonderlic scores except at two positions: tight end and defensive back. And in both those instances, players with lousy scores actually had better pro careers than their test-acing peers. Other statistical analyses have produced similar results, finding either a very mild correlation between Wonderlic scores and NFL success or none at all.

2. Nobody cares how well read a NFL player is. What people want to know about is their football IQ. The Wonderlic does not in any way test football IQ.

To put this as bluntly as possible, you're wrong. And continuing to thump your chest with an absolutely meaningless metric that has been proven to not be a predictor of success and in no way measures what you're claiming it does makes your argument look weak.

and using outlier/exceptions are an insult to the every ones intelligence...intellectually like dropping a dozen infants out of a 5 story building expecting them to survive because an infant once fell from a 5 story building and survived...exceptions to the rule are just that..exceptions

Except there is no rule. You making shit up and calling it a rule does not make it a rule. Furthermore, you taking all the examples contrary to your rule and claiming them as outliers is the real insult to every person's intelligence.

Here are some "outliers" to your rule...Wonderlic scores for the starting QBs in the NFL:
1. Ryan Fitzpatrick - 48
2. Alex Smith - 40
3. Eli Manning - 39
4. Colin Kaepernick - 38
4. Matt Stafford - 38
6. Andrew Luck - 37
6. Tony Romo - 37
8. Sam Bradford - 36
9. Aaron Rodgers - 35
10. Ryan Tannehill - 34
11. Tom Brady - 33
12. Matt Ryan - 32
12. Johnny Manziel - 32
14. Philip Rivers - 30
14. Zach Mettenberger - 30
16. Andy Dalton - 29
16. Nick Foles - 29
18. Blake Bortles - 28
18. Drew Brees - 28
18. Peyton Manning - 28
18. Mark Sanchez - 28
18. Russell Wilson - 28
18. E.J. Manuel - 28
24. Joe Flacco - 27
25. Jay Cutler - 26
25. Carson Palmer - 26
25. Ryan Mallett - 26
28. Ben Roethlisberger - 25
29. RGIII - 24
30. Cam Newton - 21
31. Teddy Bridgewater - 20
31. Derek Carr - 20

It's very interesting that the top 5 QBs in the NFL are ranked #9, #11, #18, #18, and #28. But then again, intelligence isn't that important to what QBs do...right?

What's truly funny to me is that Johnny Manziel is more intelligent than Peyton Manning...right?

But the really interesting thing is that you said the average for OTs was 26. The average for starting QBs in the NFL right now is 29.6.

Maybe it's gone up for OTs too...you're more than welcome to compile those numbers and tell us if it's higher. But until then, it seems the "statistical reality" is that starting QBs have the highest Wonderlic.

So despite all the aforementioned flaws on the Wonderlic, your argument doesn't even succeed on your claimed statistical reality level.

 

[DR RAM]

OT's score high on the wonderlic, because they are DL'men with brains. Playing OL isn't that far from playing QB, in that you have to think, and make quick, independent decisions. You also have to know what every other Ol is doing, where the QB will be, what his tendencies are, what the RB's tendencies are, who to block, or pick up in a blitz situation, etc. That is one of the reasons that it is a tough position to evaluate.

 

[jrry32]

OT's score high on the wonderlic, because they are DL'men with brains. Playing OL isn't that far from playing QB, in that you have to think, and make quick, independent decisions. You also have to know what every other Ol is doing, where the QB will be, what his tendencies are, what the RB's tendencies are, who to block, or pick up in a blitz situation, etc. That is one of the reasons that it is a tough position to evaluate.

Yes, it is. I'm certainly not saying that playing OL is easy but it isn't anywhere near the mental challenge that playing QB is.

 

[DR RAM]

Yes, it is. I'm certainly not saying that playing OL is easy but it isn't anywhere near the mental challenge that playing QB is.

It's not, but there's a learning curve that is steeper than most positions in football. QB is the toughest, hands down.