A Few Plays from the Vikings Game

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jrry32

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Been promising this for a week now. Here are the two Tavon runs up the middle that many people have been criticizing as well as a play that illustrates an issue I saw with Davis.

We'll start with Tavon:
TavonFirstRun_1_zps7ada5b8d.png

I'm sorry but this is actually a pretty brilliant play by Schottenheimer here. He has Hill fake a boot-leg while having Cook and Kendricks run a flat-corner route combination to draw defenders away from the LOS. It succeeds. The defenders run with the two TEs and #93, the Vikings LDE, takes false steps up-field to defend the boot-leg before realizing it's a run. The OL is down blocking with a Barksdale-Joseph double team at the POA. They run a counter to also throw in additional misdirection and sets Harkey up with what is essentially a wham block on #54. Here's how it plays out:
TavonFirstRun_2_zps289c0d95.png

TavonFirstRun_3_zpsb60270f8.png

TavonFirstRun_4_zps3b378627.png

I think the issue is pretty obvious. Harkey doesn't succeed in the wham block. He gets stood up by the LB and fails to seal him which allows the LB to turn him and trip Austin up as Austin hits the seam. Austin ends up wiggling through the seam for a few yards but had Harkey executed the block more effectively, this is a huge play.

Here's the second run:
TavonSecondRun_1_zpsce30a2c7.png

On this play, it's more or less a straight off tackle run. You have Long reaching and down blocking Floyd, Saffold and Wells doubling the other DT, Joseph pulling around to hit the safety, Harkey kicking out to seal the LB on the edge, Kendricks power blocking the RDE, and Cook hitting the second level to seal the Mike. Here's how it went:
TavonSecondRun_3_zpsd3191454.png

As you can see here, everyone is handled except Floyd and the safety. Long is laying on his stomach after whiffing on Floyd and doesn't make much effort to get up. If Long had executed the block, Joseph pulls through and should be able to blow up the safety. I see nothing but green grass behind him. Everybody else executed their assignment and every player is blocked and handled except for the two mentioned above.

This play failure was the result of one player's failure to execute.

Here's a play that bothered me with Austin Davis:
AustinDavis_1_zpsf5ba4d54.png

This play ultimately results in a sack because Davis hesitates and doesn't pull the trigger. He does a good job on this play of sliding in the pocket to buy time and isn't sacked by the guy right behind him in the picture. However, my issue is that he has Chad Greenway stuck between the receiver on the drag and the receiver on the dig. He essentially has both guys open. He can't hesitate here. He needs to trust what he's seeing and throw the ball. Instead, you'll see what he does:
AustinDavis_2_zps284799fb.png

Instead, he tucks the ball down, tries to scramble and runs himself into a sack. I am hoping that getting starter reps and expecting to be a starter will have him more ready this week if he has to play but I'm concerned. I'm still hoping for the best but Davis really needs to speed things up between the ears and get the ball out quicker.
 

xander47

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Thank you so much! What's your take on Shotty as OC? We always knew he was great at the running game, and your analysis seems to go with it. Just seems to me hes weak in the passing game. Can't be creative with passing game so if the running game fails, the offense fails. Or is this just another lack of execution?
 

jrry32

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Thank you so much! What's your take on Shotty as OC? We always knew he was great at the running game, and your analysis seems to go with it. Just seems to me hes weak in the passing game. Can't be creative with passing game so if the running game fails, the offense fails. Or is this just another lack of execution?

I think he's an average OC. You can do better and you can do worse. I think he could do a better job of using his route combinations and formations to scheme WRs open. That's a weakness imo. I also don't like the way he's used Tavon Austin as a WR. However, he also is a better situational play-caller than he's given credit for and understands how to protect his QB(in the sense of concealing weaknesses).
 

paceram

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Been promising this for a week now. Here are the two Tavon runs up the middle that many people have been criticizing as well as a play that illustrates an issue I saw with Davis.

We'll start with Tavon:
TavonFirstRun_1_zps7ada5b8d.png

I'm sorry but this is actually a pretty brilliant play by Schottenheimer here. He has Hill fake a boot-leg while having Cook and Kendricks run a flat-corner route combination to draw defenders away from the LOS. It succeeds. The defenders run with the two TEs and #93, the Vikings LDE, takes false steps up-field to defend the boot-leg before realizing it's a run. The OL is down blocking with a Barksdale-Joseph double team at the POA. They run a counter to also throw in additional misdirection and sets Harkey up with what is essentially a wham block on #54. Here's how it plays out:
TavonFirstRun_2_zps289c0d95.png

TavonFirstRun_3_zpsb60270f8.png

TavonFirstRun_4_zps3b378627.png

I think the issue is pretty obvious. Harkey doesn't succeed in the wham block. He gets stood up by the LB and fails to seal him which allows the LB to turn him and trip Austin up as Austin hits the seam. Austin ends up wiggling through the seam for a few yards but had Harkey executed the block more effectively, this is a huge play.

Here's the second run:
TavonSecondRun_1_zpsce30a2c7.png

On this play, it's more or less a straight off tackle run. You have Long reaching and down blocking Floyd, Saffold and Wells doubling the other DT, Joseph pulling around to hit the safety, Harkey kicking out to seal the LB on the edge, Kendricks power blocking the RDE, and Cook hitting the second level to seal the Mike. Here's how it went:
TavonSecondRun_3_zpsd3191454.png

As you can see here, everyone is handled except Floyd and the safety. Long is laying on his stomach after whiffing on Floyd and doesn't make much effort to get up. If Long had executed the block, Joseph pulls through and should be able to blow up the safety. I see nothing but green grass behind him. Everybody else executed their assignment and every player is blocked and handled except for the two mentioned above.

This play failure was the result of one player's failure to execute.

Here's a play that bothered me with Austin Davis:
AustinDavis_1_zpsf5ba4d54.png

This play ultimately results in a sack because Davis hesitates and doesn't pull the trigger. He does a good job on this play of sliding in the pocket to buy time and isn't sacked by the guy right behind him in the picture. However, my issue is that he has Chad Greenway stuck between the receiver on the drag and the receiver on the dig. He essentially has both guys open. He can't hesitate here. He needs to trust what he's seeing and throw the ball. Instead, you'll see what he does:
AustinDavis_2_zps284799fb.png

Instead, he tucks the ball down, tries to scramble and runs himself into a sack. I am hoping that getting starter reps and expecting to be a starter will have him more ready this week if he has to play but I'm concerned. I'm still hoping for the best but Davis really needs to speed things up between the ears and get the ball out quicker.

Awesome Work! Thanks!
 

paceram

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Been promising this for a week now. Here are the two Tavon runs up the middle that many people have been criticizing as well as a play that illustrates an issue I saw with Davis.

We'll start with Tavon:
TavonFirstRun_1_zps7ada5b8d.png

I'm sorry but this is actually a pretty brilliant play by Schottenheimer here. He has Hill fake a boot-leg while having Cook and Kendricks run a flat-corner route combination to draw defenders away from the LOS. It succeeds. The defenders run with the two TEs and #93, the Vikings LDE, takes false steps up-field to defend the boot-leg before realizing it's a run. The OL is down blocking with a Barksdale-Joseph double team at the POA. They run a counter to also throw in additional misdirection and sets Harkey up with what is essentially a wham block on #54. Here's how it plays out:
TavonFirstRun_2_zps289c0d95.png

TavonFirstRun_3_zpsb60270f8.png

TavonFirstRun_4_zps3b378627.png

I think the issue is pretty obvious. Harkey doesn't succeed in the wham block. He gets stood up by the LB and fails to seal him which allows the LB to turn him and trip Austin up as Austin hits the seam. Austin ends up wiggling through the seam for a few yards but had Harkey executed the block more effectively, this is a huge play.

Here's the second run:
TavonSecondRun_1_zpsce30a2c7.png

On this play, it's more or less a straight off tackle run. You have Long reaching and down blocking Floyd, Saffold and Wells doubling the other DT, Joseph pulling around to hit the safety, Harkey kicking out to seal the LB on the edge, Kendricks power blocking the RDE, and Cook hitting the second level to seal the Mike. Here's how it went:
TavonSecondRun_3_zpsd3191454.png

As you can see here, everyone is handled except Floyd and the safety. Long is laying on his stomach after whiffing on Floyd and doesn't make much effort to get up. If Long had executed the block, Joseph pulls through and should be able to blow up the safety. I see nothing but green grass behind him. Everybody else executed their assignment and every player is blocked and handled except for the two mentioned above.

This play failure was the result of one player's failure to execute.

Here's a play that bothered me with Austin Davis:
AustinDavis_1_zpsf5ba4d54.png

This play ultimately results in a sack because Davis hesitates and doesn't pull the trigger. He does a good job on this play of sliding in the pocket to buy time and isn't sacked by the guy right behind him in the picture. However, my issue is that he has Chad Greenway stuck between the receiver on the drag and the receiver on the dig. He essentially has both guys open. He can't hesitate here. He needs to trust what he's seeing and throw the ball. Instead, you'll see what he does:
AustinDavis_2_zps284799fb.png

Instead, he tucks the ball down, tries to scramble and runs himself into a sack. I am hoping that getting starter reps and expecting to be a starter will have him more ready this week if he has to play but I'm concerned. I'm still hoping for the best but Davis really needs to speed things up between the ears and get the ball out quicker.

I am not the biggest Brian Schottenheimer fan (at least not as OC) but just maybe it is not all his fault (Needs the players and they need to execute).
 

jjab360

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We can win with Schotty at OC, we did it at the end of last year against all odds. We had a lot of starters rusty from not getting almost any time in preseason, but I just can't believe that what I saw last week is all this team is made of.
 

theramsruleUK

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I see what your saying about the schotty plays, but to call one of them a brilliant play is stretching it a bit.

Every play has the ability to be brilliant if it's executed flawlessly. I still think having tavon any where near the middle of the field near the LOS is strange and potentially an injury waiting to happen
 

jrry32

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I see what your saying about the schotty plays, but to call one of them a brilliant play is stretching it a bit.

Every play has the ability to be brilliant if it's executed flawlessly. I still think having tavon any where near the middle of the field near the LOS is strange and potentially an injury waiting to happen

It was brilliant. He managed to take 3+ players out of the play on a running play with a fake boot-leg and two tight ends running routes. That's brilliant.

As far as execution is concerned, this is football. Execution is everything. Don't care how good of a play-caller you are, your plays will fail if they aren't executed properly.

As far as Tavon is concerned, I think it's bogus. The kid is a football player. He's not going to get broken in half running up the middle. He did it in college against 300+ pound men. He's not a fragile child.
 

theramsruleUK

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It was brilliant. He managed to take 3+ players out of the play on a running play with a fake boot-leg and two tight ends running routes. That's brilliant.

As far as execution is concerned, this is football. Execution is everything. Don't care how good of a play-caller you are, your plays will fail if they aren't executed properly.

As far as Tavon is concerned, I think it's bogus. The kid is a football player. He's not going to get broken in half running up the middle. He did it in college against 300+ pound men. He's not a fragile child.

I'm not saying he's a fragile child, but I still see no reason to have him run from the backfield up the middle, regardless of any play design
 

CGI_Ram

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I am not the biggest Brian Schottenheimer fan (at least not as OC) but just maybe it is not all his fault (Needs the players and they need to execute).

My issue is; we've been saying the same thing for 3 years now.

It's time to get it done.
 

jrry32

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I'm not saying he's a fragile child, but I still see no reason to have him run from the backfield up the middle, regardless of any play design

I see many reasons. The biggest of which being if he only runs outside, teams aren't going to respect your ability to run up the middle with him in. The second biggest of which is that he's shown he can run up the middle.

My issue is; we've been saying the same thing for 3 years now.

It's time to get it done.

Who have we had to execute the last 2 years? You can't make a chicken sandwich out of chicken shit.
 

Athos

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I still hate lining up Austin at a standstill that deep behind the line. Takes away his explosion and open field moves.
 

jrry32

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I still hate lining up Austin at a standstill that deep behind the line. Takes away his explosion and open field moves.

I love it. Guy was studly at HB in college. It's something he does well.
 

-X-

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Sure would be nice to see them alternate between Ace/Trips/bunch formations. Those three are key formations for this offense and they always seem to produce a net positive. Just throw out all the other stuff besides the run plays and use those.
 

jrry32

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I don't know why we don't seem to use bunch formations with Tavon on the field. That's a big frustration for me with Schotty.
 

Rams0307

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This is one of the best threads I've seen in awhile, I hope you continue to post threads like this. Very informational.
 

Blue and Gold

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Good job. So good, "borrowed" by nut job from another board who whines about stills.