49ers release Torrey Smith

[InnovatedMind]

I hope we do. If he doesn't pan out, that won't speak well of Goff. Because Smith did quite well with Flacco.



Marshall routinely posts worse drop rates than Torrey Smith. And Stills gives you the same player at almost double the cost based on the rumors.

When has Torrey ever amounted to a Top 5 receiver in the NFL? Great, Marshall has more drops, but he's a better all around player with a proven track record of being ELITE. Elite and Torrey Smith do not belong in the same sentence. We're looking for that elusive #1 receiver.

Stills gives us the same player NOW, with potential to be A LOT BETTER in the coming years. We're talking about building up an offense, not a stop gap that may not pan out.

 

[Ram_Rally]

Glad you asked...

Garcon/Marshall, Stills, Tavon, Zay/JuJu, Cooper, Quick/Spruce, Thomas

We need people with great hands, who aren't afraid to go up the middle and secure a pass for our rookie QB. We need stability. We have enough speed, we need people who can catch contested balls. Torrey doesn't really fill a need when we have others that we are trying to develop into possibly the same role and possibly even better than an aging player with some deeply ingrained bad habits.

I agree with some but I think you've underrated smith. I don't see why we can't sign him as our number 2. He was highly productive in Baltimore and much better than what we've had in recent years other than a one year smash from britt.

 

[InnovatedMind]

I agree with some but I think you've underrated smith. I don't see why we can't sign him as our number 2. He was highly productive in Baltimore and much better than what we've had in recent years other than a one year smash from britt.

Why can't Tavon be #2? What's so wrong with McVay and the brilliant staff working on a player we already have, into as good if not better option than Torrey is now? The tools are all there... What we need is dedicated staff to take some of our receivers under their wing. (something that Fisher probably NEVER did).

Maybe I've underrated Torrey, but I think it's a useless move when we already have Tavon and Pharoh to coach up into that role.

 

[jrry32]

When has Torrey ever amounted to a Top 5 receiver in the NFL? Great, Marshall has more drops, but he's a better all around player with a proven track record of being ELITE. Elite and Torrey Smith do not belong in the same sentence. We're looking for that elusive #1 receiver.

Stills gives us the same player NOW, with potential to be A LOT BETTER in the coming years. We're talking about building up an offense, not a stop gap that may not pan out.

Marshall was a better all around WR. But you wrote Smith off due to drops. It doesn't make a lot of sense to advocate signing a guy who drops more passes. Do drops matter or not?

Stills gives us maybe an equivalent player (Torrey's production in Baltimore dwarfs Stills's) with the potential to be better...but Stills is rumored to cost $10 million to $12 million per year.

Give me Torrey Smith at $7 million to $8 million per year any day over Stills at that. There's just as much potential that Stills won't pan out as Torrey Smith. But there's a lot less risk.

I get that you don't want Smith, but you're not being consistent in your reasoning.

 

[jrry32]

Why can't Tavon be #2? What's so wrong with McVay and the brilliant staff working on a player we already have, into as good if not better option than Torrey is now? The tools are all there... What we need is dedicated staff to take some of our receivers under their wing. (something that Fisher probably NEVER did).

Maybe I've underrated Torrey, but I think it's a useless move when we already have Tavon and Pharoh to coach up into that role.

Tavon hasn't shown any ability to play that role. I'd love for Tavon to step up, but I'm not preparing for the best. I'm preparing for the worst.

 

[Ram_Rally]

Why can't Tavon be #2? What's so wrong with McVay and the brilliant staff working on a player we already have, into as good if not better option than Torrey is now? The tools are all there... What we need is dedicated staff to take some our receivers under their wing.

Maybe I've underrated Torrey, but I think it's a useless move when we already have Tavon and Pharoh to coach up into that role.

That's probably where we disconnect. I don't see tavon as a number 2 reciever. Also, Pharoah didn't show me enough to be completely confident in his game. But we will see

 

[InnovatedMind]

Marshall was a better all around WR. But you wrote Smith off due to drops. It doesn't make a lot of sense to advocate signing a guy who drops more passes. Do drops matter or not?

Stills gives us maybe an equivalent player (Torrey's production in Baltimore dwarfs Stills's) with the potential to be better...but Stills is rumored to cost $10 million to $12 million per year.

Give me Torrey Smith at $7 million to $8 million per year any day over Stills at that. There's just as much potential that Stills won't pan out as Torrey Smith. But there's a lot less risk.

I get that you don't want Smith, but you're not being consistent in your reasoning.

Drops do matter... but to compare a player with way more usage rate to a player that doesn't come close... and then say "Hey, Player A has more drops" ... well no shit, he's way more active in that offense. It's a biased / strawman comparison. That's what I have issues with.

 

[jrry32]

Drops do matter... but to compare a player with way more usage rate to a player that doesn't come close... and then say "Hey, Player A has more drops" ... well no crap, he's way more active in that offense. It's a biased / strawman comparison. That's what I have issues with.

No, it's not. I said DROP RATES (proof below). That takes into account the fact that Marshall has more opportunities.
Torrey Smith's drop rates over the past 5 years:
2016: 4.1%
2015: 4.8%
2014: 6.5%
2013: 5.1%
2012: 2.7%

Brandon Marshall's drops rates over the past 5 years:
2016: 6.3%
2015: 5.8%
2014: 3.8%
2013: 7.3%
2012: 5.7%

Marshall posted a higher drop rate in four out of the past five years. He posted a higher average drop rate over that five year period.

I'm fine with the idea that we can accept drops from productive WRs. I agree. What I take issue with is writing Smith off because of his drops while not taking issue with Marshall's drops. It's just not consistent.

Anyways, you don't want Smith. I do. I don't see either of us changing our opinions.

EDIT:

Marshall routinely posts worse drop rates than Torrey Smith.

 

[InnovatedMind]

No, it's not. I said DROP RATES. That takes into account the fact that Marshall has more opportunities.
Torrey Smith's drop rates over the past 5 years:
2016: 4.1%
2015: 4.8%
2014: 6.5%
2013: 5.1%
2012: 2.7%

Brandon Marshall's drops rates over the past 5 years:
2016: 6.3%
2015: 5.8%
2014: 3.8%
2013: 7.3%
2012: 5.7%

Marshall posted a higher drop rate in four out of the past five years. He posted a higher average drop rate over that five year period.

I'm fine with the idea that we can accept drops from productive WRs. I agree. What I take issue with is writing Smith off because of his drops while not taking issue with Marshall's drops. It's just not consistent.

Anyways, you don't want Smith. I do. I don't see either of us changing our opinions.

We're both highly opinionated sir ... I can see your point... but I think there's a higher ceiling with Marshall/Garcon + Stills rather than Marshall/Garcon + Torrey.

At the end of the day, I would support any player we get and hope for the best. If it's Torrey, I'll even buy a Jersey and hope he changes my mind.

 

[jrry32]

We're bullish sir ... I ccan see your point... but I think there's a higher ceiling with Marshall/Garcon + Stills rather than Marshall/Garcon + Torrey.

At the end of the day, I would support any player we get and hope for the best. If it's Torrey, I'll even buy a Jersey and hope he changes my mind.

The problem is that we can't afford Marshall/Garcon and Stills if we want to get OL help in FA. I think we should prioritize the OL in FA. We can grab a top OL FA and still grab a guy like Torrey Smith or Pierre Garcon while having money left over to add some bargain talent. If we grab a top OL FA and grab Stills at his rumored price, we have no money left over.

Our assets are limited. Stills costs significantly more money and is a much riskier signing because he'll want a longer contract with more guaranteed money. I don't think it's the right move to make when we have a substitute who costs much less on a shorter contract with much less guaranteed money.

Now, if Torrey Smith costs the same, that changes the calculus.

 

[JackDRams]

We're both highly opinionated sir ... I can see your point... but I think there's a higher ceiling with Marshall/Garcon + Stills rather than Marshall/Garcon + Torrey.

At the end of the day, I would support any player we get and hope for the best. If it's Torrey, I'll even buy a Jersey and hope he changes my mind.

It don't matter. We can't afford Garçon and Stills. We might be able to afford Garçon and Smith. However, I'm a different horse then you guys. I'm the Garçon and Woods horse.

 

[Ram65]

I'd go after Torrey Smith. He's at least as good as Stills (I say he's better, but Stills is younger and still has potential) and won't be asking $12 million per year. We might be able to get him on a "prove it" contract. He'd fill the DeSean Jackson role in our offense.

He has inconsistent hands, but they're much better than you're claiming. Torrey Smith's drop rates over the past 5 years:
2016: 4.1%
2015: 4.8%
2014: 6.5%
2013: 5.1%
2012: 2.7%

Source: https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2016/

Fact is that with the Ravens over his first four years in the NFL, he averaged 900 yards and 8 TDs per year. That's better than Stills. Considering his price tag should be much less, I'm all for Smith.

He's also shown the ability to do this:

View: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000125491/Torrey-Smith-highlights

I though he had questionable hands. I think they are small for a WR.

If the Rams like him why go prove it. One good year and he is gone. He would take up a spot on the roster from one of the young guys so sign him up. I would go three years and maybe a 4th at a reasonable price. I'm not sure what it would be but 5-7M a year. His numbers are similar to Britts (17 YPC career average) with more TDs. He did have Flacco so that helped him. Throw out the Whiner numbers. I agree he gives the Rams the top end deep speed WR. Rams could get a possession WR in the draft. JuJu comes to mind. This would allow the Rams to spend money on a big OL free agent.

 

[jrry32]

I though he had questionable hands. I think they are small for a WR.

If the Rams like him why go prove it. One good year and he is gone. He would take up a spot on the roster from one of the young guys so sign him up. I would go three years and maybe a 4th at a reasonable price. I'm not sure what it would be but 5-7M a year. His numbers are similar to Britts (17 YPC career average) with more TDs. He did have Flacco so that helped him. Throw out the Whiner numbers. I agree he gives the Rams the top end deep speed WR. Rams could get a possession WR in the draft. JuJu comes to mind. This would allow the Rams to spend money on a big OL free agent.

We could choose not to go prove it. But the longer the deal, the more money and risk is involved. If it's a "prove it" deal, you can get him to take a little less per year since he'll have another bite at the apple next year in FA. Plus, he'll be motivated all year to make the big bucks in FA (i.e., produce for us).

There's good and bad with each. I'd be down for a 3-4 year deal. But I'd also be good with a 1 year "prove it" type deal.

 

[shaunpinney]

Tavon hasn't shown any ability to play that role. I'd love for Tavon to step up, but I'm not preparing for the best. I'm preparing for the worst.

I hope on this occasion that you're wrong

 

[shaunpinney]

I think we should prioritize the OL in FA. We can grab a top OL FA and still grab a guy like Torrey Smith or Pierre Garcon while having money left over to add some bargain talent.

I'm totally with you here, If we had Garçon, OL and someone like CB Kavon Webster I'd be a happy bunny

 

[CGI_Ram]

I'd definitely kick the tires on Smith.

We need to patch some areas by FA. He fits the description of possibly doing that, in combination with other moves.

 

[jrry32]

I'm totally with you here, If we had Garçon, OL and someone like CB Kavon Webster I'd be a happy bunny

I'm not sold on Kayvon Webster. He hasn't had a major role in a few years, and the last time he did, he didn't look good. He might have improved since then, but it's a very risk proposition.

 

[shaunpinney]

I'm not sold on Kayvon Webster. He hasn't had a major role in a few years, and the last time he did, he didn't look good. He might have improved since then, but it's a very risk proposition.

I hear you, but, don't think he's a lost cause just yet, and he's only 26 (I think), would know Phillips' D and would be cheap on a 'prove it' deal. I'd rather get a decent WR and OLer, pick him up and with the draft nice and deep at DB, we should be good for someone decent in the 3rd...