A Case Against Tavon Austin

[ramsince62]

A lot of thoughtful points have been made regarding this subject. That said, it appears to me that Fisher is intent upon building a team that contains both size and speed. Austin is clearly lacking in one of these areas. As for all the comments as to what Austin is or isn't capable of doing or his ability to avoid injury, etc.....I'll reserve my opinions and impressions for AFTER he plays against the big boys. We've all seen more than our share of small speedy college players who just couldn't measure up in the NFL for various reasons. We've also been recently down the road with (short) speedy WR's who couldn't hold up worth a damn when it came to game day.

Obviously Austin has the speed, but he doesn't have the size and that's equally apparent, or are we willing to gamble once again on a "one off" player who may or may not buck the odds? :what:

 

[Memphis Ram]

And there are other WRs and punt returners who could be had outside of the 1st round.

Who ya got?

As far as punt returners, my favorite would be CB Tyrann Mathieu. He averaged 15.6 yards per return in the SEC in 2011.

And there's another CB at Nevada that averaged 15.1 yards per return.

Austin's averaged 14.1 his best season (2011).

 

[Mojo Ram]

Darren Sproles is listed at 5'6" 190lbs.

Definately a more compact and durable weight than Austin,but i'm not so sure that Sproles entered the league at 190. I might look that up. *

Why are people saying that Austin has filled out his frame at the ripe old age of 22 yrs old? He cant put on 10 pounds? Sounds a little silly.

* Here's one where Sproles was listed at 5'7" 170lbs
http://oklahoma.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=2176

 

[Rabid Ram]

Darren Sproles is listed at 5'6" 190lbs.

Definately a more compact and durable weight than Austin,but i'm not so sure that Sproles entered the league at 190. I might look that up.

Why are people saying that Austin has filled out his frame at the ripe old age of 22 yrs old? He cant put on 10 pounds? Sounds a little silly.

Because if he puts on 10 more pounds he will lose some speed as a trade of and thats why people want him.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Darren Sproles is listed at 5'6" 190lbs.

Definately a more compact and durable weight than Austin,but i'm not so sure that Sproles entered the league at 190. I might look that up.

Why are people saying that Austin has filled out his frame at the ripe old age of 22 yrs old? He cant put on 10 pounds? Sounds a little silly.

He entered the league at about 187

 

[Mojo Ram]

Darren Sproles is listed at 5'6" 190lbs.

Definately a more compact and durable weight than Austin,but i'm not so sure that Sproles entered the league at 190. I might look that up.

Why are people saying that Austin has filled out his frame at the ripe old age of 22 yrs old? He cant put on 10 pounds? Sounds a little silly.

Because if he puts on 10 more pounds he will lose some speed as a trade of and thats why people want him.

Yeah i get that. "Some" speed though,how much is that? Especially for a guy who's already got freakish speed? His instincts and playmaking won't diminish.

I found a scouting report on Sproles(see link above) where he was listed at a whopping 170lbs coming out of Kansas St. He was able to bulk up and remain a little speed guy. Just sayin.

 

[jap]

Darren Sproles is listed at 5'6" 190lbs.

Definately a more compact and durable weight than Austin,but i'm not so sure that Sproles entered the league at 190. I might look that up.

Why are people saying that Austin has filled out his frame at the ripe old age of 22 yrs old? He cant put on 10 pounds? Sounds a little silly.

Because if he puts on 10 more pounds he will lose some speed as a trade of and thats why people want him.

Yeah i get that. "Some" speed though,how much is that? Especially for a guy who's already got freakish speed? His instincts and playmaking won't diminish.

I found a scouting report on Sproles(see link above) where he was listed at a whopping 170lbs coming out of Kansas St. He was able to bulk up and remain a little speed guy. Just sayin.

I don't see the point of assuming Tavon would lose speed by adding weight. Oftentimes, NFL strength and conditioning coaches aim for an optimized balance between weight, strength, speed, and quickness for their athletic charges. I myself would prefer to see this done for both Isaiah and DR: they are already small for their positions as it is; one might as well maximize what strength/weight their frames can endure without costing speed/quickness. Basically, the aim is to maximize strength without diminishing speed or quickness. Generally, players tend to await their first full pro off-season before getting involved in this kind of balanced optimization program.

 

[-X-]

And there are other WRs and punt returners who could be had outside of the 1st round.

Who ya got?

As far as punt returners, my favorite would be CB Tyrann Mathieu. He averaged 15.6 yards per return in the SEC in 2011.

And there's another CB at Nevada that averaged 15.1 yards per return.

Austin's averaged 14.1 his best season (2011).

Honey Badger, eh? Yeah, I figured that was one of the names you'd bring up.
Makes sense too. Another guy that could bolster 2 positions.

I wonder why they tried Pead back there when he had less than a dozen total returns in 4 years at Cincinnati. Janoris had 18 returns while at Florida, and Daryl had zero returns in his college career. Seems like we've been trying to find the answer at returner ever since Hakim and Horne left.

It would be great if we could shore that up once and for all, and do it with a guy who can pull double duty (Austin, Mathieu).

 

[jrry32]

Maybe you two can discuss this without all the heavy sarcasm and passive aggressiveness?
Because it is a good discussion when it doesn't sound like me and my ex-wife.

K thanks bye.

Fair enough.

Jrry, I apologize for not expressing my thoughts in a more polite and civil manner, and I also apologize if it sounds like I'm discounting your opinions on the matter. I figure it would be best to drop the matter entirely; we have our own seperate opinions, and I doubt that anything's going to change that...so, agree to disagree?

Yep, that sounds like a good idea. My apologies as well.

 

[jrry32]

Yes JAP you are on your game here my old friend! I agree with everything in this above post.

Rams have needs in so many areas:
#1-Slot Receiver
#2-Wide Receiver
#3-Punt Returner
#4-Kick Returner
#5-RB to replace #39

Ok lets see what one pick like Austin might possible fill in that above list?

Punt Returner, Kick Returner, a bonified Slot Receiver, also adds to the backfield RB cadre & adds to the wide out receiving cadre too. So in one very very small package , operational wise works so well to meet the five needs of this Ram team. Ok time to argue against that....

Well, the team's slot WR is probably slot TE Jared Cook. The new kick return rule sorta takes the sting out of that need. The team already has two undersized speed backs. And there are other WRs and punt returners who could be had outside of the 1st round.

All true MemphisRam, if TA was a none option I am looking at my next guy who is Markus Wheaton I really like this guy a lot too. Looks like if we want him we will have to use the #46 pick to get him because he will be vapor #78.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/markus-wheaton?id=2539291" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mar ... id=2539291</a>

Yep. I'm a huge fan of Markus Wheaton. Would be quite happy if we took him.

Obviously Austin has the speed, but he doesn't have the size and that's equally apparent, or are we willing to gamble once again on a "one off" player who may or may not buck the odds? :what:

Worked out for Seattle.

Also, I'm assuming much of this post is referencing Donnie Avery. Let me ask you this, how many people here wanted to gamble on "one off" DeSean Jackson that year over "one off" Donnie Avery? On other boards I was on, many people did. Trust me, it was a point continuously brought up until Devaney was fired.

And that pick would have panned out.

I think there are times where you just have to trust your eyes and break the "rules" because it's worth it. At the same time, if your eyes tell you that it's not worth it. Well, that's understandable. Everyone has a different opinion when it comes to prospects.

 

[MTRamsFan]

I know I have added absolutely nothing to the debate of who we look to draft, etc. With regard to Tavon, if Snead, Fisher and Shotty thinks he is a great fit as an offensive/special teams player then we draft him. IMO, his size should not be a factor as most might debate. Sometimes we get caught up thinking that guys have to be a certain height and weight to play in this league. If you have a guy with great skills and knows the game, he will be successful regardless of his size. Tavon definitely has the skills to play. I think he would be a great addition to this team.

It's not the size of the dog in the fight but the fight in the dog.

 

[PressureD41]

I been in the no camp on Tavon Austin from day one. I been saying use Givens in the slot and draft another tall wr w/ wheels. This draft has 1000's of them. Build up the big Uglies on both sides of the line in Rd 1.

I still predict we will end up trading back into Rd 2 from pick 22... Rd 2 has everything the Rams could want for and would start early in the rookie Campaign

 

[jrry32]

I been in the no camp on Tavon Austin from day one. I been saying use Givens in the slot and draft another tall wr w/ wheels. This draft has 1000's of them. Build up the big Uglies on both sides of the line in Rd 1.

I still predict we will end up trading back into Rd 2 from pick 22... Rd 2 has everything the Rams could want for and would start early in the rookie Campaign

IMO, moving Givens to the slot would be a mistake. He's best off on the outside.

 

[duckhunter]

Gotta agree w/Jrry. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Givens has deep speed which stretched the field vertically, moves the safeties back and challenged many safeties weakest part of their game-deep coverage. Helps the running game and the underneath routes. Givens was the only WR that had the ability to do that last season.

I don't understand the obsession with tall WRs. Tall WRs are not a panacea for the passing game but they do have their place just as much as the speed guys.

 

[CGI_Ram]

1. Austin's been durable in college

2. He's an absolute nightmare for teams to account for

3. We've got our taller WR's already; Quick, Pettis, and newly acquired Cook.

4. He's a PERFECT fit in this offense with Amendola gone

I understand the height and weight concerns, but let's face it; if he wasn't the size he is he wouldn't be the dynamic freak-show he is with the ball in his hands. In other words, he is the player he is BECAUSE OF HIS SIZE!

I draft him at 16 and don't think twice!

 

[paceram]

1. Austin's been durable in college

2. He's an absolute nightmare for teams to account for

3. We've got our taller WR's already; Quick, Pettis, and newly acquired Cook.

4. He's a PERFECT fit in this offense with Amendola gone

I understand the height and weight concerns, but let's face it; if he wasn't the size he is he wouldn't be the dynamic freak-show he is with the ball in his hands. In other words, he is the player he is BECAUSE OF HIS SIZE!

I draft him at 16 and don't think twice!

I think he would be a great addition to the Rams Offense and Special Teams and if he is there at 16 I hope the Rams pick him!

 

[A55VA6]

1. Austin's been durable in college

2. He's an absolute nightmare for teams to account for

3. We've got our taller WR's already; Quick, Pettis, and newly acquired Cook.

4. He's a PERFECT fit in this offense with Amendola gone

I understand the height and weight concerns, but let's face it; if he wasn't the size he is he wouldn't be the dynamic freak-show he is with the ball in his hands. In other words, he is the player he is BECAUSE OF HIS SIZE!

I draft him at 16 and don't think twice!

I think he would be a great addition to the Rams Offense and Special Teams and if he is there at 16 I hope the Rams pick him!

Drafting Tavon is a no brainer if he's there. If it doesn't work out.. we were still right for drafting him because of him playmaking ability. He can be special.

 

[PressureD41]

Maybe you two can discuss this without all the heavy sarcasm and passive aggressiveness?
Because it is a good discussion when it doesn't sound like me and my ex-wife.

K thanks bye.

Fair enough.

Jrry, I apologize for not expressing my thoughts in a more polite and civil manner, and I also apologize if it sounds like I'm discounting your opinions on the matter. I figure it would be best to drop the matter entirely; we have our own seperate opinions, and I doubt that anything's going to change that...so, agree to disagree?

Dude, way to step up and move on after owning your mistake!!! That's ball!!! All class buddy!!!

 

[PressureD41]

I been in the no camp on Tavon Austin from day one. I been saying use Givens in the slot and draft another tall wr w/ wheels. This draft has 1000's of them. Build up the big Uglies on both sides of the line in Rd 1.

I still predict we will end up trading back into Rd 2 from pick 22... Rd 2 has everything the Rams could want for and would start early in the rookie Campaign

IMO, moving Givens to the slot would be a mistake. He's best off on the outside.

Part of my thinking is when Danny Dola was on the sidelines last year Givens took over the Dola role and had a monster game. This is why I say draft a Justin Hunter (or tall wr/ speed) and slide Givens into the slot. The second concern is if we draft another small wr I think the Whiners & Seagulls can Physically dominate us if we have multiple small. Those two defenses are nasty so I rather draft a Justin Hunter later in the draft. At 16 take an OL or DT.

 

[duckhunter]

I been in the no camp on Tavon Austin from day one. I been saying use Givens in the slot and draft another tall wr w/ wheels. This draft has 1000's of them. Build up the big Uglies on both sides of the line in Rd 1.

I still predict we will end up trading back into Rd 2 from pick 22... Rd 2 has everything the Rams could want for and would start early in the rookie Campaign

IMO, moving Givens to the slot would be a mistake. He's best off on the outside.

Part of my thinking is when Danny Dola was on the sidelines last year Givens took over the Dola role and had a monster game. This is why I say draft a Justin Hunter (or tall wr/ speed) and slide Givens into the slot. The second concern is if we draft another small wr I think the Whiners & Seagulls can Physically dominate us if we have multiple small. Those two defenses are nasty so I rather draft a Justin Hunter later in the draft. At 16 take an OL or DT.

Don't mean to butt in but it's a good topic and it's raining/sleeting outside. Doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong. Really nows the time to discuss which way do we go since we need to add two WRs.

In general, the NFL is so cyclical in thought. They go from viewpoint A: gotta have speed at WR, gotta have speed at WR. Then the defenses match with small speed guys at CB and someone figures out that big guys can push the small speed guys aside and the small guys can't tackle em as well. Oops, the cycle changes to viewpoint B and we gotta have size gotta have size. Defenses match again over a couple of years and some small guys torches the league of tall CBs. Shyte ain't much better than women dress styles changing each year.

I've always tried to take a balanced approach to the pure speed vs big body shielders/high pointers.

I consider Cook a WR since about 75% of his reps are in the slot and 10% are outside the hash marks. I really don't see Cook changing the reps of Mulligan or Kendricks more than 15% in total. Now Shotty may use him somewhat differently but not all that much I would think. If you view Cook as a WR then we have three big WRs and Givens as your lone speed guy.

I also don't think that it's just a coincidence that the guys SB gels best with are the smaller quicker separation WRs: Clayton, Danny, Givens and Lloyd. He occasionally did very well also with the go route high pointing Alexander.

I believe if you have three speed guys with Cook, you will overwhelm the SF and Seatle big CBs. The slowest CB/S gets torched once or twice and they drop in zone. If we have any running game, and we own em since we are playing to SB strength which was deep accuracy.

In closing, there's a couple of reasons why no basketball teams field 5 7-footers on the court. They can't dribble worth a shyte for one.