4th and 1 from the 1

[Boffo97]

No, a bad call can work and still be a bad call. The pass call that lost the SD game, IMO, was a bad call. They ran it again the next game for a TD the next game and I hated the call. They could hand it to Bam Bam following Harkey and running to the left 2 times and fail and I would like the call with a tie on the line. Situational awareness. Safe. High percentage of success.

They ran TA up the middle over and over and over. Sometimes it worked. I still hated the calls. Now they are using him in sweeps and reverses. Sometimes they fail. I still love the call.

Well, I'll just say I don't tend to see massive reactions of "That was a bad call!" over calls that worked on here.

 

[RamzFanz]

Well, I'll just say I don't tend to see massive reactions of "That was a bad call!" over calls that worked on here.

I would say that the spirit of the forum discourages observations of those kinds. I would be on here half of every game pointing out play calls I don't think make sense.

I would note that many many members talked negatively about using TA up the middle when it was actually often successful.

 

[Boffo97]

I would say that the spirit of the forum discourages observations of those kinds. I would be on here half of every game pointing out play calls I don't think make sense.

I would note that many many members talked negatively about using TA up the middle when it was actually often successful.

I don't think TA up the middle is a bad call either in and of itself (although it does seem to be overcalled at times). You don't want the defense being able to mentally eliminate certain calls because we're always doing the "safe" predictable calls. You'd have an offense that would always be stopped.

Come to think of it, that's exactly why I don't think passing on 3rd and goal from the 1 is a bad call either. I see that play's failure as execution, particularly Hill's, far and away above it being a bad call. You disagree. And that's fine.

I would also opine there's a reason that football professionals make hundreds of thousands of dollars per year in these positions and no one here (me included) does.

 

[RamzFanz]

I don't think TA up the middle is a bad call either in and of itself (although it does seem to be overcalled at times). You don't want the defense being able to mentally eliminate certain calls because we're always doing the "safe" predictable calls. You'd have an offense that would always be stopped.

Come to think of it, that's exactly why I don't think passing on 3rd and goal from the 1 is a bad call either. I see that play's failure as execution, particularly Hill's, far and away above it being a bad call. You disagree. And that's fine.

I would also opine there's a reason that football professionals make hundreds of thousands of dollars per year in these positions and no one here (me included) does.

How much did the Rams coaching before Fisher make?

 

[Boffo97]

How much did the Rams coaching before Fisher make?

Probably something comparable.

But if anyone here COULD earn hundreds of thousands a year (if not millions for head coaches), they WOULD be.

 

[RhodyRams]

Probably something comparable.

But if anyone here COULD earn hundreds of thousands a year (if not millions for head coaches), they WOULD be.

I could do that easily, but really dont care to lower my standard of living LOL

 

[RamzFanz]

Probably something comparable.

But if anyone here COULD earn hundreds of thousands a year (if not millions for head coaches), they WOULD be.

But you agree that getting paid for it doesn't make you always right?

 

[Boffo97]

But you agree that getting paid for it doesn't make you always right?

Not always, no.

But I still disagree that it was some obvious bad call to pass it on 3rd and goal from the 1 rather than run it. If people didn't have a mad on for the OC, I don't think it even gets discussed, let alone gets as much virtual ink as it does. They went for the less predictable call, and the execution didn't work out. Stuff happens. End of story.

 

[RamzFanz]

Not always, no.

But I still disagree that it was some obvious bad call to pass it on 3rd and goal from the 1 rather than run it. If people didn't have a mad on for the OC, I don't think it even gets discussed, let alone gets as much virtual ink as it does. They went for the less predictable call, and the execution didn't work out. Stuff happens. End of story.

Well, at least we can agree they aren't always right.

 

[Boffo97]

Well, at least we can agree they aren't always right.

Well, of course. No one on Earth is always right.

Except me, of course.

 

[beej]

But if you don't make the TD, the game is over.

The way our D was playing we could have got a pick 6 after the FG and won the game that way.

That's what I was thinking and they had a 3rd string QB in there

 

[RamzFanz]

Not always, no.

But I still disagree that it was some obvious bad call to pass it on 3rd and goal from the 1 rather than run it. If people didn't have a mad on for the OC, I don't think it even gets discussed, let alone gets as much virtual ink as it does. They went for the less predictable call, and the execution didn't work out. Stuff happens. End of story.

It was 2nd and 1.

I'll give you my reasons that the second Cunningham went in motion I started yelling NOOOOOOO!

OT was in their hip pocket. The game was on the line. Playoff hopes were on the line. The only thing that could end all hope of a win was a TO. They are starting a backup QB. The O line sucks.

They had 2 downs to go one yard. Harkey and Cunningham were in the backfield. I said it before this game and I'll say it again, I would trust Cunningham to get a yard all game every game. Harkey is a very good run blocker. The first pick of the draft is out there and he's there to be a road grader.

I don't think the element of surprise overcomes the numerous risks. Besides, the moment Cunningham went into motion, emptying the backfield, the entire defense knew it was a pass so there was no element of surprise.

Hill went through his progressions left to right and threw it directly to the open receiver. What part of the execution did he not complete? Was Britt open? Check. Did he throw it right where Britt needed him to? Check. That's execution.

A free floating defender hid on the opposite side of where Hill started his progressions and waited patiently and when he saw Britt come open jumped the route. That's exactly why passing on a very short field is dangerous. Lots of very good defenders in a very small space all aware it's a pass. You can't expect any QB to track defenders that aren't even in their field of vision when he throws. There IS such thing as a really good defensive play and that was one of them.

Thursday was a different story. While most of Hills incompletes were from o line failure, I counted 5 really bad passes.

 

[Boffo97]

It was 2nd and 1.

I'll give you my reasons that the second Cunningham went in motion I started yelling NOOOOOOO!

OT was in their hip pocket. The game was on the line. Playoff hopes were on the line. The only thing that could end all hope of a win was a TO. They are starting a backup QB. The O line sucks.

They had 2 downs to go one yard. Harkey and Cunningham were in the backfield. I said it before this game and I'll say it again, I would trust Cunningham to get a yard all game every game. Harkey is a very good run blocker. The first pick of the draft is out there and he's there to be a road grader.

I don't think the element of surprise overcomes the numerous risks. Besides, the moment Cunningham went into motion, emptying the backfield, the entire defense knew it was a pass so there was no element of surprise.

Hill went through his progressions left to right and threw it directly to the open receiver. What part of the execution did he not complete? Was Britt open? Check. Did he throw it right where Britt needed him to? Check. That's execution.

A free floating defender hid on the opposite side of where Hill started his progressions and waited patiently and when he saw Britt come open jumped the route. That's exactly why passing on a very short field is dangerous. Lots of very good defenders in a very small space all aware it's a pass. You can't expect any QB to track defenders that aren't even in their field of vision when he throws. There IS such thing as a really good defensive play and that was one of them.

Thursday was a different story. While most of Hills incompletes were from o line failure, I counted 5 really bad passes.

The O Line sucking would be my main argument as to the run not being a guarantee, even with Cunningham and Harkey. They can't do it themselves.

I don't see "numerous risks" in a short pass from the 1, even with a backup QB, since he's supposed to be the veteran who won't turn the ball over. And I don't agree on the execution since from what I saw, he threw it right to the defender, which I'm pretty sure wasn't in the drawn up play. If that was the plan, then I want Schotty fired now.

Although I will say if your argument here includes the idea that Hill isn't very good (implied by pointing out it was a backup QB and that that should have stopped the notion of passing for the TD), that does invalidate a number of your other posts.

The call wasn't the high odds call. I grant you that. That does not make it a bad call. No successful team will ever always make the predictable call. If it worked, no one would have been talking about it, and probably not even mentioning Schottenheimer at all.

But, at this point, nothing's going to change either of our minds on this.

 

[RamzFanz]

The O Line sucking would be my main argument as to the run not being a guarantee, even with Cunningham and Harkey. They can't do it themselves.

I don't see "numerous risks" in a short pass from the 1, even with a backup QB, since he's supposed to be the veteran who won't turn the ball over. And I don't agree on the execution since from what I saw, he threw it right to the defender, which I'm pretty sure wasn't in the drawn up play. If that was the plan, then I want Schotty fired now.

Although I will say if your argument here includes the idea that Hill isn't very good (implied by pointing out it was a backup QB and that that should have stopped the notion of passing for the TD), that does invalidate a number of your other posts.

The call wasn't the high odds call. I grant you that. That does not make it a bad call. No successful team will ever always make the predictable call. If it worked, no one would have been talking about it, and probably not even mentioning Schottenheimer at all.

But, at this point, nothing's going to change either of our minds on this.

But it was predictable. They emptied the backfield.

I've never said Hill was better than a good backup so... ? Nor have I ever said he wouldn't turn it over, especially on a short field when they broadcast to the world it's a pass. Al QBs turn the ball over and all are suseptible to a good defense on a short field.

Yes, two runs for a yard are not guaranteed but they are historically much more successful which is why a goal line stand is so impressive. Still, Cunningham behind Harkey running toward Robinson is pretty enticing.

You should rewatch the throw if you think he threw it directly to him. It just didn't happen. The defender lurked off to the right and ran into the play at the last second. He saw Britt come open and sprung. It was a great play and one few defenders have the patience to execute so well when it appears the ball is going to the other side of the field.

The risks of a run, assuming you'll accept overtime as a plan B, are a fumble we lose. That's rare. The Rams don't lose many fumbles from RBs.

The risk of a pass on a short field behind a bad o line are a strip sack, a batted ball that goes up and lands in a heavily defended end zone, a tipped ball that goes up and lands in a heavily defended end zone, a bad throw that gets intercepted, a good throw that gets intercepted, and a catch with a big hit that fumbles.

Youde really choose throw with OT in your pocket, the season on the line, against a good D and broadcast it? I wouldn't.

 

[Boffo97]

Youde really choose throw with OT in your pocket, the season on the line, against a good D and broadcast it? I wouldn't.

The season was NOT "on the line". Wishful thinking aside, we were done long before then.

Like I said, we're not going to agree on this. But I honestly do think that if there wasn't a pre-existing mad-on for Schottenheimer amongst Internet fans, no one would be talking about the call. Definitely, if it worked, no one would be talking about it.

But I just refuse to call the call bad just because it didn't work and wasn't predictable (by which it wasn't just the run up the middle, you can do lots of different plays even with an empty backfield). I'll let it go at that since at this point, we're just competing for the last word.

 

[-X-]

we're just competing for the last word.

Too late.

"Word."

 

[Corbin]

But it was predictable. They emptied the backfield.

.

Play was predictable. When it was 3rd and 1 and tackle was made before they lined up and were just getting in the huddle I called to the T V. " Run it on a power sweep or misdirection Schotty, don't do a predictable pass on short and goal as always" They break the huddle and instantly knew this was what they were going to do. So predictable.

 

[MrMotes]

Play was predictable. When it was 3rd and 1 and tackle was made before they lined up and were just getting in the huddle I called to the T V. " Run it on a power sweep or misdirection Schotty, don't do a predictable pass on short and goal as always" They break the huddle and instantly knew this was what they were going to do. So predictable.

AZ certainly found it predictable. They were all over it...

 

[RamzFanz]

AZ certainly found it predictable. They were all over it...

ALL over it.

What bothers me most isn't that it was such a bad call, but that it showed a complete lack of trust in Bam Bam to get a single yard, with two downs, after the first pick of the draft went to a run blocker, and when both Harkey and Cunningham have played so well. It's like he thinks his play calling is more effective than their ability.

I would agree with the call if Bam Bam, Harkey, Robinson, and Saffold had demonstrated in the past they couldn't do it. That's just not the case.

 

[-X-]

What bothers me most isn't that it was such a bad call, but that it showed a complete lack of trust in Bam Bam to get a single yard, with two downs

That pass play was a play-fake, and Cunningham got absolutely stuffed on it. Two plays earlier Mason (who runs just as hard) got stuffed too. There's very little guarantee that any of our RBs would have gotten a yard in that situation. In fact, if the situation was reversed, would you expect the Rams to give up a rushing TD on the one yard line? And wouldn't you also be in fear of a fake that sent two TE's out on drag routes?